Bandsaw - Following The Line

[Jim Eller]

Is there some secret or trick to following a line while cutting on a bandsaw?:confused:

I can never seem to make one continues cut when I'm either trying to cut on the line or just off the line for using a flush cut bit.

Even gentle curves drive me nuts. It's seems I'm always backin' up and goin' forward.

I'm not really new at this but maybe the solution is practice, practice, practice...

Jim

[james bell]

i am definitely not an expert on this, but most of my success has come when i cut at a steady speed. stopping or trying to get exact is where i start to wander around the line. once you get off the line (hopefully outside) do try and rush getting on the line again - slow and smooth is better although more sanding is required, or a second pass with the bandsaw.

happy t-day ... jim

[John Coloccia]

1) It's hard to follow a line if the bandsaw's not setup properly, i.e. the blade is allowed to wobble back and forth. If the blade guide is setup any looser than just barely touching (or barely not touching) it's too loose and you'll drive yourself nuts

2) if you put side to side pressure on the blade as you're cutting, the set of the bandsaw blade will very happily cut sideways and you'll end up with a very wobbly line. For this, practice making long straight cuts concentrating on pushing only dead straight, or ROTATING to follow the line. No sideways pushing if you can avoid it.

3) when following a curve, or anything really, you can't turn in place. You have to go forward and turn at the same time. It's hard at first because you're doing two things at once (3 things if you count trying to keep your hands out of the blade). To get good at this, I took a board and just freehand scribbled curves down the length of the board...and then practiced trying to follow it. When you have a board you don't care about, you can practice quite freely and before you know it you'll be able to go right up to the line no problem. It seems impossible at first, but a few cuts like this will fix you up very quickly, just like I fixed myself up (I had the same problem for sometime until I started practicing on scrap wood!)

And always keep your eye on the front of the blade. That's the business end. Watching the whole blade is a sure way to cut way off the line. It's only the front of the blade that matters. As simple as this is to say and understand, it's sometimes difficult in practice and actually requires a fair bit of concentration at first. Unless you do this, though, you'll always find yourself cutting too shallow going into a cut, and cutting too deep coming out of a cut. The width of the blade makes you think it's cutting behind where it's actually cutting, but it's just an illusion and it can be trained away :D

Last advice I can offer is to always keep in mind where the curve is actually headed. The tangent of the curve must always point straight down the bandsaw blade. As obvious as this may seem, it's not so obvious when you're actually and it requires a fair bit of concentration to do this. This is much more reliable than just turning the piece until you're at the line, and hoping you catch it in time to keep from over cutting. The next time you're having some trouble, stop and look at the curve you're cutting and the tangent of that curve. I'll bet dollars to donuts that they're way off from each other. To fix this, I took some complex curves, and at the apex of the curves I actually drew the tangent with a pencil. This reminded me where I needed to be at what's usually the tightest part of the, and I was pretty surprised how aggressive I had to be to get that lined up in time. A few times doing that taught me what it looks like when everything is lined up properly and now it's much easier. I was just inexperienced and my intuition was NOT my friend in this case.

Anyhow, I'm not a pro at this by any means, but I had similar problems that drove me nuts, and this is what I had to do to really refine my bandsaw technique. I'll never win awards for scroll cutting work, but I can at least competently cut out basic shapes finally.

[John Keeton]

Choice of blade makes a huge difference, so it will depend on the stock you are using. I try to use a sharp blade with 2-3 teeth in the stock. So, for 3/4 stuff, a 2-3tpi blade, at least. For a smoother cut, even higher tpi, but feed rate may change.

[Bill Huber]

I have the same problem and it just takes a good blade and practice to get it right.

I use a lot of templates when I make things, I like using the flush trim bits to get every part just alike. What I do is make the templates first out of MDF which is very easy to cut and sands really easy.

I stay out side the line and then sand to the line with my Ridgid sander. I will then put the template on the board with 2 sided tape and cut it on the band saw. The trick for me is the pin.

