Milling Your Own Trees... Advantageous?

[Will Hon]

Hey, I was just wondering if anyone has any experience using logs off of your own land, family land, or just logs that were given to you and taking them down to the local sawmill and on to a kiln? I was just offered several large walnut trees on the family farm because they have become a hassle to mow around. :D It won't be a big deal to cut them down and get them to one of the local sawmills, but I guess first of all I have some questions.

1. Is it cost effective to get your own logs milled and kiln dried vs. just buying already dried from the local kiln?

2. What kind of price should be expected for milling and drying?

3. What is the most appropriate length and width to have the wood milled to prior to heading to the kiln?

4. Are most mills capable of quarter-sawing logs on request?

5. Is there any general info I should know before I head into this?

I'm fairly excited about this proposition, and it will be really neat to have a significant amount of wood off of the family farm, but I don't really want to start the process clueless. :confused:

[Paul Greathouse]

Hey, I was just wondering if anyone has any experience using logs off of your own land, family land, or just logs that were given to you and taking them down to the local sawmill and on to a kiln? I was just offered several large walnut trees on the family farm because they have become a hassle to mow around. :D It won't be a big deal to cut them down and get them to one of the local sawmills, but I guess first of all I have some questions.

There could be a world of difference between our areas but I will answer your questions as they pertain to where I live.

1. Is it cost effective to get your own logs milled and kiln dried vs. just buying already dried from the local kiln?

In your case, it should be. Rough kiln dried walnut sells for about $4.80/bdft in my area. I was lucky to find some for an unheard of price of $1.80/bdft. The guy had over-bought for construction of cabinets and trim in a house he was building and was trying to get rid of what was left.

2. What kind of price should be expected for milling and drying?

Somewhere around .25 - .45 cents/bdft for sawing and another .50 - .75 cents/bdft for kiln drying.

3. What is the most appropriate length and width to have the wood milled to prior to heading to the kiln?

Different kilns are going to have different length limits but I like to have my boards cut to 12 feet for cabinet parts and 16' for moulding.

4. Are most mills capable of quarter-sawing logs on request?

Any mill should be capable of quartersawing but not all are willing to do it because it is time consuming. It will most likely cost more than flat sawing. Quarter sawing is more common for oak, you shouldn't need to quartersaw Walnut. The Walnut I bought is flat sawn and it is beautiful and straight.

5. Is there any general info I should know before I head into this?

You may be able to find someone with a portable bandsaw mill. I have gotten better more consistant sawing from bandsaw mills than circle blade mills. The portable mills can do the work on your property and sticker it for air drying as its being sawed. You can go straight to the kiln with your lumber but I like to air dry for a year before kiln drying. It's less stressful on the lumber, so you'll end up with less twisted/warped boards if you air dry first.

I'm fairly excited about this proposition, and it will be really neat to have a significant amount of wood off of the family farm, but I don't really want to start the process clueless. :confused:

Just check the price for rough kiln dried Walnut in your area and compare it to quotes you get for sawing and drying. That should be a better answer your question.

[Scott T Smith]

Will, I'll caveat my response up front by stating that I have had this done several years ago. Today I own both a sawmill as well as my own kiln.



Hey, I was just wondering if anyone has any experience using logs off of your own land, family land, or just logs that were given to you and taking them down to the local sawmill and on to a kiln? I was just offered several large walnut trees on the family farm because they have become a hassle to mow around. :D It won't be a big deal to cut them down and get them to one of the local sawmills, but I guess first of all I have some questions.

1. Is it cost effective to get your own logs milled and kiln dried vs. just buying already dried from the local kiln? The answer is "it depends". If you have some very nice logs from a valuable species, such as walnut - then it can be cost effective. For relatively inexpensive woods such as pine and poplar, probably not. There are several drivers to the cost. First, the quality of the logs. Do you have straight, clear logs that will produce high quality lumber? Are they free from metal objects? Will you have to pay someone to fell them, and then pay someone to load and transport them to the sawmill? The biggest benefit that you will have is knowing that your wood is a part of your family.

