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View Full Version : Possible damaged by others DW734 - help!



Matt Day
11-29-2009, 6:28 PM
Hi all,

The root of the problem here is a machinery based question, but you need the background to help me answer it.

I'm currently renting from a long time friend (and have been for about 6 years, though I'm moving West in a bout 6 months), who has finally decided to have a contractor come in and fix up a bunch of house issues (rot from water infiltration, replace a clear plastic roof that was in dire need of it, and repaint the house) after the issues have been lingering for a long, long time. It's not my place to do this work for him, but I digress...

So he decides to have them start about a week and a half ago, and they basically are working in and outside the house and I figure everything was going okay. One day they were finishing up when I got home from work, and I chatted with them for a few minutes and quickly found out they needed a board thickness planed to allow the door to close properly. Unbeknownst to them, I happened to have one and I offered to do it for them and did. They were happy to finish, I was happy to help out. Afterwards I thought, I better make sure they don't get the impression they can use my babies, uh, I mean tools, so I very nicely approached the two guys (including the boss) I talked to and made sure they knew that my tools were off limits.

The next time I was in the shop was a couple days later and I noticed that the adjustment on my planer was acting very strange (the knob on the top was loose, and it was hard to make vertical adjustments of the cutting head). Honestly the first thing that I thought was that those guys were using my stuff, but I told myself I was being pesimistic and assuming. UNTIL, a couple days later on Wednesday when my fiance and I were literally leaving the house to drive to Cleveland my landlord (and friend mind you) were at the house and I mentioned my concern. A worker who was next to us happened to chime in "you know when that planer thing turns on it makes a heck of a rattle?" :mad::mad::mad:!!!!! I said what??? (It's the belt BTW) So my heart starts beating faster and I'm getting pretty fired up and ready to start screaming and throwing these guys out of the house but I keep my cool, make sure I gather the facts from this guy and find out they were using my jointer and planer and didn't know they weren't supposed to. I told my landlord that was BS, and he agreed and was just as fired up because he knows how I am about my tools and he told the boss the same thing - no using the tools. We approached the boss and told him basically WTH (heck), and he responds with "hey what's the big deal how much could you damage a tool just using it a few times?" So that's obviously not the point, a 5 year old should know if their told not to use something they don't use it. This guy is a blockhead, and my landlord agrees.

I try to avoid confrontation with the boss man but eventually get a bit in his face and tell him that the planer head lock bar probably wasn't disengaged before the adjustment knob was turned, not to mention that it wasn't the point.

So, I'm guessing that's what happened. They forced the adjustment knob without knowing they head had to be unlocked, and likely screwed something up. How do I go about inspecting the planer (DW734) to check for allignment issues? Part of me wants to have them buy a new one simly on principle. They also used my jointer (Shop Fox W1741) which I know because the light covering of dust was goin and the fence was adjusted.

What do you all think is the best way to approach this? My landlord and I spoke about holding retainage in the amount of a new planer if I find it's not working as it was, and I'd probably ask for the cost of jointer knives as well after I inspect it.

I'm not even going to mention the facts that they are shady characters to begin with (low bidders I'm sure:rolleyes:) who are inside our house all day (and through Thanksgiving weekend we just found out!:mad:), and that they almost let our cat escape.

Thanks guys, I look forward to your responses.

Aaron Berk
11-29-2009, 6:34 PM
:eek::eek::eek::eek:

Dude you deserve a new planer.

No reason to inspect it, they owe you a new one, and if your a really swell guy you could toss em your old one. But that would be totally up to you.

You need your toy replaced, not repaired. Unauthorized use, and damage of equipment is grounds for replacement in my book. cut and dried no options


Hope it works out for you.

Gary Breckenridge
11-29-2009, 11:51 PM
Lighten up Dude. We all know that workmen are entitled to drink the booze, use the tools and have their way with the wife when the owner isn't around.:rolleyes:

Michael Schwartz
11-30-2009, 12:48 AM
If it weren't grand theft auto I would take there truck for a little off road joyriding while their using your tools after you told them not to.

