Dovetails - Pins or Tails 1st

[Gil Knowles]

Hi

I want to try cutting dovetails by hand and have been reading everything I can find. Some people cut the tails first and others the pins.
I was just wondering what the consensus is here.
Many thanks

[John Coloccia]

I've gone back and forth over the years. I still practice both ways. I have to say that I don't really think it matters one darn bit other than there are some dovetails that you HAVE to cut the pins first. If you want to make really small pins, you can do that pins first with a pencil. To do that tails first, you need a marking knife (I've been using an X-Acto knife for stuff like this, actually). It's somewhat easier to cut the tails first since most people find cutting to a line easier when you're straight up and down (i.e. when cutting the pins to match the tails). On the other hand, you typically make the front of the drawer with pins in it (so the drawer doesn't pull apart). If you cut tails first, and then make a mistake matching the pins, your choices are to either make a new drawer front and try again (typically made out of much nicer wood than the sides...$$$ mistake), or make a new side and cut the tails to match the pins (i.e. it degenerates to pins first, but at least you don't have to throw out the pretty wood).

A neat thing you can do tails first is make the narrow part of the pin exactly the width of the saw kerf (cut one way, then put the saw in the same kerf and cut the other way). That would require very precise layout if you're cutting pins first, but it's child's play tails first.

That should clear it right up. As soon as everyone hurries up and agrees with me, you'll have that consensus you're looking for. LOL :D

[Don Dorn]

You'll get all sorts of answers because there isn't a difinitive one. I learned the Frank Klausz way which is pins first. I admit to liking the look of the Cosman dovetails and have tried it but have found a couple of roadblocks. Therefore, I went back to pins first but comprimised with very small pins.

The Cosman argument is that the tails don't have to be exact, only the pins and he contends that with pins first, both have to be perfect cuts. I tend to like pins first because it's easier to use pins to transfer marks to a tail board as the other way around (at least in my opinion).

Some chop the material out, some use a fret saw. My advise is to consider all and then use what works best for you - then stick with it. Like sharpening, if you keep changing techniques, you will always be trying to hit a moving target as opposed to perfecting one.

[Matt Evans]

Some chop the material out, some use a fret saw. My advise is to consider all and then use what works best for you - then stick with it. Like sharpening, if you keep changing techniques, you will always be trying to hit a moving target as opposed to perfecting one.


+1 or more. Either way works. Just stick with it, whatever you choose.

[Casey Gooding]

I agree with the above. Some people have complicated theories on why to do one vs. the other.
I cut tails first. For me, they come out better.

[Dave Matson]

One thing that is cool with cutting tails first is that you can gang cut boards which saves lots of time. Just start practicing and don't stress about all the literature out there.

[John Keeton]

One argument for tails first is the "140" trick that Cosman uses for half blinds. I haven't tried it yet, but intend to with the next set I do. I don't know that one could use that with pins first - though I guess it is possible.

[gary Zimmel]

One more for the tail first gang....
It's how I was taught and have not been down the pin first road.

Seems to work for me so I just stick to what works for me.

John.
I use the 140 trick on all my dovetails.
The ledge that it creates really helps me for all my pin lay outs.

[Jim Koepke]

Most of the time I have cut tails first. Then one evening I was practicing dovetails and tried pins first. Imagine my shock when they fit better than the tails first attempts.

I think the 140 trick got messed up when I tried it because of using a #93 and a batten instead of the #140 and the fence. Have to give this a few more tries.

It gets down to not mattering which way one wants to go. It is the ability to make accurate saw cuts and the pieces fitting together that matter.

It may be best to try both ways a few times and see if one way works better for you.

It never hurts to have experience doing something more than one way.

jim

[Dewald van Lamp]

Hi

I want to try cutting dovetails by hand and have been reading everything I can find. Some people cut the tails first and others the pins.
I was just wondering what the consensus is here.
Many thanks

I have a definitive answer.

No.

:)

[Zach Dillinger]

I prefer to cut pins first. I do the Klausz method i.e. cut it without laying it out. I like this method because it is quick. Transferring your marks is easier as well, since you just have to balance the pin board on top of the tails and mark it. Just my preferred method. I started out cutting tails first but pins first gives me a better fit more quickly.

[Rick Erickson]

I'm with John and Gary. I do tails first. I'm not in that big of a hurry when cutting my dovetails so the Klausz method that so many site as a timesaver (and I'm sure it might be) doesn't apply to me. In the 'old days' when time was money Klausz's method proved valuable. I'm not sure that is the case now. When it does apply most would use a jig. Cutting the tails first gives me some room for error when making the angled cuts. I don't find marking the pins from the tails all that difficult. As others have referenced, just cut a very small rabbet on the inside of the tail board. It locks in place perfectly and off you go.

[Sean Hughto]

I'm guessing that there is a consensus that one should cut either tails or pins first.