2. What kind of price should be expected for milling and drying? .25 - .50 bd ft for milling, and .50 - .70 for kiln drying. KD costs will be less if the wood was air dried first, but beware - most of the defects that occur in the drying process occur from the time that the wood was green until it dries down to 35% MC.

3. What is the most appropriate length and width to have the wood milled to prior to heading to the kiln? Talk to your kiln operator first! Different operators prefer different lengths. If you want to save some $ by having your wood nested in with a different load, you will need to know the lengths and precise thicknesses that the kiln operator is running, otherwise it will cost you extra $.

4. Are most mills capable of quarter-sawing logs on request? NO - it depends upon the mill and the sawyer. Talk to them first. I would not advocate QSing walnut - it's much prettier as flat sawn.

5. Is there any general info I should know before I head into this? Yes, you will want to have a plan for your lumber (lengths, widths and thicknesses), know if you will air dry before kiln drying, and know when the kiln will be available. For maximum lumber quality, you would fell the tree, buck to length, and end seal the logs on Day 1, mill the logs into boards on day 2, and get the boards into the kiln on day 3. Any increase in this timeframe will increase loss due to degrade. If you AD your lumber first, you will want to pre-manufacture your stickers and have a place set up for air drying, so that you can get your boards stacked and stickered ASAP after milling. If you're going directly from the mill to the kiln, leave the boards dead-stacked as this will help prevent moisture loss outside of the kiln environment. For walnut, low temperature kilns such as dehumidification types will produce a prettier lumber than high temperature kilns with steam injection. Also, you can't mix different species or board thicknesses in the same kiln run, unless you're drying in a solar kiln.

I'm fairly excited about this proposition, and it will be really neat to have a significant amount of wood off of the family farm, but I don't really want to start the process clueless. :confused:

[Will Hon]

First off, thanks for such fasts resonse


Any mill should be capable of quartersawing but not all are willing to do it because it is time consuming. It will most likely cost more than flat sawing. Quarter sawing is more common for oak, you shouldn't need to quartersaw Walnut. The Walnut I bought is flat sawn and it is beautiful and straight.


I would not advocate QSing walnut - it's much prettier as flat sawn.

yes, I agree, I asked because there is a good chance we could grab a couple oak trees while were out there.


do you have straight, clear logs that will produce high quality lumber? Are they free from metal objects? Will you have to pay someone to fell them, and then pay someone to load and transport them to the sawmill? The biggest benefit that you will have is knowing that your wood is a part of your family.


Yes, they are monsters, no low branches; big, tall and straight. I won't have to pay anyone to fell or haul them.


For maximum lumber quality, you would fell the tree, buck to length, and end seal the logs on Day 1, mill the logs into boards on day 2, and get the boards into the kiln on day 3. Any increase in this timeframe will increase loss due to degrade.


I like to air dry for a year before kiln drying. It's less stressful on the lumber, so you'll end up with less twisted/warped boards if you air dry first.

How much/ what kind of degrade will I have if we fell on Day 1 and can't get to the mill for a few days?

Will I have significantly better results if I do air-dry for a year prior to kiln? What if it was air-dried for a shorter period, like 6 months prior to the kiln?


most of the defects that occur in the drying process occur from the time that the wood was green until it dries down to 35% MC.

How long should it take to air dry from green to 35%?

[Cody Colston]

Hey, I was just wondering if anyone has any experience using logs off of your own land, family land, or just logs that were given to you and taking them down to the local sawmill and on to a kiln? I was just offered several large walnut trees on the family farm because they have become a hassle to mow around. :D It won't be a big deal to cut them down and get them to one of the local sawmills, but I guess first of all I have some questions.

1. Is it cost effective to get your own logs milled and kiln dried vs. just buying already dried from the local kiln?

Lower priced woods like Red Oak or Pine might not be as cost efficient but for higher cost woods like Walnut, definitely...especially as you have several to mill. The mill I take timber to has a minimum cost which equals the cost to saw up around 400 bf.