No means no, and If there is any damage I would make them pay you for it before you make the final payment on the job. If you told them your tools and shop were off limits they were trespassing. Anybody with any respect would ask for permission as well, and most contractors I know are very sensitive to this and won't even use your bathroom without asking first. From the sound of the situation you have a witness to your statements to them that your tools were off limits, but I would either record (if legal) or get somebody to witness them admitting to using your tools, incase they decide to take you to small claims court or place a lien due to withheld payment, or if you decide you have to get the police involved.

Just from the standpoint of liability I wouldn't let anybody use my tools in my shop without supervision.

I have seen what some guys will do, I witnessed a guy once stand a dirty nasty hollow core door up on the bed of a jointer to plane it down. Saw a guy in the same shop as well put a box with screws in it through the planer, planing the face with the screws in it. Thankfully they were countersunk deep enough or he didn't take an overly aggressive cut. :mad:

Greg Wittler
11-30-2009, 1:15 AM
Matt, that really sucks, even my BP feels a little high from reading about your ordeal. I just got in a argument with my sister earlier today as she wanted to use my laptop, because she fried the family computer for the 3rd time this year. Oh here fry mine too!(she clicks on every flashing banner she sees online, like a moth to a light bulb) She almost ruined my boat years ago from shooting a wave of water into it from a jet ski and on the same trip overheated the motor from driving through debris and clogging the intake, and on different trip they fried the motor in my bronco because when they stopped for gas 30 miles from the lake, one of the kids was screwing around between the front of the boat and the back of my truck and set the brakes when they most likely were jumping over the tongue and caught it on their foot on the cable. All she said was "their is something wrong with your truck we had to pull over 6 times before we got to the lake." People will never treat your tools the way you treat them because they don't have any of their own money tied up in them. I now have a different boat and she doesn't know about it. My brother in law knows about it and has been on it, but I will not tell her as she will find some reason that I should let her wreck it too. Hopefully in a year and a half when my niece is 18 my poor brother in law will run far away and not look back. Sorry to get off topic. That would be cool if you could get the money for it, wish could remember where I saw it but somewhere on the net had one of the DeWalt planers and the price that was greatly inflated like close to $800. You could tell them that is where you bought it and make them pay top dollar for it or better yet give you the cash. Would love to know if you get them to replace it.

Shoplet.com $992.80 Here is the link:
http://www.shoplet.com/office/db/SEPTLS115DW734.html

Matt Day
11-30-2009, 8:53 AM
Thanks for the replies so far guys! I was so worn out by the 9 hour drive home yesterday and traffic that I wasn't in the mood to deal with this ordeal anymore, so I'll get in the shop today and check out the planer more. I think that if I verify that it doesn't work like it used to in any way, I'm asking for a new one. Whether that comes via them simply buying me a new one, or my landlord holding retainage in this amount, I don't really care as long as I get what I deserve.

Simply put, these guys just aren't that bright and probably are a few cards short, which makes me feel for them a little bit. But, the fact that they are professionals that got hired who can't follow a simple direction and don't understand the meaning of "consequences", I won't feel any remorse putting them out $500 or whatever a new one costs.

Again, thanks for the advice so far. I didn't know if I should feel bad asking for a new tool, but I don't want to suffer from these nimrods' ignorance.

Aaron Berk
11-30-2009, 9:02 AM
Don't feel bad asking for a new tool, as long as you keep it 100% honest. What ever the going rate is for the EXACT same saw is, that's your asking price. And give em the option of finding one them selves and bringing it to you New In Box.

Charles Murray Ohio
11-30-2009, 9:09 AM
I agree with the above comments. I always considered my tools to be a personal item, like a toothbrush. Ask boss to use his toothbrush to clean your toilet, after all just a few minutes of brushing won’t do much damage. At least none you can see.

