14" BS selection

[Mac McQuinn]

I'm currently looking at 14" bandsaws and would like some input on experiences with these (3) saws;

1) Powermatic 14" http://content.powermatic.com/whitepapers/1791216k_whitepaper.pdf

2) Jet 14" http://www.jetwilton.com/us/manufacturing/en/product_jet.html?node=327&product=706

3) Grizzly 14" http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2009/Main/93

They all seem to have benefits and downfalls. There's also some good prices on these in the next few weeks. All three are made in Taiwan. I'd love to own a European saw although new pricing is out of my league and used European 14" saws are few and far between.

Thanks,

Mac

[Cliff Holmes]

I own the PM and I have to say I'm not impressed. Motor's a pain to align in the cramped cabinet, missing paint, badly misaligned wheels. If I had to do it again, I'd definitely go Grizzly instead.

[Steve Walls]

Can't speak to the ones, you listed, I have a Delta, been happy with that. Rikon has one on special for a couple more days, http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2020041/18855/Rikon-14-Deluxe-Bandsaw.aspx might be woth looking in to.

[Ed Hazel]

According to this post http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=125424 the Griz G0457 is on sale for $795 with free shipping. Phone orders only Promo Code 09WOODM listed in wood magazine.

Might sway you towards the Grizz

[Mac McQuinn]

Ed,
I'm the OP on that thread and yes, it is moving me in that direction. I'm just trying to keep my options open till i pull the trigger.
thanks,

Mac


According to this post http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=125424 the Griz G0457 is on sale for $795 with free shipping. Phone orders only Promo Code 09WOODM listed in wood magazine.

Might sway you towards the Grizz

[Michael Peet]

I have the Powermatic and have to agree with Cliff. My wheels are okay but the table isn't that flat and the motor really is a pain. It will serve until a big Euro saw works its way to the top of the priority list.

Bearings on one of the wheels went right away, although it was taken care of quickly. They actually sent a guy to fix it.

Mike

[Bill Huber]

I have the Powermatic and have to agree with Cliff. My wheels are okay but the table isn't that flat and the motor really is a pain. It will serve until a big Euro saw works its way to the top of the priority list.

Bearings on one of the wheels went right away, although it was taken care of quickly. They actually sent a guy to fix it.

Mike


I own the PM and I have to say I'm not impressed. Motor's a pain to align in the cramped cabinet, missing paint, badly misaligned wheels. If I had to do it again, I'd definitely go Grizzly instead.


I can fix that motor adjustment PITA problem.


http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=79483&highlight=band

[chris dub]

I have the PM with the riser, and like it. I got a tri-master blade and it resaws nicely. I got it for a good price on craigslist. If I was going to pay near reatail I'd have gone with the Grizzly or even the Rikon 14" (even though its not on the list.)

[Alex Shanku]

A cheaper, and better imo, alternative to the three you have posted is to take a look for an old Delta 14" or Powermatic 141.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I have a PM 14" with riser, and I'm pretty happy. Everything needs adjustment. Haven't run others, so cannot comment on that. You may want to look at the Rikon 14". I just seen them on sale at W/C. They are pretty cheap, and out of the box has more resaw capacity than my PM wth riser.

[ken gibbs]

I bought a Griz 0555 14" heavy duty bandsaw. ITs the heavy duty 14" version with cast iron wheels, resaw fence, 1 1/2 hp, and al the bells and whistles. I love it. For about $750 delivered with portable base, its a deal. Good service and easy to change blades.

[Larry Edgerton]

Mac

I have a old Delta 14" from the sixtys that has a gear reduction setup from the factory in an enclosed stand that I am replacing with a industrial saw, and I have been tossing the idea around of selling the old one. I have not had a chance to play with the new one yet but am going home this weekend and will be moving it to my new shop.

I'll think about what I am going to do and will let you know. As far as I am concerned the old Delta is better than any of the ones that you listed, but I need larger capability. I don't really have room in my new shop for multiples, much as I would like to keep the old saw around.

Just a thought......

[Cliff Holmes]

Everything needs adjustment.

I have to disagree on that. I have five pieces of Grizzly equipment and other than tightening a few setscrews, only one needed anything done at all.

Look, I'm not saying the PM sucks or that the Grizzly is worlds better. But, in my experience, PM is usually not worth the extra money. You don't really get your money's worth.

