Raised vs Flat Panels

["Gary Smith"]

I've built many raised panels for cabinets and etc. now I have a need to put flat panels in my rail and stile door frames. I normally use 4/4 ruff cut milling it down to 3/4 oak and I'm really puzzled on how to do the panels without just planning the panels down from 3/4 stock. I would hate to waste good 3/4 stock making flat panels. I try not to use ply but might consider it if need be. Resawing? maybe but I could see having problems glueing and getting them flat.
How and what do you folks use for your flat panels?

[Doug Carpenter]

I do them with plywood. It is nice and stable for a thiner panel. Although I don't like to go thinner than a half inch because the cabinet will sound like a drum.

I don't have a ton of experience with panel glue ups so I stick to what I can do easily unless a customer wants something special.

That being said I have always loved the flat panel doors that are a raised panel backwards. It really smacks of quality. Its almost borderline excessive; so when I see it it makes me smile. Maybe thats the way you should go since that is what you do alot of. That way the panel is still 3/4" thick.

[johnny means]

veneered MDF is my choice. Perfectly flat, very solid feel and sound, and no telegraphing. Also, MDF core usually has a thicker outer veneer than veneer core.

[Larry Fox]

I use shop-cut veneer pressed onto 1/2" BB ply. I typically put a rabbit around the back so before I veneer I put a hardwood "frame" around the ply using the same species (and preferably from the same board) as the veneer. Takes a bit longer but makes a really nice job. Allows you to get a pretty much full thickness panel without wasting as much stock.

[Brian Penning]

I like the idea of reversing the raised panels so the raised part is on the inside.
There's a router bit for it or simply make the panel edges thinner on the tablesaw.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=45095&cat=1,46168,46178&ap=1

[Matt Meiser]

Unless this is heirloom furniture, go with the ply. The cherry veneered MDF I used on my kitchen project was beautiful, very reasonably priced when you consider how little waste there was, and it was very consistent in thickness (except for 1 thin sheet.)

[Peter Quinn]

We usually use veneer core ply or veneered MDF core for 1/4" thick flat panels in 3/4" thick doors at work. Solid wood below 3/8" can become problematic as it doesn't take much sticking it make it crack and split. I'm sure many will tell you they do this all the time it it has worked out fine, and I say good for them and their good luck, but in general very thin solid wood panels are prone to problems. When the doors are a bit thicker we run solid panels with a cove profile to the back side, flat panel to the front, but that's usually in at least 1" thick doors with a 5/8" thick panel.

I suppose you can run a 3/8" thick solid panel with the flat face forward in a 3/4" doors, but that's tough to resaw out of 4/4 stock, and again not necessarily the most stable thing long term.

[James G. McQueen]

I recently finished my kitchen doors and drawer faces. I did them out of elm. Plywood not easy to get in elm. Using 4/4 I jointed one face and one edge. I then skip dressed the opposite face(just shy of 1" thick) and ripped final edge on my table saw. Then I resawed to approximately 7/16. I skip dressed the bandsawn faces (easier to see if joints fit tight when you dry fit your pieces)and jointed the ripped edge. They make a real nice book match this way.

I then glued the panels up. Then have a tendency to pop out of the clamps even with minimal pressure. What you need to do is to put clamps above as well as below the panel.Force a large enough wedge, with waxpaper on the bottom, under the middle of the top clamp where the joints meet. This will hold the panel flat while it dries. The waxpaper prevents the wedge from sticking to the panel. Then plane or surface sand to your finish thickness.

This worked well on all the 28 drawer fronts and doors.

Gives you 1 more option.

Good Luck

[David DeCristoforo]

There, as you can see, are many advocates for plywood panels. However, if you want a "top quality" door, mill the solid wood panels down to 1/2 or 5/8, rabbet the backs and treat them as you would any other solid wood panel.

[J.R. Rutter]

Depends on the look you want. One advantage to ply is that you can get sequential sheets and cut the panels for a nice consistent pattern. On the other hand, using solid wood gives a more random look that is usually a better color match to the door frames. We do lots of each. I build doors to 13/16" as standard, so a flat reverse raised panel is about 0.6". I'm not so wild about thinner solid wood panels. They react faster to MC changes. But if the joints are sound, they seem to do OK.

[johnny means]

There, as you can see, are many advocates for plywood panels. However, if you want a "top quality" door, mill the solid wood panels down to 1/2 or 5/8, rabbet the backs and treat them as you would any other solid wood panel.

I beg to disagree. "Top quality" doesn't require solid wood, nor does solid wood indicate top quality.

[Chip Lindley]

The one kitchen I did with ply panels, was done by laminating together two sheets of really nice 1/8" RO ply. (beautiful sliced veneer) That way I had an *A* side inside and out.