Walt Caza
11-30-2009, 1:55 PM
Hi Matt,
Sorry for your nightmare.

My quick thoughts, boiled down are:
-it is not just an issue of unauthorized use

-it is unauthorized use, by unfamiiar and perhaps untrained machine operators,
causing unmitigated violation, similar to rape and
physical damage to the hijacked tools.

Knowing my love and care of my own precious tools, I would not hesitate
to throw in mental and emotional damage. Plus an icky feeling.

Further insult is piled on top, when you are keen enough to recognize a
possible threat, and deliberately and diligently take action to avoid such trouble.
The Boss man's misguided and dismissive response is a symptom which reveals the true illness.
The world will be a better place, when he has a chance to gain a life lesson about respect and common decency,
by being forced to make repairations.

Bottom line:
-they used, despite being instructed not to
-likely they misused by overlooking the locking bar
-who knows how your cutting edges were treated?
-they caused harm and are responsible
-the tool-use is not being disputed

Hope you find time to keep pushing all the way to some justice.
This distasteful situation has even ruffled my own feathers...
Sorry man,
Walt

ps Solid and insightful definition of unmitigated:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/unmitigated

Right on point. Just like Charles M.'s clever toothpaste parallel.
Well played, Sir!

Dan Manning
11-30-2009, 7:54 PM
Just my .02 worth,
What would have happened if the person(s), who was not allowed to use the tool(s), was to have been injured, or caused damage to property other than the tool(s)? One can only safeguard tools/equipment so far, and after that, well,?
Just a thought...

Dean Karavite
11-30-2009, 8:08 PM
Matt, I hear you. I would be mad too, damaged or not. We all work hard on our shops and each new tool is a big deal, from expensive power tools to hand tools or even clamps and bits. I say make them pay for a brand new machine. Don't waste a minute trying to fix up the old one, they can have it.

FYI, my neighbor just fired a painter after finding missing things around the house including a coin jar. When confronted about the coin jar the painter actually had the nerve and stupidity to say, "What was it, $50 bucks or something, big deal." Another person who hired this guy found cocaine on a table. I know many contractors are honest hard working people, but a few can really ruin it for people who want to fix up their house. Nobody, no matter who it is, works in or on my house unattended by me.

P.S. I have the same planer, just bought it a month ago.

george wilson
11-30-2009, 9:02 PM
I had the same type problem with my "Christian" contractors when getting my shop built. We weren't living in this house yet,but many of my tools were here because we were coming out and doing renovation work. I came home one day to find my shovel out in the mud of the new foundation with the handle broken off. Another time my new crowbar was used and left out in the rain.

I was promised replacement of the shovel,but never got it. I HATE DEALING WITH CONTRACTORS!!!!!!!!!!! Why they didn't have their own tools is what I've wondered. And,it wasn't the workmen who were using them. It was one of their bosses.

Peter Quinn
11-30-2009, 9:03 PM
That sucks. I'd be livid. That is a compromising position you are in to say the least. Does your landlord/friend have a contract with these folks? By all means look at that contract, perhaps speak to an attorney if you can do so without it costing you more than the planer costs. Perhaps you can have your friend reduce the amount he pays these people by the cost of the planer and give it to them at the end of the work. If they put a ladder through a window they would be buying that for sure. Why not your planer?

All the machines in my shop have a lock out/tag out box more for safety around the children, but could be used for keeping out bigger pests too. You shouldn't have to, but is there any way you can secure your equipment for the remainder of the job to keep the honest people honest?

JohnT Fitzgerald
11-30-2009, 9:15 PM
I would suggest reading any contract in place, particularly any part that requires them to have insurance. You might want to get them to admit (in writing) that they damaged it, or some other 'proof' - otherwise it's all hearsay. Then, file a grievance with the BBB, and try to file a claim against their insurance. Or - tell them you're going to, unless they make you happy (i.e. replace the planer).

