Stack and Stickering

[Will Hon]

First off, thanks to everyone who provided all the helpful commentary on my thread the other day about milling your own lumber, of which I will probably be doing in the next couple of days. But, first I want to be prepared to store it after. I'm a little knew to the process, so don't be afraid to really explain something... I look at it as a good learning experience.

1. What material to use for the stickers?
- i've heard any dry wood 3/4" x 3/4" is suitable, but i'm looking to cut some cost. Will using MDF strips hurt anything? I obviously don't want any stainage etc.

2. What is the most appropriate spacing of stickers?
- I've read 24'', 18", and 16"... i'm sure it doesn't make a lot of difference, but people seem to feel really strongly about one or another.

I'll be air drying Oak and Walnut... possibly just walnut, because the oak might go straight to the kiln... if that makes any difference.

3. If I were to be air dry both, should one be stacked upon the other, or in different stacks entirely?

4. I know you should cover the pile with a piece of barn tin, but should the pile also be surrounded with a tarp-esque material? If so what is the most suitable, cost effective material to use. Keep in mind i'm in MO and its about to get snowy and cold around here.

*** any well illustrated material, pdf, etc. on stacking and stickering would be welcome... I can't seem to find any. Thanks,

-Will

[Anthony Whitesell]

I can only add to #4. It's all about air flow. Tin on top is better than a plastic sheet or a tarp. The tin won't sag and hug the pile like a tarp would. Even better is to "sticker" the tin up off of the top layer. Again air flow. An no tarp wrapped around it. If the snow builds up next to it and starts to cut off the air flow, just shovel it away.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Will, I wouldn't use MDF as stickers since the pile will get damp occasionally due to wind and rain or snow.

I used some leftover pine for stickers, I space them about 16 to 20" apart, and line them up vertically to transfer the weight back down to the base.

Regards, Rod.

[Cody Colston]

First off, thanks to everyone who provided all the helpful commentary on my thread the other day about milling your own lumber, of which I will probably be doing in the next couple of days. But, first I want to be prepared to store it after. I'm a little knew to the process, so don't be afraid to really explain something... I look at it as a good learning experience.

1. What material to use for the stickers?
- i've heard any dry wood 3/4" x 3/4" is suitable, but i'm looking to cut some cost. Will using MDF strips hurt anything? I obviously don't want any stainage etc.

You can use green wood from the same stock as the stickered lumber or any wood if it is dry. MDF won't sticker-stain your lumber but it may deteriorate if it gets wet.

2. What is the most appropriate spacing of stickers?
- I've read 24'', 18", and 16"... i'm sure it doesn't make a lot of difference, but people seem to feel really strongly about one or another.

I'd go with 24" as a maximum but less surely won't hurt. Keep the stickers aligned vertically and use a wider sticker...somthing like 3" - 4" width on the ends.

I'll be air drying Oak and Walnut... possibly just walnut, because the oak might go straight to the kiln... if that makes any difference.

3. If I were to be air dry both, should one be stacked upon the other, or in different stacks entirely?

I'd put them in different stacks just for convenience when you go to access the lumber.

4. I know you should cover the pile with a piece of barn tin, but should the pile also be surrounded with a tarp-esque material? If so what is the most suitable, cost effective material to use. Keep in mind i'm in MO and its about to get snowy and cold around here.

No, don't cover the sides of the stack. Air must be allowed to move freely between the layers. You can overhang the covering a bit to help kep rain/snow off of the lumber. The base of the stack needs to be eleated off the ground several inches, be flat but also inclined a bit...ie, one end slightly higher than the other. That will help in shedding off precipitation.


Ideally, you would prepare the site by removing any vegetation, laying down some landscape cloth and covering it with a couple inches of gravel. Place 8" cinder blocks every two feet in parallel rows app. 4' apart and the length of your lumber. Make sure the blocks are in the same plane and that the plane slopes from one end to another. Place 4" x 4" landscape timbers across the blocks and then place stickers on top of the timber before stacking your lumber. Leave a gap of 1" between the boards in each layer. When you finish the stack, cover with corrugated tin roofing and then place sand bags, cinder blocks or whatever you have on top to hold down the tin and also to compress the stack.

*** any well illustrated material, pdf, etc. on stacking and stickering would be welcome... I can't seem to find any. Thanks,

-Will

Hope this helps.

[Scott T Smith]

First off, thanks to everyone who provided all the helpful commentary on my thread the other day about milling your own lumber, of which I will probably be doing in the next couple of days. But, first I want to be prepared to store it after. I'm a little knew to the process, so don't be afraid to really explain something... I look at it as a good learning experience.

1. What material to use for the stickers?
- i've heard any dry wood 3/4" x 3/4" is suitable, but i'm looking to cut some cost. Will using MDF strips hurt anything? I obviously don't want any stainage etc.

