Pre Hung Interior Door Problems

[Darrell Bade]

Not sure if this goes in this forum, but I did not see one any more specific.

I am hanging pre hung interior doors in my basement. Following all the instructions I have found I have been nailing the hinge side up with it shimmed plumb and level then working around the door to get the gap right. My problem is that when I get all that right the door is not tight against the stop on the latch side when the door is closed. The door is tight against the stop at the bottom and out about 1/4" from the stop at the top. I cannot seem to get this shimmed out without moving the lock jam so that it is not flush with the drywall which will just cause me grief at trim time.

Can anyone tell me what I am missing?

[Craig McCormick]

Sounds like your door may be plumb but not your wall? Sometimes when hanging doors we compromise between the level/plumb and and what looks pleasing to the eye.

I have hung a few doors where we finally just set the level aside and hung them by eye.

We have also installed the casing on one side and then slide the door into the opening get it as close as possible with the level and nail it in place.

Good luck,

Craig McCormick

[Jason Roehl]

There are a couple of possibilities. One is that there is a slight twist to the door. The other is that there is a slight twist to the wall, which is more likely from what I've seen in construction. At that point, you can go all out and tear out drywall and studs and start over, or do what most carpenters do and split the difference. For the door to work correctly, it has to be plumb, level and square. Where it sits in the opening is up to you for looks. You may have to set it so that the jamb sits proud of the drywall on one side at the bottom, and a little proud of the drywall on the other side at the top. Then you can use a hand plane to shave the jamb down flush. I see a lot of carpenters then use a hammer to convince the drywall to sit flush with the jamb where it is proud of the jamb.

[Prashun Patel]

Post a pic.
My instinct is that the abutting studs that support yr jamb are out of plumb.

You should be shimming your jamb plumb. If that means your trim needs to cover the gap between the drywall and the jamb, so be it; that's what it's there for.

If you have time, you might consider using screws instead of nails. They make it possible to adjust the plumbness slightly, and (better still) they are easily removable. Not as fast as nails, but more controllable IMHO for guys like me, who are only hanging a handful of doors in their own homes.

[Peter Quinn]

Frankly if the door swings OK I would just pull the stops and reset them. Sure, things need to be fairly plumb and mostly level, but this is a door in a house, not NASA. If the door gap at the bottom works versus the floor, the door doesn't hit the floor or open/close on its own, then it may be plumb enough, and reseting the stops a bit may be easier than banging the wall around, building an extension jamb on one side an shaving the other side to meet the wall plane. I assume the walls are sheet rock? Sometimes a whack on the bottom wall plate on the lock side with a sledge and a banger block can "encourage" the opening to more closely resemble plumb if things are a bit too far out to work.

I have an old house with 6 piece trim on both sides of all jambs, all of the head casings jack mitered in, plaster walls, and wainscot abutting several openings. With all that infrastructure to deal with I have come to accept what I have for a jamb. You can shim hinges a bit, you can actually "bend" the hinges a bit to move things around, you can play with stops, you can mortise one hinge a bit further back from the edge of the jamb. Lots of room for a little "english" if the walls won't behave.

[Neal Clayton]

i agree with shawn on using trim head screws. i use the ones from mcfeelys.

i also have a +100 year old house. no walls are level, or plumb, or even flat, there are humps and bumps everywhere since it's plaster. if the casing has to be twisted a bit to make the trim flush against the wall and the door frame, so be it. screws will pull it up.

[Paul Ryan]

I replaced 4 doors on the main floor of our house last year not one could be level. If I leveled the door frame then the gaps were all out of wack and the door was in the opening cock-eyed. So I just got it as close to level as I could and made all of the gaps the same. All of the doors work fine close nice but 2 of them when they are more than half open they wont stay they will open all of the way up. No big deal. That is what happens with 50 year old houses. MY parents 110 year old house is worse yet.

[Darrell Bade]

I have tried two doors. The first one the wall was as plumb as could be, but I did something with the bottom plate when framing that made me think that was the problem. To fix it I just cocked the jamb a little and was going to do the shave the drywall and work on the jamb to get it trimmed. Then I did another one and had the same issue. The framers did that wall and it was out of plumb a little bit. I hung the hinge side twice, once with the frame plumb and once with the hinge side out of plumb but following the wall thinking this would take care of it. No luck so I thought maybe I was doing something wrong. Have 3 more to hang so if I was doing something wrong I wanted to find out before continuing.

