Barrel Hinges

[Betsy Yocum]

Ok - so you all know I'm hooked on making boxes (not just pencils) - I have made 4 small boxes and may have put the old cart before the mule. The hinge I originally thought I would use looks to big for my taste. So I'm switching to a barrell hinge.

A 10MM hinge I believe has a 2mm offset from the back of the box. I'm using a 5mm hinge - but if reason (my slanted reasoning anyway) follows that only gives a 1mm offset from the back which is mighty tiny. But I'm thinking that all barrell hinges may have that 2mm offset - am I right or wrong. I don't want to drill and make a mistake. I could experiment and will - but I thought you all might be able to save me a little aggravation.

Thanks.

[Michael Stafford]

Betsy, I have used some 5mm hinges before but I don't have any in stock right now or I can't find them(same thing). There should have been directions with the hinges when you recived them on the packet. Exact distance isn't that critical since you will have to 45 chamfer to make them open to 90. That is if we are talking about the same hinges. You also have to create a little clearance for the pivot pin in the hinge so it can seat properly. Dennis Peacock used them in his knife box so maybe he still has the directions...

[Betsy Yocum]

Thanks Mike - but these hinges came in a teeny little baggie with nothing but a price tag and the size marked.

What size bit did you use - the smallest metric fostener bit I have is 8mm?

Thanks again.

[Michael Stafford]

I bought mine through Rockler the first time and at that time I bought a 5mm bit. I suppose there is an English equivalent but without trial and error I would be afraid to guess.. I think you will need a brad point bit. It is crucial that you drill the depth accurately in the top and bottom of the box. The hinge must be seated properly and a little allowance for glue must be made. Not much glue just a toothpick tiny drop...

[Dennis Peacock]

You can get "reall-l-l-ly" close to metric size with "letter sized" drill bits. Metric bits in my shop are extremely rare...I just use letter size bits and a digital caliper to get really close and it all works fine. You can get within a few thousandths of being exact....just leaves room for the glue!! :p :D

[Betsy Yocum]

You can get "reall-l-l-ly" close to metric size with "letter sized" drill bits. Metric bits in my shop are extremely rare...I just use letter size bits and a digital caliper to get really close and it all works fine. You can get within a few thousandths of being exact....just leaves room for the glue!! :p :D
So far I've been lucky - I've found a bit that matches almost perfectly. But I'm still having trouble with the offset. Will keep experimenting.

Thanks fellas!

[Gary Max]

Besty you need to find out alot more about this subject. LOML just bought two bags of them last week when we where in the big city. Need some ideal of how big of a lid they will hold. If you make most of the mistakes first and remember to share I would be greatfull. Oh we already spent the $3.95 for the 5 mm bit. Pics would be very helpfull.

[Perry Holbrook]

I buy these hinges by the dozens and use them on 2 of my box designs. I usually get mine from Woodcraft. They have the 5mm bit also. As someone else said the 7.5 mm depth is critical. It is VERY easy to use too much epoxy. Be sure to exercise the hinges before the expoxy sets completely or you may never open it.

As far as the set back is concerned, it's really a function of deep you want the 45 chamfer to be. The chamfer must go back to the center of the 5mm hole on the top and bottom. I've found the easiest way to do this is to drill the holes first and then chamfer back from the edge to the center of the hole. I do the chamfer on my edge sander with a jig to hold it at the correct angle.

Hope this helps. Perry

[Gary Max]

Perry that has a bunch of my wifes questions answered. What do you find to be the best thickness of materail they can be use in. I am guessing 1/2.
Betsy I am so glad you asked this question
thanks

[Betsy Yocum]

Gary - I'm glad I'm not the only one lost with these hinges.

When I get one right - I'll post pictures. No promises when that will be! - But hopefully soon.

Perry - the part I was missing was the chamfer - I think that cleared up a lot of confusion for me.

I'll let you all know how I make out.

Betsy

[Perry Holbrook]

Perry that has a bunch of my wifes questions answered. What do you find to be the best thickness of materail they can be use in. I am guessing 1/2.
Betsy I am so glad you asked this question
thanks
The boxes I use this hinge for have very light tops because the hinges can't handle much weight. The box tapers top to bottom, the point where the hinges are is about 3/8" to 7/16" and I center the hinge.