And it's not like I'm anti-PM. I just dropped a major chunk of change on a 3520b lathe. But in that case the PM *is* a major step above the competitors. I played with several different lathes and everything else felt quite a bit less substantial.

[Lance Norris]

I have the Grizzly G0457 and its excellent. I have been very happy with it. Ive owned it for several years now and have used it extensively. It has plenty of power and was great right out of the box. I posted a review on Amazon shortly after buying it and my feelings havent changed since then. If you have a specific questions about it, just ask...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41H5RKMPD7L._SL110_.jpg

58 of 58 people found the following review helpful:
http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/x-locale/common/customer-reviews/stars-5-0._V47081849_.gif Great Bandsaw with only one complaint., October 16, 2006

I have owned this bandsaw since May 06 and have used it extensively. It is an excellent bandsaw and a great deal for the price. When I chose this saw, I was looking at the Jet 14" and Delta 14" saws. Delta seems to be having quality problems with many of their products at the moment, so that stopped me from buying a Delta. I really like Jet equipment and have several Jet machines, all of which are excellent, but for the money, this Grizzly is a hard deal to beat. The Grizzly comes standard with a fence, a tall resaw fence, and ball bearing blade guides, all of which are extra cost from Jet.

On to the review of the bandsaw. Arriving freight in 2 boxes, the closed stand in one and the completely assembled saw in the other, the only assembly needed is the table, motor, and saw to base.

Base. The base has a shelf inside for storage. The handle is a quick release push button. Leveling feet are included for the base.

Saw. This is a heavy piece. I carried the saw into my basement by myself and I wish now I would have had help. I managed to get it into place with no injury, but again, this saw is very heavy, over 200 pounds. One thing you will quickly notice, there is no electrical plug on the end of the power cord. Im sure this is done so you can match the plug to your chosen outlet and wiring voltage (110/220 volt) I chose the 220 volt option and had a plug from Lowes for about $5. Setup is quick and in about 2 hours had everything ready to roll. The blade Grizzly gives you is junk. Buy several good blades and you will be very impressed with the ability of the saw. I started out with a 3/4 2 tooth per inch blade for resawing and an 1/8 inch 14 tooth for scroll work. Right away, I was very pleased with the 3/4 blade, resawing was a breaze and results were amazing. I have never resawed anything, but was taking 1/8 inch slices from 7 inch thick hard maple. These cut off pieces were consistant in thickness and no bowing of the cut. Resawing is a very hard operation for a bandsaw to perform and the Grizzly handles it with ease. This saw has a 2 horsepower motor and it never strains, even in the hard maple. Very pleased.

Now to the 1/8 inch blade. This is where I ran into problems. The upper blade guide wont back out far enough for such a small blade. The blade guides have 2 roller bearings on each side, for a total of four for each upper and lower blade guides. The saw is rated to handle an 1/8 inch blade, but to do so, you are supposed to be able to set the blade guide back far enough so the teeth dont contact the sides of the bearings. The upper blade guides will not go far enough back to do this. The bracket for the bottom blade guides has some adjustability and I was able to move them far enough back out of the way, but not the top. I was able to overcome this problem, actually in 2 different ways. The first was to remove the 2 front bearings in the upper guide assembly and have bushings made to replace the space the 2 front bearing occupied. The second and better option was to buy the Carter Bandsaw Stabilizer, which is a replacement for the upper blade guide assembly, and is used for 1/8-1/4 inch blades. This stabilizer should be standard equipment for any bandsaw where a small blade is going to be used. It controls these small blades with much better stability than the stock guides will allow. It is available for many bandsaw brands. I eventually have found a blade I like for all general purpose cutting operations. It is a 1/4 inch 4 tooth blade and I use the Carter Stabilizer with this blade. Blade tracking is simple, but there is no tracking window. A quick tension release lever is included. The tension guide seems to be inaccurate on the small blade end, I have actually had to use much more tension for small blades than the gauge indicates, on large blades, it seems correct, but I think many bandsaws have this fault. You need to experiment with tension and see what works best for your saw. A miter gauge is included. Nicely balanced cast iron wheels are used. Overall the fit and finish is excellent and the saw gives you the feeling of quality in every way. Castings are very heavy, there is no plastic used in any critical parts.

Having a bandsaw in your shop will allow so many different cutting operations that you should not be without one. I am very happy with my Grizzly and would recommend this saw to anyone with the need for a high performance bandsaw capable of resawing and delicate scroll work for under $1,000. Since no one had posted a review yet of this excellent saw, I felt I had to.