For stickers, dry wood is best, although since we are entering the cooler time of the year stickers made from green wood probably won't stain. 3/4" is the minimum thickness that you want, 1" is also suitable, and actually the dimension that I prefer for air drying. 3/4 works better inside the kiln. I would stay away from MDF for the reasons that Rod stated.

2. What is the most appropriate spacing of stickers?
- I've read 24'', 18", and 16"... i'm sure it doesn't make a lot of difference, but people seem to feel really strongly about one or another.

Sticker spacing is directly related to board flatness after drying. The closer the spacing, the flatter that your boards will end up. For furniture grade lumber I prefer no more than 16" on center, and in some instances have stickered at 12".

If you want to try to get long, straight boards that will joint/plane flat, space your stickers closer together. MOST IMPORTANT - be sure to align them vertically as closely as possible. IE - you want them placed directly above one another.

I'll be air drying Oak and Walnut... possibly just walnut, because the oak might go straight to the kiln... if that makes any difference.

3. If I were to be air dry both, should one be stacked upon the other, or in different stacks entirely?

Walnut is very forgiving to dry. If it were me, I would stack/sticker the walnut on top of your oak, in order to reduce movement within the oak while it is drying.

4. I know you should cover the pile with a piece of barn tin, but should the pile also be surrounded with a tarp-esque material? If so what is the most suitable, cost effective material to use. Keep in mind i'm in MO and its about to get snowy and cold around here.

There is a professional product called "Shade dry" that is commonly used in commercial air drying applications. It resembles a thick woven screen material, such as what you would occasionally see used for a translucent shade awning.

As anthony mentioned, you don't want to cut off the airflow through your stacks, but with respect to drying your oak slower is better than faster.

If tin is not available, take some old wood planks or plywood that you don't mind throwing away and make a simple sloped roof to go on top of your stacks. Be sure to overhang it by a foot or so all the way around to keep runoff from entering the stack.

*** any well illustrated material, pdf, etc. on stacking and stickering would be welcome... I can't seem to find any. Thanks,



-Will


Will, my comments are above below your questions.

I have a soft copy of the "Air drying of Lumber" report by the USDA. If you send me a PM with your e-mail address, I'll e-mail it to you. It is probabably the most widely used reference document for air drying lumber; 66 pages of very good info.

Scott

[Abi Parris]

Not to steer you away from the obvious breadth & knowlege on SMC...

I found a lot of good info about milling, etc at Arborsite.com when I was thinking about doing something similar to you. Plus, the members there are as helpful as those found here!

[Jack Ganssle]

You can get the Air Drying of Lumber booklet in .PDF form for free from here: http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr117.pdf .

[Danny Hamsley]

I am with Scott in that I would put the oak on the bottom and use the weight of the walnut boards on the oak. Also, oak needs to dry a little slow, so putting it on the bottom would be better since in my experience, the boards on the bottom dry a little slower than the boards on top.

[James G. McQueen]

One of the aspects of my business is kiln dryng. I usually sticker and air dry it first. The members are giving you good advice and I will add to it. Instead of using barn tin I use 3/8 exterior plywood. I make my pile 44 inches wide so the sheet will form 2 inch overhangs to run the rain. I sticker between the sheets and the lumber and also run sticks perpendicular down the center of the last layer of sticks. When I put the sheet on it forms a small roof. Then I add 2- 4x4s to the outsides to hold the sheets down. I personally don,t like barn tin because it can cause a lot of damage or personal injury if the wind blows it off .

I suggest 14 to 16 for sticker spacing and you could paint the ends of the logs or lumber to reduce checking or cracking.

Good Luck and enjoy

[Richard M. Wolfe]

Wil, when stacking make sure the base is stable and level, and I would emphasis level because wif you start with a "wave" in your stack you're already defeated. It is recommended that the bottom layer be started 8-10 inches off the ground. Cinder blocks work well for this, worked well into the soil. And unless you can put the base blocks a foot or so apart to stick on you'll need something to put on them. We got a number of old pallets which were the same thickness and use them for on the base.

From what I've read MDF is not a prime choice for stickers from a deterioration standpoint, as Cody mentioned. Any wood species can be used as long as it is dry, with a minimum thickness of a half inch. Support the boards as close to the ends as possible. As far as spacing is concerned, the closer the better, especially with hardwoods prone to warp, like oak. We will commonly stick at about a foot, with about sixteen inches being the maximum. Airflow doesn't seem to be hampered by sticking more closely. Making the stack of different species is OK, but make the individual layers the same material as shrinkage may be different for different species.

When sticking the sides should remain open for air circulation. Unless the top of the stack is weighted the top two layers will probably warp and that may extend deeper into the stack depending on species. What I like to do is to kick the material to the side that is the lesser stuff, like that with a lot of sapwood or bark and use it on top, putting the choice stuff deep in the pile so it has a lot of weight on it. the more weight you have on it the better. It doesn't make any difference what the top is as long as it's secured well. I know an operation that sticks a lot of green wood and they use roll roofing or tarpaper. For their use staining is not an issue, although I've never seen any of their wood that had a problem with it.