Rod Sheridan
11-30-2009, 9:20 PM
Hi Matt, that is very disappointing.

You should have it repaired at their expense........Regards, Rod.

Gary Herrmann
11-30-2009, 9:29 PM
I hope the landlord and the contractors do right by you. Good luck.

Matt Day
11-30-2009, 10:55 PM
Here's my plan. I need to establish that the planer is damaged. When the planer is down to plane about a 1/2" - 1" board, the head very very sticky when I try to move it up higher. Like almost having to use 2 hands on the height adjustment knob. Could this be due to the theads of of the head being dirty (which they are), or could something be bent due to using it without the head lock disengaged?

I think I need to run this by a professional repair person. There's a repair center in town I'm going to talk to, and I'm going to call a Dewalt factory service center and talk to a Dewalt person.

Ken Fitzgerald
11-30-2009, 10:59 PM
Matt,

The problem I see is proving they damaged it and getting them to replace it. If they are the type who will use it without permission, I suspect they will deny using or damaging it too.

Without them freely admitting it and offering to make it right, you are probably stuck with a damaged planer.

Good luck!

Mike Cruz
12-01-2009, 8:52 AM
Hmmmm, so what gun do you own?....

Heather Thompson
12-01-2009, 12:21 PM
Matt,

This is a no brainer, you were nice enough to help these guys out in the beginning by dimensioning some stock for them and you told the boss and employees that they were not to use your tools themselves. Your thickness planer is not working properly and an employee and the boss both acknowledged that the tools were indeed used and your friend/landlord was there to witness this. I would not have walked away at this point, I would have demanded at that time that the planer be replaced and new knives for the jointer be purchased, immediately. You should also be provided with the reciept so if there are any issues with the new equipment it will not be a problem with exchange and you will also be able to access the warrenty from Dewalt.

Since these people did not have the integrity to respect your instructions in the first place, I would do a thorough inventory of your personal belongings to be sure they did not grow legs.

If I were your friend/landlord I would boot these guys off the job, there are plenty of contractors out there that are looking for work. When integrity is lost it is very hard to get back, it is a lesson these guys need to learn.

Heather

Ron Bontz
12-01-2009, 12:36 PM
Given the high cost of legal fees, etc. , I would approach the "boss" in a civil manner and explain that if he replaces the tool no harm done and he can have the old one. If not, then find his clients, warn them, post in the papers warning people of his destruction of your property, etc. Just the facts of course. You have a witness and he has to pay legal fees as well. It is a matter of principle to me. Replacing your planer is a lot cheaper than legal fees. Best of luck.

Matt Day
12-02-2009, 9:15 AM
Well I met with the contractor and my landlord yesterday, and simply asked "what tools did you use in the shop and how did you use them." The guy said he only used the jointer (proven by poplar shavings from not using the DC) but that he didn't touch the planer. He didn't make any adjustments to the jointer, just turned it on and ran a board across a few times. He was calling the jointer the planer, which is part of the reason I assuming he really did mean the planer, but also because the planer was not working smoothly.

After I asked him that, that's all I wanted to hear from him and asked him to take a hike. I then talked to my landlord/friend and said that I needed to further inspect the planer to see if anything was bent, scratched, stripped, or anything before I took the guy's word for it. There were no wood shavings by the planer, nor poplar shavings in the DC.

I took the planer top off and checked the posts for to see if they were bent, and they checked out okay. I cleaned and put some teflon lube on the posts to reduce friction. And I've never check the cutter head for allignment before, so I did this, made some adjustments, and ran a 9" wide board through and it cuts within 0.001" to parallel. The planer adjusts much smoother now, and I think that a lot of it was normal wear and tear in the end. I probably could have asked for some jointer knives, but I just wanted to get the whole thing off my mind and know that nothing was broken.