[Lee Schierer]

There are a couple of possibilities. One is that there is a slight twist to the door. The other is that there is a slight twist to the wall, which is more likely from what I've seen in construction. At that point, you can go all out and tear out drywall and studs and start over, or do what most carpenters do and split the difference. For the door to work correctly, it has to be plumb, level and square. Where it sits in the opening is up to you for looks. You may have to set it so that the jamb sits proud of the drywall on one side at the bottom, and a little proud of the drywall on the other side at the top. Then you can use a hand plane to shave the jamb down flush. I see a lot of carpenters then use a hammer to convince the drywall to sit flush with the jamb where it is proud of the jamb.

Houses are rarely plump and square, even the day after they are built. Older houses are worse in many cases than new because things sag over time. I agree with Jason though, split the difference before nailing the door in place, but unless you want a self closing or self opening door, make the hinge side plumb in two directions.

[scott vroom]

This is a common problem and easy to fix (as long as the stops are just tacked to the jamb and can be easily removed). Set the door so it swings freely inside the jamb, making sure the jamb is optimally positioned relative to the drywall - don't worry about the stops yet. Once the door is in place, pop off the stops and reset them against the door face at a position that allows the door latch to spring into the strike plate hole.

Hope this helps.

[bill mullin]

You should never have to move the stops.
The problem is the bottom plates are not aligned, or the door is warped or twisted.
Make the jambs align with the drywall at the top on both sides. This will make the mitres fit better.
Move the jambs in or out at the bottom of the door, a little on the hinge side, and a little the opposite way on the strike side.
Hold a piece of casing up on the side jambs with the correct reveal, and mark the outside of the casing on the wall.
Then beat down the drywall where needed, staying inside the line.

[Larry Rupert]

I hung a couple prehung oak doors yesterday. "Seemed like the same problem as you", but basically the door frame was just slightly twisted sitting in the rough opening. Straightened out the legs of the jambs, pulled in and out just slightly on the top corners of the frame where it is close to the drywall / studs, and everything was perfect.

Try very slightly moving the top corners of your frame in and out from the wall surface - bet you see a big difference. Larry

[scott vroom]

You should never have to move the stops.
The problem is the bottom plates are not aligned, or the door is warped or twisted.
Make the jambs align with the drywall at the top on both sides. This will make the mitres fit better.
Move the jambs in or out at the bottom of the door, a little on the hinge side, and a little the opposite way on the strike side.
Hold a piece of casing up on the side jambs with the correct reveal, and mark the outside of the casing on the wall.
Then beat down the drywall where needed, staying inside the line.

Damaging the drywall to fit the jamb is not recommended. Every pre-hung door I've installed came with the stops LIGHTLY tacked to the jamb so that they can be easily popped off and adjusted to the door face in situations like yours. Everyone has their preferred method, this is mine and I've found it to work well.

[Josiah Bartlett]

I have an unsquare old house too... I like to install the trim on one side of the door jamb before I even install it in the doorway. If the opening is in old plaster then you will want to grove the back of the trim and scribe it to the plaster. Then, shim the door in the normal way but don't nail it through the jamb yet, nail it through the trim. Then recheck (it shouldn't have moved), then take the hinges off and screw through the jamb under the hinges, then put them back on. Recheck, then nail, then install the trim on the other side.

I find that this method works perfectly for me, and avoids the problem of racking the jamb when nailing it. It gets a lot harder if you don't have wide trim, though.

[bill mullin]

Damaging the drywall to fit the jamb is not recommended. Every pre-hung door I've installed came with the stops LIGHTLY tacked to the jamb so that they can be easily popped off and adjusted to the door face in situations like yours. Everyone has their preferred method, this is mine and I've found it to work well.

Not recommended by who?
Scott, I've hung probably close to 2,000 pre-hung doors in my life, and none of them have the stops "lightly tacked". But my doors come from suppliers to professional builders, so I can't speak to the source of your doors.

The stops are applied to maintain the same distance from the outside face of the door blank, to the edge of the jamb. That is flush, or nearly so. A 1/4" deviation from the top to the bottom of the door WILL be noticeable, and unprofessional looking, and will create a problem at the strike.
I can assure you that "adjusting the drywall", rather than the stops, is the time honored method used by professionals. And will result in a more professional look when done properly.

As I mentioned earlier, it is best to do the adjustments at the bottom of the door. Making the top jambs flush with the drywall, will make the casing miters easier because the trim will lay flat on the wall and the casing.

[scott vroom]

I just re-read your original post....1/4" off at the stop is significant. You might try resetting the door to split the 1/4" difference between the top and bottom. In other words, bring your door back to plumb with the stop and you should be left with 1/8" difference from jamb edge to DW face at top and bottom which will not be a problem when applying casing.

[John Downey]

Personally, I hang doors such that:
1. Door is plumb at the hinges so that it stays where it it put! I can't stand doors that need to be wedged open.
2. Door latches easily and correctly. You should not have to lean on it to latch it, it should not pop when you open it.
I don't worry too much about pulling off the stop and re-setting it, or having to do extra work to make the trim fit right, its more important to get the door to work right. Heavy 4" screws and an impact driver do make the task much easier, as do plentiful shims. On interior doors where I'm making my own jamb, I usually apply the stop after hanging the door and use it to cover the screws.