[Danny Hamsley]

3/4" thick stickers work well in oak, walnut, and cherry. For yellow poplar and maple, I have experienced some gray staining of the wood (an oxidation reaction that takes place in the wood at high humidity), so I think that a 1" thick sticker promotes a little better airflow and whiter lumber in certain species.

[Will Hon]

awesome, thanks for all the help guys.

1. Richard, could you give me more information as to how and why the company is using roll roofing/tarpaper? Is it as an exterior curtain around the stack?

2. Something else I forgot to mention, is it necessary to clean the snow off the stack every day? I know the stack's roof will be slightly inclined for drainage, but it can get pretty snowy and pretty windy here in MO, and I can imagine some will blow into the pile.

[Scott T Smith]

Wil, when stacking make sure the base is stable and level, and I would emphasis level because wif you start with a "wave" in your stack you're already defeated. It is recommended that the bottom layer be started 8-10 inches off the ground. Cinder blocks work well for this, worked well into the soil. And unless you can put the base blocks a foot or so apart to stick on you'll need something to put on them. We got a number of old pallets which were the same thickness and use them for on the base.

From what I've read MDF is not a prime choice for stickers from a deterioration standpoint, as Cody mentioned. Any wood species can be used as long as it is dry, with a minimum thickness of a half inch. Support the boards as close to the ends as possible. As far as spacing is concerned, the closer the better, especially with hardwoods prone to warp, like oak. We will commonly stick at about a foot, with about sixteen inches being the maximum. Airflow doesn't seem to be hampered by sticking more closely. Making the stack of different species is OK, but make the individual layers the same material as shrinkage may be different for different species.

When sticking the sides should remain open for air circulation. Unless the top of the stack is weighted the top two layers will probably warp and that may extend deeper into the stack depending on species. What I like to do is to kick the material to the side that is the lesser stuff, like that with a lot of sapwood or bark and use it on top, putting the choice stuff deep in the pile so it has a lot of weight on it. the more weight you have on it the better. It doesn't make any difference what the top is as long as it's secured well. I know an operation that sticks a lot of green wood and they use roll roofing or tarpaper. For their use staining is not an issue, although I've never seen any of their wood that had a problem with it.


Richard - GREAT POST.

[Richard M. Wolfe]

Wil, I mentioned the company I'm familiar with using tarpaper on top of the stack. It is used like the barn tin, as a shade/precipitation shelter for the top, and I think one of the big reasons for using it was that it's cheap. As I recall they had a bunch of old bricks put on the top to keep it from blowing off. You don't want to put anything around the sides of the stack because blocking the airflow defeats the drying objective.

As far as snow on the top of the stack, we don't have that worry where I am....hooray!! I don't know how you would be best advised to deal with snow as I can see it blowing into the stack and plugging the circulation. I would try to at least keep the majority of it cleaned off - gradually melting snow could keep the wood wet for some time.

And you may see I'm editing this: I thought to add one other thing. In making the layers of the stack I try to put the lesser boards on top, as mentioned, but also put the boards with the 'lesser' edges to the outside throughout the stack. The outside is going to weather and sunbleach some and if you have bark, a crooked edge to tbe trimmed, etc to cut off you'll lose less good wood.

And thanks, Scott.

[Nelson Howe]

FWW had a few good articles on air drying lumber. The one in issue#204 was especially helpful to me. I bought a bunch of 1x4 strapping at the borg and ripped it into 3/4 inch strips (well, almost 3/4) to use for stickering. I built a small roof frame and covered it with a blue tarp because the metal roofing was so expensive. The roof frame is tied to the stack and is going nowhere.

As far as wrapping the side, I bought the shade dri stuff recommended in the article--www.shadedri.com. It was reasonably priced, and shipped right away. This stuff keeps the sun, snow, and rain off, but lets air circulate freely, which seemed like a good idea to me.

I've only had my stack (maple and oak) built for a few months now, so if I'm doing something wrong, I couldn't tell you.

Putting your best boards in the middle of the stack will protect them. Weighting the top of the stack should help keep things flatter. The article also recommended a location out of a lot of direct sun, but with good airflow. That's not an easy spot to find. I guess the idea is you don't want to roast your boards in the sun, or mold them by keeping them too wet. Make sure you seal the ends of the boards.

Nelson

[Fred Voorhees]

I will only add that weighing down the pile with concrete block is very recommended. Keeps things flat. I used 12 by strapping for stickers in my stack of walnut and had virtually no staining whatsoever. Covered the pile with plywood and then a tarp, but kept the overhang of the tarp kept to a minimum on the sides and ends to help with airflow. Sealed the ends of the lumber with wax.