Overall, I'm still not at all happy with the whole ordeal. After these guys leave, I'm going to request our locks get re-keyed, and will post some negative feedback whereever I can about this shadey outfit. Thanks for your help everyone.

Paul Johnstone
12-02-2009, 12:47 PM
Thanks for the update. Glad you got your planer working again.

george wilson
12-02-2009, 1:21 PM
You will probably find that newspapers will not publish your complaints about the contractor. I tried to do that years ago when the interest rate dropped to 8%(in the 80's).A friend and I paid $500.00 each to this loan outfit to refinance our houses. they had no intention of doing it,and asked a long string of questions to delay things until the interest rate went up to 9%. They did this to other people,ultimately taking over 9 months to never offer a loan. I tried to advertise for their other victims to contact me to get a class action lawsuit going.

NEVER DO BUSINESS WITH ANYONE WHO ADVERTISES OVER THE RADIO. Please heed this advice for your own good.

The newspaper was afraid of liability,and would not print my ad. Ultimately,we got a lawyer to write the company a letter saying that they'd had 9 months,give us our money back. They did. The letter only cost $100.00,which my friend and I split.

Now,it appears that the contractor didn't use your planer after all?

Matt Day
12-02-2009, 5:16 PM
Turns out he may have not used the planer at all. He admitedly used the jointer, but since he said he "planed a couple boards" my thoughts went straight to my sticky planer and I concluded he used both tools. I should haven't know they aren't smart enough to know what the difference between a thickness planer and a jointer are - he should have used the planer for the task he had to do, not the jointer.

I don't feel bad about assuming he used the planer and that he damaged it. Here's my list of reasons why:
1 using anything in my shop after I specifically told them not too, and not understanding why they shouldn't do so.
2 leaving doors wide open for my pet to potentially escape
3 using the bathrooms when they were told not to
4 their generaly messy site
5 taking over space they aren't supposed to
5 using our trash cans for their construction debris which I have to take to the street each week
6 and just in general being a shadey outfit

Why should I trust anything that comes out of their mouth?

I'll be glad when they leave, and I have new locks on my doors.

phil harold
12-02-2009, 10:50 PM
1 using anything in my shop after I specifically told them not too, and not understanding why they shouldn't do so.
2 leaving doors wide open for my pet to potentially escape
3 using the bathrooms when they were told not to
4 their generaly messy site
5 taking over space they aren't supposed to
5 using our trash cans for their construction debris which I have to take to the street each week
6 and just in general being a shadey outfit


from a contractors view
You need to secure your pet
provide a place for the workers go to the bathroom
provide useable work area
provide dumpster

If you do not provide these things expect the the cost of the job to go up considerably

and now you (the renter) accuse them of damaging a machine they did not touch?

just remember there is two sides of every story...

Mike Cruz
12-02-2009, 11:10 PM
Wait a minute...let me get this straight. Matt, the renter, is supposed to provide a bathroom and waste disposal for people HE didn't hire. NOPE, not in my book.

And YES these contractors DID touch/use his tool/tools without his permission.

If I had been in Matt's shoes (and I mean it, not just a hind sight thing), I would have approached my landlord/friend and said that they are no longer allowed in my unit. The contractors DO NOT have the right to use/touch personal property of the renter without permission. As a simple matter of respect and loyalty to his friend/tennant, the landlord should have fired them on the spot and not given them any more money.

The landlord has a relationship with his tenants...friend or not. Once the contractor is gone, who does he have to deal with in the long run? The tennant.

Sorry, Phil, I don't believe that Matt had any responsiblity of providing waste removal of ANY kind. That is the landlords responsibility...at best. As a contractor, we ALWAYS took ALL of our trash with us. If we didn't have permission to use the restrooms, we left the site and found a public restroom.