I have one of these I put on my saw when I am using a template, they are great and make fast work out of the job. Cut it on the band saw and then I go right to the router table with the flash trim bit.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=18055&filter=band%20saw

[Tom Esh]

I'm not really new at this but maybe the solution is practice, practice, practice...
Jim

Bingo! The most important tip I got from someone while learning was not to "guide" the workpiece but rather to "steer" it.

[Jason Beam]

When following a line, I've found it works best if I don't aim where the blade IS. Aim about 1/4" ahead of where the blade currently is. Get that spot lined up and ready to cut and you'll be good to go.

Works great with all but the tightest of curves. With those, I just go really slow and aim about 1/8" ahead of it.

[William Falberg]

And the trick is to stay off the thrust support bearing altogether. You need to twist the blade between the side rollers until they scream. You have to frequently loosen your grip on the workpiece to allow the blade to re-set its trajectory relative to the workpiece and to its center between the wheels (That's how so many get bowed cuts when making tight turns.) It's counter-intuitive in that you don't WANT forward feed at all. This is how we test for minimum turn radius. You can't turn inside a blade's MTR and you either change blades or re-set the blade you got to go any tighter. Or make multiple passes.


http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/falbergsawco/WWDSTurningTheDime.jpg

[Jim Sears]

One other thing that I might add. Be sure you have good light on your line. If lighting is a the wrong angle, you will get a shadow. If you lose your concentration, you will find yourself following the line that the shadow makes. I've done it hundreds of times.

[Chris Friesen]

And the trick is to stay off the thrust support bearing altogether. You need to twist the blade between the side rollers until they scream.

Not sure I agree with that. The minimum turn radius is related to the width (not thickness) of the blade vs the width of the kerf. Once you reach that radius, twisting harder won't help much.

[Phil Thien]

I read a tip in a magazine once. Draw two lines a kerf apart, and guide the blade between the two lines. It is much easier than following a single line. Don't know why, but it helped me quite a bit.

[Jim Eller]

Wow!! That's some good info. ...and quick too.

Mr. Huber: You just reminded me, I have one of those little things. And it's brand new. I'll have to try it.

I appreciate the help. I just have to start trying it and maybe some of the frustration will go away.

Jim

[Johnnyy Johnson]

Hi Guys...If you had a 1" thick pc. of oak 3'X8" and wanted to cut it straight down the middle, would you use a fence or use a fence that has the piece that sticks out to re saw with? (the one where you can move the board end back in forth to stay on line)

[Pete Bradley]

The problem usually comes if you don't anticipate a curve enough. You need to be thinking ahead and moving the workpiece so that the band doesn't fall behind the curve.

If you're in your 40s or 50s, your near vision may be changing which can play havoc with bandsawing.

Pete

[Jason Beam]

Hi Guys...If you had a 1" thick pc. of oak 3'X8" and wanted to cut it straight down the middle, would you use a fence or use a fence that has the piece that sticks out to re saw with? (the one where you can move the board end back in forth to stay on line)


Just a regular fence - i think those point-fences are pointless ... tried 'em, hate 'em. I can slice 3/32" thick veneer off with a flat fence no problem. Could prolly go thinner, even.

[Josiah Bartlett]

It also helps to take a stone and round the edge off the back of the blade. It makes it run a lot smoother in the cut.

[Cody Colston]

A couple have alluded to it already but the trick to following a line is to look just ahead of the cut point and anticipate the curves. If you wait until you reach a curve to start positioning the stock to make the cut, then you have waited too long.

I saw a tip in one of the mags a while back that suggested marking two parallel lines and cutting in-between them. Supposedly, it is easier to keep the blade between two lines than it is to follow a single line.

[Jim Eller]

I have one of these I put on my saw when I am using a template, they are great and make fast work out of the job. Cut it on the band saw and then I go right to the router table with the flash trim bit.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=18055&filter=band%20saw

Well Bill, that didn't work.

I found the duplication pin thing but it doesn't appear to work with my Carter Bearing setup. Could be wrong. Been wrong before, especially around the house when the wife's home.