I'm assuming this is your own house - you will be living with and using these doors for years, but you only need to do the trim once. Once you've done the trim you will have to look for the funny patches or stops not parallel to the jamb, but you'll remember the door not being hung plumb every time you have to push the bathroom door to latch it.

Professional trimmers often hang doors in such a way to minimize the amount of time they need to spend on the door. Not wanting to move stops, always line up with the wall. They're doing trim work over and over, and don't have to live with the results - the exact opposite of a home owner hanging his own doors. If you hear conflicting advice, this could be the cause of it.

[Peter Quinn]

Not recommended by who?
Scott, I've hung probably close to 2,000 pre-hung doors in my life, and none of them have the stops "lightly tacked". But my doors come from suppliers to professional builders, so I can't speak to the source of your doors.


As the junior member of a medium sized custom millwork operation that makes among other things hardwood doors, I have made only a few hundred prehung doors my self. The shop has made countless thousands, and not a single one of those has EVER had the stops permanently nailed off. These doors are sold mostly to builders and professional carpenters for installation in a variety of homes, some old work, some new, some renovation. The only doors I have seen with the stops nailed (or lord help me stapled) on permanently are of the mass produced sort that often have the lock holes bored and possible a strike plate installed too. Just how does one install mortised lock boxes in a door with round holes bored in it?

Anyway, I'm with Scott on the "nailed off stops not recommended" thing. Our customers would wring our necks if we started nailing off the stops. Framing is often a bit whacked, doors can warp a bit, drywall is not always perfect and plaster is rarely flat. Why would a good carpenter want to throw away one of the tools he has for fitting a door in an opening? I am no expert on field installations at all, but what I have learned from a few guys that are is that the stops are the LAST thing they nail off on each door once all other adjustments have been made and hardware installed.

[bill mullin]

As the junior member of a medium sized custom millwork operation that makes among other things hardwood doors, I have made only a few hundred prehung doors my self. The shop has made countless thousands, and not a single one of those has EVER had the stops permanently nailed off. These doors are sold mostly to builders and professional carpenters for installation in a variety of homes, some old work, some new, some renovation. The only doors I have seen with the stops nailed (or lord help me stapled) on permanently are of the mass produced sort that often have the lock holes bored and possible a strike plate installed too. Just how does one install mortised lock boxes in a door with round holes bored in it?

Anyway, I'm with Scott on the "nailed off stops not recommended" thing. Our customers would wring our necks if we started nailing off the stops. Framing is often a bit whacked, doors can warp a bit, drywall is not always perfect and plaster is rarely flat. Why would a good carpenter want to throw away one of the tools he has for fitting a door in an opening? I am no expert on field installations at all, but what I have learned from a few guys that are is that the stops are the LAST thing they nail off on each door once all other adjustments have been made and hardware installed.

Different ways of doing things in different areas I suppose.
If a carpenter can't install a pre-hung without moving the stops, then IMO he is not a good carpenter. Anybody could move the stops around and make a door fit, but that won't make the door fit properly. If the door is 1/3/8" thick, the stop should be set the same to make the slab flush with the jamb. I look at it like buying a car or anything else. Would you accept a new car with a door that doesn't sit flush with the body work? I wouldn't.

One supplier around here, Cox Interiors, mill in Kentucky, supplies them with the stops milled into the jamb! No moving those.
Edited to add:
The OP stated he had a 1/4" difference from top to bottom. You are arguing for moving the stop, and therefore the door slab 1/4". This willbe noticeable.
I am arguing for moving the jambs the proper amount, "adjusting" the drywall with a hammer. This will not be noticeable after applying the casing, and will have absolutely no structural effect.

At any rate, I gave him a free professional tip for hanging his door. If he wants to do it the amateur way, it's his business.

[Tim Mahoney]

No carpenter that makes his living in the trades would "reset" the stops. Doesn't matter where the doors come from. Home Depot or a custom shop. Training and experience teach us how to do it right given the difference in the framing. Make your adjustments in the drywall as suggested as it sounds like the rough framing is off. In other words the wall and opening is not plumb on each side or twisted. Most likely caused when the bottom plate was removed between the opening and the king stud/trimmers were not nailed enought to keep them in line after the plate section was removed. The days of carpenters doing the rough framing and also the finish work are mostly gone. The hackers doing the framing never hung a door so they don't care.