[Larry Fox]

A cheaper, and better imo, alternative to the three you have posted is to take a look for an old Delta 14" or Powermatic 141.

+1 here. I have no experience with the older Deltas but the PM 141 is a fantastic saw. A riser block is not an option with this saw though.

[Callan Campbell]

I have the 14" Rikon, bought it in 2007 and have regretted nothing except that I didn't take the plunge and buy a bandsaw years sooner. I think it's worth a look even though it's not on your short list in your post. You're really getting alot of European machine features at a great price
Lots of thoughtful features that not every salesman will take the time to explain to you. The Speed changing via the belt is a breeze since you're just working a knob to change the motor drive belt, you also get a decent lever for blade tension quick-release and a window in the upper section to watch blade alignment on your upper wheel. I and others who own this BS scratched our heads when Fine Woodworking rated the guides as difficult to change/adjust during a blade change, really not sure what that was about. Carter is now making upgrade items for this Bandsaw, but there's not really much to "upgrade" for regular cutting operations.
I really like the slot alignment on the table for easier blade changes. No twisting needed for your blade change out.
Resaw capacity is very good, 1 1/2HP motor is strong and runs quiet and the guide post adjustment with its rack gear set-up makes for fast height adjustments.
I was ready to buy the Powermatic in 2007, priced everything out and then left one store and headed to another to look at the Rikon brand. I'd never heard of them, and once I compared the two Bandsaws, I promptly bought the Rikon and I never really looked back.

[Stephen Edwards]

[QUOTE=.....I really like the slot alignment on the table for easier blade changes. No twisting needed for your blade change out. [/QUOTE]

Though I don't have this Rikon BS, everyone that I talked with who does have it seems to be perfectly satisfied with it.

The slot position on the Grizzly BS's are not an issue to me. I never twist the blade when changing blades. Rather, I remove the table every time I need to change a blade. When it's turned 90 degrees the slot is parallel with the blade and I move the table off the blade rather than vice verse.

Why do I do that? I find that it's much less frustrating and much quicker to realign the guide bearings after a blade change with the table removed. It takes less than a minute to remove the table. Then, I have easy access to the lower guide bearings instead of having to "fight" them from underneath the mounted table.

Once the guide bearings have been realigned, another minute to put the table back on and I'm ready to saw!

[Mac McQuinn]

PM'd you Larry,

Mac


Mac

I have a old Delta 14" from the sixtys that has a gear reduction setup from the factory in an enclosed stand that I am replacing with a industrial saw, and I have been tossing the idea around of selling the old one. I have not had a chance to play with the new one yet but am going home this weekend and will be moving it to my new shop.

I'll think about what I am going to do and will let you know. As far as I am concerned the old Delta is better than any of the ones that you listed, but I need larger capability. I don't really have room in my new shop for multiples, much as I would like to keep the old saw around.

Just a thought......

[Larry Edgerton]

PM me a phone # and I will call you when I am home this weekend.

[Mac McQuinn]

PM'd you Larry,

Thanks for the consideration,

Mac

[Bob Borzelleri]

My Delta is about 9 years old now. Only complaint I've had is the miserable dust collection port (1.5"). If I can build a suitable dust collection box (4" outlet), I'll add a 6" riser block and keep this thing for a long time. If not, I would be looking at a Rikon or Grizzly.

[Dan Mitchell]

2nd time I've written this today:

I have the G0457 & love it. Just resawed some ~9" walnut with ease. Plus it has a precision, high-grade feel I love in machines. FWW gave it "Best value" in a 14" BS comparo. I can email you a PDF of the article, if you'd like. Let me know.

Dan

[Mac McQuinn]

Dan,
I have no reason to doubt your word and I'm heavily considering the GO457 myself although Popular Woodworking didn't give it as good a marks as FWW. Wish I could have been a fly on the wall when the testers were putting all these saws through their paces....;)

Mac


2nd time I've written this today:

I have the G0457 & love it. Just resawed some ~9" walnut with ease. Plus it has a precision, high-grade feel I love in machines. FWW gave it "Best value" in a 14" BS comparo. I can email you a PDF of the article, if you'd like. Let me know.