Jim

[Wayne Cannon]

At a half-day band saw presentation at The Woodworking Shows a few years ago, Michael Fortune said that it is difficult to cleanly follow a line cutting straight into it. He recommended a "crabbing" cut [my term] where you let the back edge of the blade drag against one side of the kerf, so you are using that edge of the kerf and the back of the blade as a guide.

This results in cutting ever-so-slightly diagonally through the blade, i.e., the direction of board movement and the kerf will be at a slight angle to the blade. Obviously, this works better for a 1/4" or 1/2" blade than for a 1/8" blade where the blade width is close to the kerf width.

I've tried it ever since. It's easier to follow the line, and my cuts are noticeably smoother. It is a lot easier to cleanly follow a line free-hand when you have something to guide against. If the back of the blade is centered in the kerf and not rubbing against either side, it's much easier for the cutting edge of the blade to meander (or, rather, for ME to meander).

Crabbing (http://www.answers.com/topic/crabbing): (navigation) The horizontal attitude of an aircraft in flight when a crosswind causes its heading to differ from the course.

[Bill Huber]

Well Bill, that didn't work.

I found the duplication pin thing but it doesn't appear to work with my Carter Bearing setup. Could be wrong. Been wrong before, especially around the house when the wife's home.

Jim

Well Jim, I think its time to make one that will fit the Carter Bearings. There has to be a way to do it.

If noting else you could make one of these.

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/showphoto.php?photo=19595&ppuser=51


(http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/showphoto.php?photo=19595&ppuser=51)

[Jim Eller]

Hey Bill, I think that would work. I'm cutting out a bunch of puzzle rockers and the jig saw just doesn't get it in 3/4" birch plywood.

Yer just a bundle of knowledge and wealth of information.:)

Thanks!
Jim

[Charlie Doret]

There's an article in FW magazine from a year or two ago that discusses the use of this "crabbing" technique. I'm far from an expert at cutting beautiful curves on the bandsaw, but it does help me to get smoother cuts.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesPDF.aspx?id=30751

[William Falberg]

Crabbing is a word I introduced in an article about blade set angles in Woodshop News from the March 2007 issue. I've got a few new comments to add concerning blade set in my up-coming book, but for now it might be relevant to pass on another little tip for finnessing a blade through intricate cuts. You can artificially increase, or effectively re-set, a blade by putting a slight twist incremenally along its length to deliberately make it wobble a bit; sort of like a wavy-set blade. It don't take much, but with narrow blades it might be just enouh to make a difference. In conjunction with a "patient" feed pressure you should be dead-on your finely drawn scribe lines.

[Todd Trebuna]

I read a tip in a magazine once. Draw two lines a kerf apart, and guide the blade between the two lines. It is much easier than following a single line. Don't know why, but it helped me quite a bit.

This is what I do. I learned it from the wife, who's quite a seamstress.

[Jim Eller]

I'll have to try that '"crabbing" technique. I now it works for my wife.

She uses it everyday to get me to do things.:D

[Wayne Cannon]

Charlie, This is Michael Fortune's article and the technique he presented is shown at the top of page 36 in the PDF-file of the article. Thanks for the link.

[Wayne Jolly]

The biggest problem I have is that after just a little while of concentrating on the cut, I start staring and almost go into a cataleptic state. OK. The catalepsy is a bit of an over statement. But I do start staring and have to stop and look away periodically.

xeddog

[Prashun Patel]

For me, practice has bred confidence. That's the most important (and dangerous!?) thing in cutting smoothly.

This is what works for me:

I use my left hand to 'steer' and my right hand to push or 'drive' the piece.

I had the toughest time on long, gently fared curves. My placing my left hand a few inches before the blade and using it as a pivot point/fence, and pushing with the right hand, I'm able to get really smooth curves. I also sight down the piece as much as possible, which helps you align the blade to where the cut is going.

Never had an issue with tight cuts, since I usually require relief cuts or sanding anyway.

[Stephen Edwards]

This is a good thread. Thanks to all of you for your suggestions.