[bill mullin]

Personally, I hang doors such that:
1. Door is plumb at the hinges so that it stays where it it put! I can't stand doors that need to be wedged open.
2. Door latches easily and correctly. You should not have to lean on it to latch it, it should not pop when you open it.
I don't worry too much about pulling off the stop and re-setting it, or having to do extra work to make the trim fit right, its more important to get the door to work right. Heavy 4" screws and an impact driver do make the task much easier, as do plentiful shims. On interior doors where I'm making my own jamb, I usually apply the stop after hanging the door and use it to cover the screws.

I'm assuming this is your own house - you will be living with and using these doors for years, but you only need to do the trim once. Once you've done the trim you will have to look for the funny patches or stops not parallel to the jamb, but you'll remember the door not being hung plumb every time you have to push the bathroom door to latch it.

Professional trimmers often hang doors in such a way to minimize the amount of time they need to spend on the door. Not wanting to move stops, always line up with the wall. They're doing trim work over and over, and don't have to live with the results - the exact opposite of a home owner hanging his own doors. If you hear conflicting advice, this could be the cause of it.

John, speaking only for myself, you've got a couple things exactly backwards here.

I hang doors in such a way to minimize the amount of time I have to come back and fix problems I may have created. As a professional carpenter, I am obligated to "live with" every door I hang, for as long as the builder warranties the home. If I trim 10 homes a year, at 30 doors per home, that is 300 doors I have to live with for at least one year. Not to mention all the other work I do to the house.

I make 0 dollars for warranty calls. Therefore, I do my very best to do it right the first time.

[MR.MATTHEW ROUSE]

Hello,

Allow me to introduce myself.........I am a hacker that frames and I have set doors....lol

Seiously though I have only been doing carpentry for 23 years and I have found that there are usually several ways to do the same thing in many cases.

Use the method that best suits your situation and gives you the best result.

Whether it be sheetrock adjustment or moving the stops or shimming the hinges or other methods

[scott vroom]

In the words of Rodney King: "Can we all get along, can we all get along?".

lol

[John Downey]

[/B]

John, speaking only for myself, you've got a couple things exactly backwards here.

I hang doors in such a way to minimize the amount of time I have to come back and fix problems I may have created. As a professional carpenter, I am obligated to "live with" every door I hang, for as long as the builder warranties the home. If I trim 10 homes a year, at 30 doors per home, that is 300 doors I have to live with for at least one year. Not to mention all the other work I do to the house.

I make 0 dollars for warranty calls. Therefore, I do my very best to do it right the first time.

I'm sorry Bill, I did phrase that badly. It's easy to forget there are still good carpenters out there after cleaning up after so many of the bad ones!:D

[phil harold]

Not recommended by who?
Scott, I've hung probably close to 2,000 pre-hung doors in my life, and none of them have the stops "lightly tacked". But my doors come from suppliers to professional builders, so I can't speak to the source of your doors.

The stops are applied to maintain the same distance from the outside face of the door blank, to the edge of the jamb. That is flush, or nearly so. A 1/4" deviation from the top to the bottom of the door WILL be noticeable, and unprofessional looking, and will create a problem at the strike.
I can assure you that "adjusting the drywall", rather than the stops, is the time honored method used by professionals. And will result in a more professional look when done properly.

As I mentioned earlier, it is best to do the adjustments at the bottom of the door. Making the top jambs flush with the drywall, will make the casing miters easier because the trim will lay flat on the wall and the casing.

Me, another pro agrees with this

I have also sledge hammmered to plates into position on extreme cases

Another thought is the door warped or twisted?

Many homeowners think the can finish/paint one side of a newdoor let it dry and do the other side.
This will warp and twist a door

[Darrell Bade]

Lots of good and different information was given on this post. This is where I am at. One thing I have learned is to throw out the basic instructions that come with doors. They might work if everything is perfect but that is about the only way. It appears to me that you cannot just hang the hinge side level and then work around the door, the whole thing must be worked on at once.

I went on to a third door and followed bill mullins method. Loosely tacked the hinge and latch side at the top with the frame even with the drywall for ease of trimming down the road. Then started shimming the door down the hinge side to get it level while also checking that the door was agianst the stop with every adjustment. Amazing how a little shim here or there can make major changes with the stop. In the end I ended up with a door that stays open when it is suppose to and hits the stops perfectly. It would seem that perfectly level affects the ability of the door to say open much more than being perfectly plumb. I ended up with the drywall and jamb within a 1/16 or 1/8 at the most from being even which should not be a problem to trim.

As far as the option of moving the stop, this would be a last resort in my opinion. Even I could live with the crooked stop, the door slab would be sticking out of the frame and I just cannot imagine that looking right.

I will now go back to the original doors that gave me problems. One is only fastened on the hinge side so I will pop the bottom nails and see if I can get it straightened out.

Thanks for all your help and suggestions.