2. What kind of price should be expected for milling and drying?

$0.30 per BF is what I pay for sawing to 5/4. Kiln drying will add to that cost.

3. What is the most appropriate length and width to have the wood milled to prior to heading to the kiln?

I cut my timbers to 12' lengths and the width is whatever the log will yield.

4. Are most mills capable of quarter-sawing logs on request?

Capable, yes...willing, maybe.

5. Is there any general info I should know before I head into this?

IMHO, air dried Walnut is much more beautiful than kiln dried. I would definitely save at least some of it for air drying.

I'm fairly excited about this proposition, and it will be really neat to have a significant amount of wood off of the family farm, but I don't really want to start the process clueless. :confused:

Good luck.

Oh yeah,.......you suck! :)

[Richard M. Wolfe]

Looked at from a monetary standpoint considering the cost of walnut it will most likely be advantageous to have it cut. That is, unless you end up with two or three thousand feet of lumber with no place to put it and you use about a couple hundred feet a year with no market for the excess. :) As far as cost of milling you will just have to check in your area. More heavily timbered areas of the country have more mills with more competition between mills, hence lower milling costs.

It is also an advantage to air dry walnut from most peoples standpoint as it makes better looking lumber than kiln dried. Commercially walnut is steamed which causes the sapwood to turn to be much like the heartwood but many do not like it as the heartwood degrades in appearance to a "muddy" color. With air dried walnut there is a distinct difference between heartwood and sapwood and unless you like the contrast in your work a lot will have to cut out. Considering air drying and insects you are ging into the best time of year to deal with it. Intial drying will be slowed, leading to less checking and borers will not be active. Sapwood of walnut is susceptible to powder post beetle activity in the future so keep an eye on it even when dried to finish lumber conditions. As far as the size of timbers a lot depends on the size you can handle. You can always cut a board shorter but the reverse ain't so, but keeing a long long board flat stacked properly is sometimes a problem. Cut some of it to thick stock; one of the most maddening things is not having stock for table legs, etc.

There should be no problem if the with the logs laying for a few days. Get some Anchorseal or at least some heavy latex paint to coat the log ends after felling to help keep checking to a minimum. It might be a good idea to lay the logs down beforehand to check the quality, especially if you are going to have a mill on site - the older and/or bigger the tree the more likely it is to have a pithy or even hollow heart.

Do you have a suitable place for drying and a suitable number and kind of stickers? I won't go into a lot of detail here as there is a lot of information you can google other than to say as far as stickers is concerned more is generally better. If you will take a rough measure or estimate of log diameter and length there are calculators online, such as the Woodweb sebsite, to use to get an idea of the lumber the log will yield. Just keep in mind if you use them the figures are for optimum yield which is seldom the case.

So is it worth it? If you have the time and resources to do it even if you don't do all the operations (milling) the satisfaction of using lumber from your own logs offsets a lot of aggravations. Good luck with the project.

[Josiah Bartlett]

If you have time and space, consider air drying the walnut all the way. I was in a similar situation to you- I had to take down 3 trees. I rough slabbed my planks into 8/4 + sections with a rip chain and a guide, and stickered and stacked them. 5 years later I'm resawing and using it, it is gorgeous stuff, very stable, and didn't warp much. All it cost me was time and gas for the chain saw. I've heard that air dried walnut looks better than KD.

I don't know if you want to wait 3-4 years to use your wood, but if you don't have immediate plans for it air drying is the way to go.

[Rick Fisher]

I find this really interesting..

I am clearing a building lot in the next 2 months.. The standing timber was traded for Excavation etc.. all but one really big, ugly western maple.. which the fella agreed to saw up for me into 8/4 x 10' long slabs..

My plan was to sticker it and place it in a warehouse for a long time.. A really long time.. There should be about 1000 bf..

Let me know if you do this..

[Scott T Smith]

First off, thanks for such fasts resonse





yes, I agree, I asked because there is a good chance we could grab a couple oak trees while were out there.