[Wayne Cannon]

A tip I received for scroll sawing, that also works well for the band saw, is to not concentrate on the cutting edge of the blade, but to look at the kerf about two inches behind the blade with the blade still in the lower portion of your primary vision zone. It's much more restful and results in more gradual corrections, and therefore, smoother cuts. The cutting edge is still close enough to your central vision that you can easily follow the line for straight and gradual curves. It doesn't work as well for tight curves, however.

Another scroll saw tip that helps me on the band saw is to "pull" (and steer) the work through the blade from behind the blade rather than "pushing" the work from ahead of the blade like I used to. When pulling, the force of the blade works to follow the pull; but when pushing, the force of the blade works to go away from the push in one direction or the other.
The forces are more stable that way -- like pulling a pencil along a line from the far end instead of trying to follow the line by pushing it from the near end. When pulling, the work (or pencil) naturally follows your pull (a stable state); but when pushing, the leading edge of your work at the blade is always trying to go to the left or right away from the line (an unstable state), forcing you to actively correct for it and resulting in a rough edge from the many tiny corrections.

Think about doing it blind-folded. Without looking, you can pull your work through the blade and make a pretty straight cut. However, pushing it without looking will always deviate from the line in one direction or the other as soon as it can.

[Jim Eller]

Think about doing it blind-folded. Without looking, you can pull your work through the blade and make a pretty straight cut. However, pushing it without looking will always deviate from the line in one direction or the other as soon as it can.


I'm gonna try that blind-fold thing. .........but with the saw not running!

Thanks for the tips.

[Jim Eller]

Last night as I was going through some stuff looking for something I needed, I found a brand new Carter Stabilizer. I purchased it a couple of years ago at a WW show and had forgotten about it.

So I thought, what the heck........ I installed it on my 14" Delta and I think I'm gonna leave it on there. It works every bit as good as the Carter bearing guides and I can change blades in a heartbeat.

I'm making a bunch of puzzle rockers and I can make the 3/8" radius with the 3/16" blade easily.

For whatever reason, I seem to be able to stay about an 1/8" from my line easier so I can use a pattern bit with my pattern.

Go figure:confused:

Anyone else use this thing? http://www.carterproducts.com/product.asp?product_id=482&cat_id=14

Jim

[James Carmichael]

I read a tip in a magazine once. Draw two lines a kerf apart, and guide the blade between the two lines. It is much easier than following a single line. Don't know why, but it helped me quite a bit.

Cool tip there, Phil.

Try as I may, I cannot keep from disecting the line, my hands and eyes are simply glued to it.

The Rockler guide Bill suggested looks great, too, for template work. You can make a single point guide and position it 1/16" or so away from the blade, but the pin is height-adjustable to the thickness of the stock, which is hard to do with a shop-made fence (especially for $8).

[Wayne Cannon]

Guess I need to be more careful about my analogies!

[Paul Johnstone]

Last night as I was going through some stuff looking for something I needed, I found a brand new Carter Stabilizer. I purchased it a couple of years ago at a WW show and had forgotten about it.

Anyone else use this thing? http://www.carterproducts.com/product.asp?product_id=482&cat_id=14

Jim

I just got one a few days ago. I love it. I do a lot of crosscuting of small pieces on the bandsaw with 1/4" blade and a mitre guage (they don't have to be perfectly square).. This really helps with those type of cuts as well.

It's expensive, but really nice. I have an 18" bandsaw and the huge roller guides really aren't that friendly to 1/4" blade work. This is a real improvement. Wish I bought one years ago.

[John Coloccia]

There's an article in FW magazine from a year or two ago that discusses the use of this "crabbing" technique. I'm far from an expert at cutting beautiful curves on the bandsaw, but it does help me to get smoother cuts.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesPDF.aspx?id=30751

Could someone explain this technique? I have a feeling it's similar to something that I've started doing unconsciously lately.

[Jim Becker]

Steady speed, light touch on the workpiece and don't force it. It's an "artform" and yes, practice will be very helpful since it's all about touch. And it's also a lot easier to follow the line if your blade is sharp and properly tensioned... ;)