Matt, you have/had every right to be boiling mad. Glad to hear that your planer is probably going to be ok. Good luck with the rest of the project.

phil harold
12-03-2009, 8:02 AM
Mike true he is just the renter

So all of are making the assumption that we know the details between the contrator and landlord

and the contractor did not touch the tool the op got all upset about

so questions unanswered


what was the details between the homeowner and contractor, bathroom use, trash removal...
what was the scope of work?
How far was this job from a public restroom
did the landlord agree with the tenant just to protect the relationship
Is the renter a whiner and thats why he is making the landlord paint the house while he is living there for only 6 more months




everyone here is assuming (including me)

people are goading op that he deserves a new planner for nothing

I see something wrong in that









Wait a minute...let me get this straight. Matt, the renter, is supposed to provide a bathroom and waste disposal for people HE didn't hire. NOPE, not in my book.

And YES these contractors DID touch/use his tool/tools without his permission.

If I had been in Matt's shoes (and I mean it, not just a hind sight thing), I would have approached my landlord/friend and said that they are no longer allowed in my unit. The contractors DO NOT have the right to use/touch personal property of the renter without permission. As a simple matter of respect and loyalty to his friend/tennant, the landlord should have fired them on the spot and not given them any more money.

The landlord has a relationship with his tenants...friend or not. Once the contractor is gone, who does he have to deal with in the long run? The tennant.

Sorry, Phil, I don't believe that Matt had any responsiblity of providing waste removal of ANY kind. That is the landlords responsibility...at best. As a contractor, we ALWAYS took ALL of our trash with us. If we didn't have permission to use the restrooms, we left the site and found a public restroom.

Matt, you have/had every right to be boiling mad. Glad to hear that your planer is probably going to be ok. Good luck with the rest of the project.

Mike Cruz
12-03-2009, 8:51 AM
You are right. We are all assuming. This is what I assume...

I assume Matt is telling the truth when he said:
He told the contractors not to use his bathroom. (They used it anyway)
He told the contractors not to use his tools. (They understood what he said)
Some or at least one of his tools GOT used by the contractors. (Regardless of what they called the tool...planer, jointer, whatever)
They admitted to it. (To using A tool)

If I were in his shoes, I too, would have been suspicious when I had a tool alignment issue after realizing that one of my other tools had been used without permission. The contractors admitted to USING the jointer. Possibly because they used it, and knew they didn't screw it up. But didn't admit to using the planer because they never got to use it because they started adjusting it and screwed it up before they got to actually turn it on.

Yeah, a bunch of "maybes" right there, but the bottom line is that I have no reason to TRUST the contractors, and Matt seems to be honest enough to fess up when he was incorrect about what he had already told us...so he gets trust points.

No, I never said he deserved a new planer.

We ALWAYS left the job to use a restroom if we didn't actually get permission to use it...whether we were specifically told not to use it or whether we just never got a yes, or never asked.

Oh, and BTW, really nice assumption that Matt might be a whiner. Love the brotherly love......

Matt Day
12-03-2009, 10:08 AM
You don't think I see both sides of the story!?! :mad: They guy SAID he used the PLANER for cripes sake! Why wouldn't I make the connection to the fact that my planer was acting a little wierd before? Yes I was upset that these guys used any of my tools after I specifically said not to, but I could have just thrown my hands in the air and said I need a new planer, but instead I posted here, called Dewalt tech support, and took the planer apart to try and remedy the problem, which I did.


Mike true he is just the renter

So all of are making the assumption that we know the details between the contrator and landlord

and the contractor did not touch the tool the op got all upset about

That's irrelevant to the fact the contactor is in the wrong to use ANY of my tools. The point is that he went in my shop and used even just one thing after specifically being told not to, and continues to not understand "what the big deal is." The guy is a blockhead. And to be honest I think he should be punished somehow or he'll continue to not understand the heart of the issue. It's not 2nd grade - if you're told not to do something don't do it. Don't use someone else's possessions without permission.


so questions unanswered


what was the details between the homeowner and contractor, bathroom use, trash removal...


details as I've been told by my landlord - they were told to use the outside for #1, no use of the bathrooms. I assume #2 they're on their own. Trash I'm not sure about. Maybe I should have just left their trash keep piling up and I should have thrown our household waste on top of it. [/QUOTE]

what was the scope of work?
why does this matter? If it has to say "dont' use anyone else's tools" it should also say "please don't dance around in the living room and throw poo on the walls".