OK - this makes sense. I would definitely QS the oaks.



Yes, they are monsters, no low branches; big, tall and straight. I won't have to pay anyone to fell or haul them.

DEFINE "Monster"... Most commercial mills or portable band mills don't like to work logs much over 30" in diameter. For true "monster" logs, you will either need to quarter / third them manually with a chainsaw, or find someone with a swing-blade mill to mill them for you.



How much/ what kind of degrade will I have if we fell on Day 1 and can't get to the mill for a few days?

Not that big of a deal, the key thing is to get the ends sealed as early in the process as possible. I would recommend a commercial end sealer such as Anchor Seal over latex paint. Purchased in 5 gallon batches from either US Coatings or Baileys, it is not much more than a 5 gallon pail of Latex.

If you can't end seal quickly, then the next best thing is - when you are ready to apply the sealer - saw the end of the log off so that you will have a fresh surface for sealing. This removes the checks that have already started.

Checks in the end of a log / board are like cracks in glass. Once they start, they tend to keep growing. If you can keep them from getting started in the first place, you will end up with more usable lumber.


Will I have significantly better results if I do air-dry for a year prior to kiln? What if it was air-dried for a shorter period, like 6 months prior to the kiln?

For the walnut, I would suggest air drying first as it really lends itself to air drying.

As to the rest, it depends upon the type of kiln that you will be using, as well as the quality of your boards. There are three different types of commercial kilns - conventional (high temperature), dehumidification, and vacume. If you plan on using a conventional kiln, air drying the oak before hand may be beneficial. If you will be using a DH or vacume kiln, you will often have a superior end product on the oak (albeit slightly more expensive) if you get it directly into the kiln. The reason why is that for maximum quality oak needs to be dried very slowly, especially from the time when it is green to the time that it reaches 35% MC. When air drying, you have no control over the drying rate, and surface checks can and will develop if the drying rate is too fast. Using a kiln - especially a low temperature DH kiln - allows the kiln operator to "slow" down the drying process in the early stages, thus improving the end result. With faster drying species such as walnut, there is much less risk to air drying.

DH and Vacume kiln drying also do not change the color in walnut the way that a high temp steam injected kiln does.

Re board quality, much wood movement during the drying process occurs due to defects in the board (such as knots or close proximity to knots or pith wood). If you have very clean, straight lumber with no knots or pithwood, it will usually dry straight and flat in a well run kiln. Lower quality boards with defects may deflect more near the defects during the KD process than air dried boards. Thus, lower grade boards may be better off initially air dried (presuming that you can keep them from drying too quickly). From my experience, you may experience more cup in wide air dried boards as compared with kiln dried boards.

How long should it take to air dry from green to 35%?

This is not a simple question to answer... What part of the country are you in, and the operative word in your question is "should" as opposed to "will".

The answer is that it depends upon the species and thickness of the board, as well as the temperature, relative humidity, and airflow around your stacks. It also depends on if you are measuring the MC% at the shell or in the core of the board, or both.

4/4 oak "should" be dried at a rate of about 3% MC reduction per day. 4/4 walnut "should" be dried at a rate of 8% per day. 8/4 oak "should" be dried at a rate of only 1.2% per day. Now here is the kicker. During the hot summer months in many parts of the country, if you have a lot of airflow across your stack the shell of the boards "will" dry much faster than the core, causing degrade.

There is an "old wives tale" about lumber taking a year per inch of thickness to air dry. Despite the fact that Dr. Eugene Wengert, Professor Joe Denig, and other experts have repeatedly refuted it, somehow it lives on.

For most species of 4/4 wood, in a stacked, stickered environment with a gentle air flow through your stack (less than a 15 degree deflection of a handkerchief held on the back side of the stack) and in most parts of the country you will air dry from green to 35%MC (shell and core) in less than 45 days. The key challenge is the drying rate. Too quick, and the shell dries significantly faster than the core and checks will develop.