IMO, it was as much work to cut out for nicest grain pattern and laminate the two ply sheets, as it would have been to glue up 1/2" thick solid panels and rabbet the backs. Unless you can get 1/4" ply with both *A* sides, those *B* or *C* insides will look a bit shoddy.

[David DeCristoforo]

"Top quality" doesn't require solid wood, nor does solid wood indicate top quality."

Oh yeah? Sez who? Them's fightin' words. OK, maybe you have a point. But I would stick with my comment to this extent: A "top quality" door cannot be built with "off the rack" plywood. At least not in my world. In yours, the rules may be different. I only use manufactured plywood panels when I'm trying to cut costs. If I want "the best" laminated panels because I need to do something with veneers that would not be suitable to solid wood construction, I usually lay up my own panels. But again, that's just me...

[Gary Gleave]

Hi guys, I'm new to the forum and thought I would jump in.
For shaker style doors, or the flat panel look, I like to use a 1/4" substrate.
I veneer both sides with either the same species or a contrasting one .

[Chris Friesen]

...I like to use a 1/4" sub straight.

I think the word is "substrate".

[Peter Quinn]

I think the word is "substrate".

Oh, I don't know, he may have had it right the first time. My panel glue ups are often "sub straight".:D Might be why my doors come out bowed?

[Frank Drew]

In order to give myself the most say in the matter, I'd probably go with solid (raised or rabbeted back), or veneer my own panels. Yeah, it is more work, to be sure.

[Neal Clayton]

I beg to disagree. "Top quality" doesn't require solid wood, nor does solid wood indicate top quality.

/shrug

i'm rather proud of the fact that nothing i build has any plywood in it.

[Vince Shriver]

"Top quality" doesn't require solid wood, nor does solid wood indicate top quality."

Oh yeah? Sez who? Them's fightin' words. OK, maybe you have a point. But I would stick with my comment to this extent: A "top quality" door cannot be built with "off the rack" plywood. At least not in my world. In yours, the rules may be different. I only use manufactured plywood panels when I'm trying to cut costs. If I want "the best" laminated panels because I need to do something with veneers that would not be suitable to solid wood construction, I usually lay up my own panels. But again, that's just me...

David, what do you use as the core when laying up your panels?

[David DeCristoforo]

"David, what do you use as the core when laying up your panels?"

I make the core out of layers of 1/8" poplar "veneer".

[Steve Clardy]

veneered MDF is my choice. Perfectly flat, very solid feel and sound, and no telegraphing. Also, MDF core usually has a thicker outer veneer than veneer core.


Ditto. I've been using the MDF core for a couple of years now.

[Chip Lindley]

Flat panels can certainly be specified by a customer. Cheaper or more Expensive is up to them. A custom shop is beholden to build what a customer *wants* and *will pay for*.

That being said, I smile when I see well executed, solid wood, raised panel doors, whether the field is on the front, or on the back to let a thick, stable panel into the rail/stile groove.

I tend to frown at doors which exhibit thin *rotary-cut* ply panels with a *C* or *D* face on the back, with all its open knots, delaminations, and nasty discoloration.

Although the notion of *quality* can include flat panels in cabinet doors, IMO it is the exception rather than the rule. (especially for those of us who actually know the difference)

Umm....Is there any such thing as a *quality* MDF CNC-produced door, with catalized, white finish? They are included in new homes costing over $250,000. Hmm...

[Frank Drew]

Although the notion of *quality* can include flat panels in cabinet doors, IMO it is the exception rather than the rule. (especially for those of us who actually know the difference)


Chip,

If you mean flat, commercially purchased plywood panels, I'd largely agree with you. But a well-chosen solid wood, or shop-veneered, flat panel is as legitimate for high-end work as a raised panel; it's just a different look (not so "colonial"). Particularly when paired with bolection molding, they can look great and every bit as decorative as any other frame and panel scheme. IMO.

[Homer Faucett]

Gorgeous pomelle sapele doors, Gary!


Hi guys, I'm new to the forum and thought I would jump in.
For shaker style doors, or the flat panel look, I like to use a 1/4" substrate.
I veneer both sides with either the same species or a contrasting one .

[Neal Clayton]

Chip,

If you mean flat, commercially purchased plywood panels, I'd largely agree with you. But a well-chosen solid wood, or shop-veneered, flat panel is as legitimate for high-end work as a raised panel; it's just a different look (not so "colonial"). Particularly when paired with bolection molding, they can look great and every bit as decorative as any other frame and panel scheme. IMO.

i agree with that as well, it's a preference, and not necessarily lesser than a raised panel.

either way, yeah, that's why they have motorized gates with drowsy old security guards and homeowner's associations chip. they can't sell architecture and quality when it's all made out of plastic and looks the same, hence they must sell something else ;).