How far was this job from a public restroom
We live inside the city limits in a residential nieghborhood, with plenty of gas stations and fast food places just down the road.

did the landlord agree with the tenant just to protect the relationship
Only the landlord knows that.

Is the renter a whiner and thats why he is making the landlord paint the house while he is living there for only 6 more months
Are you kidding me? Why would I care about the house getting painted for the last 6 months I live there when I've been there for 6 years already.


from a contractors view
You need to secure your pet
My pet is secure. The only way the pet wouldn't be secure is if they enter an area they aren't supposed to.

provide useable work area
They have a work area - it's called outside. They can't just take over a room and scatter their materials and trash all over the place. There are tools all over the place, a ladder was litterally laying diagonlly across the floor, empty paint cans were all over, etc. They are responsible for tightening up thier workplace, I won't start citing OSHA.


It sounds like you could be related to the contractor working on the house.

Let me end with the fact that I've worked for residential contractors for years in high school and college and cleaning up at the end of the day should be done as routinely as taking a lunch break. Also, I'm an Assistant Project Manager for a General Contractor (currently working as a Construction Manager as Agent for a $150M state project), so I know a thing or two about scopes of work and what contractors are and are not responsible for.

edit: mods, sorry for the rant.

george wilson
12-03-2009, 10:37 AM
I forgot to add,in addition to my contractors using my shovel,and breaking it,and leaving my crowbar out in the rain,that they also used my toilet. Trouble was,when we bought this house,the downstairs toilet wouldn't flush because there was some obstruction lodged in its drain!!!!

I repeat,I HATE dealing with contractors!!!! Since I got the building built,I've managed to hire Colonial Williamsburg maintenance men who I KNOW to do everything else.

Mike Heidrick
12-03-2009, 10:45 AM
Matt, I think I have a Dewalt 734 belt. You need it? If so I will make sure today and you can send me your address.

Matt Day
12-03-2009, 11:36 AM
Matt, I think I have a Dewalt 734 belt. You need it? If so I will make sure today and you can send me your address.

Mine is working okay, so I don't have a need for it, but if you no longer need it I will gladly take it off your hands. PM me for details, thanks!

Sean Nagle
12-03-2009, 12:47 PM
I repeat,I HATE dealing with contractors!!!!

I agree. It's the reason nothing gets tended to at my house until I find the time. If you want a job done right you got to do it yourself.

Brian Kent
12-03-2009, 12:57 PM
Hmmmm, so what gun do you own?....

That's bad. If you use your own gun, they can trace you.

Ken Fitzgerald
12-03-2009, 6:50 PM
Gentlemen,

I will remind everyone the Creek expects a certain amount of civility to be rendered while exchanging information.

I would hate to have to close this thread.

Everybody please lighten up.

Ed Griner
12-03-2009, 7:46 PM
With contractors,their are good ones and bad ones.Good ones stick to their own trade and do it well.Bad ones can do it all,elec.,plumbing,carpentry,masonry.etc. You get what you pay for.If you want a professional(bonded,licensed,competent),they cost more and when the job is complete,everything is works. It all boils down what the project is worth to you.Bad contractors use warm bodies as trades people,park on your lawn,leave the job incomplete,use your home and the contents like its theirs,etc.Landlords(oh brother!) have a glowing reputation for using low end help and the cheap materials.I'm sorry to hear about the unfortunate experience you had and hopefully you can avoid another in the future.
Ed