Dan

[Dan Mitchell]

Dan,
I have no reason to doubt your word and I'm heavily considering the GO457 myself although Popular Woodworking didn't give it as good a marks as FWW. Wish I could have been a fly on the wall when the testers were putting all these saws through their paces....;)

Mac

Mac - I just meant a lot of people seem to be considering it, since I posted about it twice today ;) I really like mine a lot, great saw!

I just read the PW comments re: flex in the table & the trunnions. I've never noticed this, & I just went out & yanked on mine fairly hard as a test. I don't get any of the give they're referring to. I've had the table off fairly often when changing blades (just tonight, in fact) everything seems beefy enough to my eye, not that I have the mag guy's experience, of course. Maybe there was a problem with the PW example, or maybe there was a design change before the FWW article, which was about a year after the PW one (9-10/2007, for FWW's). I got my saw last summer, or about 2 years after the PW review. I'm pretty picky about quality (some might say OBSESSIVE ;-) And I really think this is a well executed machine.

Dan

[Larry Edgerton]

Mac

Its a Model 28-300, ser. # KL7337 Oh Ya, Its a Rockwell.

[Mac McQuinn]

I still have not purchased a Bandsaw although decided to include 17" and smaller saws to my growing list. The Grizzly GO513 and GO457 are getting the most attention although I'm a bit concerned about shipping disasters and the inability to actually view the items before purchasing. While a few SMC'ers have the GO457 saw, feedback seems a bit lacking. Wood publication reviews are sparse and the two I've read are inconsistent on ratings. The GO513 basic model has very good reviews overall although I'm hesitant due to the aluminum wheels, blade guides and fence configuration. I know the 513X2 model addresses these concerns although at a price....

I've looked at the new Jet "Triangular" 18" saws knowing they make a similar saw in 16" sizing. They appear to be well built,finished & well reinforced and I'm not sure why their not more popular @ SMC.....although a street price of around $1100 w/o fence or miter might explain things.

I've looked locally for used saws without success, my area is sparse for anything worth looking at.

I've set a limit of $850-900 and would appreciate any feedback on saws I've mentioned or something you think might fill my needs. Plus if anyone is serious about selling a well maintained saw in my price range which fills my requirements, please PM me.

Thanks,
Mac

[Doug Lochner]

I had a Grizzly bandsaw and recently sold it and purchased a Rikon Model 10-325 "14" Delux Bandsaw" on sale at Wood craft for $699.
(I went in the store for some hinges and noticed the 10-325 was on sale, it is a pretty impressive saw for the price. I did a bunch of research here and elsewhere and decided to trade up from my Grizzly)

The Rikon is a much better saw than the Grizzly (G0555) was. One of the wood working mag's complained about its bearing guide adjustment - I have no idea why - it takes a only few minutes to change and tune a new blade - super easy.

13" of resaw, ample power, a nice fence and a host of features not found on other saws in the price range. I have no regrets on the Rikon. It is a lot of saw for the money.

I have a friend that has a Jet 14" he is selling because he liked my Rikon so much he is getting one. If you are set on a new 14" saw, I'd suggest you look at the Rikon. If you want a used Jet 14" (located in Southern California) PM me and I'll get you in touch with my friend.

Good luck...

[Bob Aquino]

Mac
You don't list where you live so it's kinda hard to point you to anything that might be local. I am not a fan of chinese equipment, and would tell you to look for an older American made saw such as a Delta, Powermatic, Walker-Turner or if you get very lucky, an Oliver or one of the larger industrial saws. The other alternative would be one of the Italian saws such as a Minimax or Laguna. Scarcity is relative. If you only want to drive an hour or so, you may not find much. I would spend a day driving to come home with a tool I would keep for many years. I have, 14 hours on the road for my tablesaw last year was the longest I have traveled so far. I would also be willing to invest some time and energy fixing one up if it wasn't in the best shape when I got it. But that's me. Most of the folks here treat power tools like kitchen appliances, they want them shiny, clean and new with a warranty. That does tend to limit your choices some.

BTW, Larry's saw is a Delta Wood/Metal version and its highly sought after by folks that are in the know. They didn't make too many of them and new it went for well over a grand due to all the expensive reduction gearing in the base.