As a comparison, in my DH kiln from green down to 35% MC 5/4 oak will be kept at around 90 degrees F and 85% or higher relative humidity, with a 250FPM airflow through the stacks. Any higher temps, lower RH or faster airflow may damage the wood. My target is 2.5% - 3% MC reduction per day, with no more than a 2 point delta between the shell and core moisture content percentages. I strive for less than a 1% delta.





This is probably too much information - my apologies if I'm over-answering your questions.

[Greg Portland]

Look for guys with portable mills if you just have a few trees. Caveat: portable band mills can't (easily) produce quarter sawn lumber.

[cody michael]

i have any wood i can find sawed and dried locally about 28 cents bd. ft. each i think 56 cents bd. ft. cut and dried. so compare that to buying wood and its way cheaper

[lou sansone]

only thing to add is I like to saw my trees to 8 or 10 foot at the most for furniture building. any longer than that is a pain to move around and sort for furniture.

Lou

[Jeff Nicol]

My Dad bought a Woodmizer LT30 in 1985 and we have been sawing on it ever since! We did some custom sawing for people and wore ourselves out for the first 10 years! It paid for itself and lots of other tools over the years! So I agree with finding a local who has a band mill that would come to your site so you don't have to haul the logs. I bought the mill from my Dad 11 years ago and still love sawing, I have roughly 20,000 BdFt of lumber of many dimensions and types on hand and use it for everything and sell some to friends and relatives. The walnut is definitly a good thing to saw on a band mill as you won't waste much wood. But to respond to being able to quarter saw on the band mill, I have been doing it for years and it is pretty easy to do, I did 3500 bdft for a guy who had some of the nicest white oak I have ever seen! He did his whole house with the flooring he had milled from it, it was a sight to see when it was complete!

If I did not live so far away and was younger and in better shape (bad shoulders and knees now) I would love to help you out!

Good luck,

Jeff

[James Evans]

This summer i harvested a black walnut. here is a list of my expenses.

Tree 27" diameter 7 various length logs total of 400 ft. $200.00
sawing $60.00
Kiln drying and surfaces on 2 sides 191.00
$60 for gas

total of 511.00 for 400 ft. not terrible

[Frank Drew]

Great suggestions from everyone, particularly with respect to end-coating the logs and proper stacking and stickering the sawn lumber.

I agree with Lou on the 8-10 foot length recommendation, at least for furniture use. More than that I've dealt with but found generally not worth the extra handling/storing trouble.

I like flitch sawing (sawing through-and-through), cutting thicker stock closer to the pith; that way you'll have great looking, flat-sawn panel/table board stock, and dimension stuff for legs, etc. There's nothing better, IMO, than being able to make the entire project out of wood from the same tree.

If you do decide to saw for width, the larger the log's diameter, the thicker your "thin" boards should be because at least a little bit of cupping should be anticipated. If you'll be getting boards 20" and larger, then I'd want them 5/4 or thereabouts.

Good luck!

[Mike Cruz]

Sorry, I don't have time to read everyone's replies (I have to get out to mey shop...) but the short answer, IMO, is that is it cost effective, however, you will spend a lot of time. If you subscribe to "time is money", then, no, it isn't cheaper. If you don't have $5 to spend per board foot of material, but have time to cut down the trees, drag them to your trailer, load them on, haul them to the mill, wait for them to get milled and dried, then go pick them up without being able to select the pieces you want, then, yes, it might be worth it.

Oh, did I mention you will likely get way to much or just not quite enough wood out of one tree for a project. If it is the way too much scenario, you'll end up making a bunch of other projects out of that wood, not because you wanted them to be that kind, but because you needed to get rid of it.

The last factor, may be that you have to take a look at how much storage space you have.

That said, I've had walnut and maple milled for me from my trees. I plan to have a cherry or two done.

There is a certain pride you get when you finish a project and know that not only did you make it, but you also saw the project through from cutting the tree down, on. And that the wood is from right out back.

Hope that helps.