I use those hinges on this box

Perry

[Bill Grumbine]

Hi Betsy

I made hundreds - nay, thousands of boxes using the 5mm hinges you describe. I am not sure what you mean by an offset. You can put these hinges anywhere you want as long as the hole for the hinge is bisected by the arris of a 45 degree cut. That is, 45 degrees for a lid that will open to 90 degrees. You can vary the angle that the lid opens by varying where the edge (arris) crosses the hole for the hinge. If you have more than half beveled, the lid will open more than 90, and if you have less than half of the hole beveled, it will open less than 90. It is usually a good idea to make it at least 90, as an acute opening is not attractive, nor will the lid stay up. Below is an example.

<img src="http://www.enter.net/~ultradad/penbox1.jpg">

You can also use pretty much any thickness of wood you want, although there is an aesthetic limit to the thickness. Too thick and the hinges will look undersized. Too thin and they poke through the other side. DAMHIKT

Good luck with it, and if you have any questions, I would be glad to try and answer them. BTW, what are you making, pencil boxes? ;)

Bill

[Gary Max]

LOML makes small boxes and other items--when she has the time. Bill that is a outstanding layout for your pencil box. We do a couple of shows a year so we try and carry stuff in a full price range so anyone could buy something.

[Betsy Yocum]

Wow - Bill and Perry - I can only hope to make boxes like those some day. I'll keep working at it. But for now these are the ones I'm working on. I've not done the cut for the hinge yet - that's for tomorrow.

The one I like the most is the one with the "strange lid" - don't know if you can really see the detail or not.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Gary Max]

Betsy The boxes look great. How are you going to cut the chamfer on the lid side of the box and still have any material left???

[Betsy Yocum]

Betsy The boxes look great. How are you going to cut the chamfer on the lid side of the box and still have any material left???
Gary - the one with the funny lid is going to get a block of wood under the lide so it will be hingeless - if I tried to cut the chamfer on it there would be no wood. The rest of the cuts I plan to use a chamfering bit and practice, practice, practice on scrap first.

I plan to take pictures - hopefully better than the ones above - I fine tuned the camera last night so it should be good to go.

[Bill Grumbine]

Thanks Gary and Betsy. Gary, this box sold for $95.00 as you see it with the pen. I sold more than I can count, and I kept all my jigs. I have not made these in about six years, so it may be time for a "revival".

Betsy, I tried all sorts of things for cutting the bevel to accomodate the hinge. Most of them were unsatisfactory for repeatability because of the slight variations in production from run to run. I finally built a router table jig that held the box halves at a 45 degree angle to the surface of the table, and utilized a straight bit with a bearing. The jig indexed off the bearing, and since the box halves always indexed off the side which was drilled, slight variations in width did not affect the cut as they would if I ran it through a fence. I just had to make sure the bit was set at the proper height, and I had a setup block for that. A chamfer bit will probably do okay for you, but you may not be happy with the quality of cut as it approaches the point, since it will be moving very slowly relative to the rest of the bit. I would (and did) use a table saw set with the blade set at 45 degrees to make the cut. For a few boxes in a limited production run, or with boxes and lids of different thicknesses, it may work out better for you.

Bill

[Betsy Yocum]

Bill - thanks for the help - perhaps you can come to Texas for a good steak and a coke and give me a private lesson - sure is not getting done by myself. I've tried the saw blade at 45 and the chamfer bit - which you are right - I had trouble with. I'm not sure I'm understanding your jig system. Don't suppose after all this time you have any pictures?

Since I like my fingers and usually get sloppy when frustrated - I've given up for the day. :(

Better luck tomorrow I guess! - Or perhaps some slab lid boxes to build up my ego a bit!

Thanks again
Betsy

[Gary Max]

Here's what we are going to try. Margie has a 12 inch disk sander in her shop. I am going to cut a 4x4 block at 45 degree's and use it for a base and jig. This will give her the control of how fast material is removed and still be at 45. Since the lids are small this might work.

[Michael Stafford]

Betsy, I've had better success using the chamfer bit by raising it significantly above the table and then using the router table fence to control the amount of chamfer. You somewhat eliminate the tip speed problem that Bill was describing. I would also love to better understand Bill's jig because I believe that it would give a better cut. I hope he will give us all a schematic or picture. I have an idea of what he is talking about but more than likely it is the wrong idea...