Here are my two "Kids", a Rockwell 20" and a Delta Homecraft 10". The Rockwell is an 80's vintage and the Homecraft is a 50' vintage. I leave a wide blade in the Rockwell for resaw and a 1/4" in the Delta for all the small jobs:


http://lh3.ggpht.com/_nh7rpc89jO0/SoNVb7CILjI/AAAAAAAAHoo/DLwPWQEgGns/s800/P1040241.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_nh7rpc89jO0/SMxQMjH0YHI/AAAAAAAAEQ4/lUpNpKtNsqE/s800/P1030344.JPG

[Mac McQuinn]

I had a Grizzly bandsaw and recently sold it and purchased a Rikon Model 10-325 "14" Delux Bandsaw" on sale at Wood craft for $699.
(I went in the store for some hinges and noticed the 10-325 was on sale, it is a pretty impressive saw for the price. I did a bunch of research here and elsewhere and decided to trade up from my Grizzly)

The Rikon is a much better saw than the Grizzly (G0555) was. One of the wood working mag's complained about its bearing guide adjustment - I have no idea why - it takes a only few minutes to change and tune a new blade - super easy.

13" of resaw, ample power, a nice fence and a host of features not found on other saws in the price range. I have no regrets on the Rikon. It is a lot of saw for the money.

I have a friend that has a Jet 14" he is selling because he liked my Rikon so much he is getting one. If you are set on a new 14" saw, I'd suggest you look at the Rikon. If you want a used Jet 14" (located in Southern California) PM me and I'll get you in touch with my friend.

Good luck...

Doug,
Thanks for the owner info on the Rikon. You've cleared up some questions I had regarding the guides on the saw as two publications had different opinions regarding this, one giving the saw great marks and one not.

Mac

[Mac McQuinn]

Bob,
Sorry for the location omit, I'm in Mid-Michigan. I'll have to revise my profile. Your two saws show a lot of pride of ownership, nice job! I'm sure they are tuned and work as well as they look.

I'm looking at all saws which fit my needs, new or used although know I'll get more saw for the buck used than new. I'm prepared to travel some and have a truck. As far as new saws go, I'm not interested in Chinese saws either although without getting political, I don't have a problem with well thought out & finished Taiwanese tools.

As far as buying an older American BS which needs work, I have no problem getting my hands dirty, I did it for a living 34 years before retiring. I will ask basic questions though before purchasing and will investigate the reputation, quality and parts availability of said tool before purchasing.

As I've stated, I have a budget of $850-900.00 and finding a Italian BS for this might be a stretch to say the least although I'm not oblivious to a bargain:rolleyes:. I was spoiled a few years back when I had the opportunity to use an old Junior High School Wood shop, furnished with 100% Oliver machinery. Closed due to whatever, all equipment was in remarkable condition and ran as such. As far as I know the machinery still sits, mostly unused.

Thanks for your comments,
Mac

[Doug Lochner]

Doug,
Thanks for the owner info on the Rikon. You've cleared up some questions I had regarding the guides on the saw as two publications had different opinions regarding this, one giving the saw great marks and one not.

Mac
You are welcome.. That is the beauty of this forum, hearing from people that actually own and use equipment you are considering. Info on here was one of the factors that encouraged me to try the Rikon. As you will see in hundreds of post, their tech support is superb. They really bend over backwards to make you happy with their products.

Just after I picked up the Rikon I came across a used Agazzani N'RA 20" saw made in Italy. It was a bit rough but a great deal, so I picked it up. While reconditioning the N'RA I noticed Rikon copied several of the Agazzani features including the straight blade slot in the table.

I've owned saws with side slots (where you need to bend the blade or remove the insert to change blades, (as is required with Grizzly's, Deltas, Jets)). The straight slot design is much better. Blade changes are quick and very easy, so you end up changing blades instead of "living" with less than an idea blade for a few quick cuts.

I noticed you have expanded your search to include 17" saws. There are definite advantages to larger wheels on bandsaws including increased blade life and the ability to tension wider blades. Of course, the longer blades cost more. (My 20" takes blades over 13 feet long). Used bandsaws can be a great deal, but you need to balance that with the lack of a warranty and how much time & effort is needed to get the machine "like new". If you enjoy tinkering, a used saw can be a great project. Just make sure the wheel bearings are good by untensioning the blade and checking for play in the wheels. Craigslist is a great resource for used equipment. Recently here in Southern California I've seen ads for several good used saws including a Laguna 16" for $600.

Good luck in your quest.

[Doug Lochner]

Just an FYI - Grizzly is having a special on the G0513 - 17" Heavy-Duty Band saw at $715 + 89 shipping. Use Special Price Code: 09WOODM.

[Rich Enders]

My only experience is with the Rigid, and it should be included in your list.