ShopSmith Mark V yes or no?

[JohnMichael Schlim]

Hello all,
I have pretty decent home hobby workshop and I search CL and Ebay pretty regular. I keep seeing these ShopSmith tool and accessories for pretty cheap. I am considering picking up one for our family farm in Kansas. The idea being we would not have to haul so many power tools back and forth. My question is how good is a shop smith mark V if it is in decent shape. Are they accurate? could you use it as your only contractor TS, Jointer, Drill press etc.. I would be comparing the tools to contractor versions of TS a delta bench drill press, hand jig saw, a 6 in bench jointer etc...

Any concerns about safety, fences, power would be appreciated.

JM

[keith ouellette]

I haven't used one myself but My brother in law owns one and has had it for many years. He didn't like it to much but I don't remember why. I know he has made a few things with it but has told me if he was going to do more than just " one little project a year" he would get other tools. If space was a big problem then .....

Aside from that I did have a combination machine which had a boring, sliding table saw, jointer, planer, shaper set up. aside from the fact that it didn't work well ( I think I got a bad one) I couldn't stand changing fences and flipping things over for every different task. Looked smooth as silk on the videos I saw but in reality it was a real pain.

Just my 2 cents until more informed info comes along.

[Ron Jones near Indy]

I have a SS that makes a very good drill press, a fair lathe and a good disk sander. When needed the horizontal boring feature is very good. It can be used as a table saw and some very nice work can be done on it. Plan on spending time switching from setup to setup. It will make you plan your order of operations carefully to save time.

The real weakness of the machine is the table saw. Any time you have a tilting table instead of a tilting arbor it becomes an issue. You may be limited on the projects (size of boards) you can cut comfortably. The saw is the weakness of the machine IMHO. I only use mine for the DP, lathe and sander.

[Dick Heifner]

Hi John
The shopsmith is good for sanding, and those things, but it is not very good saw. I had one for 10 years.
Dick

[Dave Lehnert]

I started on a shopsmith and have built a house full of furniture with it. For what you want one for would be perfect. The one feature that the Shopsmith comes with that is often overlooked is the variable speed. I am doing some intarsia projects right now. I can slow the belt sander speed down enough I can hold the small wood pieces by hand to shape.

If you want some more info Shopsmith has a forum at their home page.

I sent you a private Message so look in your in box.

[Heather Thompson]

John,

My father has had a Shopsmith for years, I learned on it at his side, bought one for myself a number of years ago. The tablesaw is the weakest point but it is very useable, the drill press, sander, horizontal boring feature are all very good, the lathe is ok as long as you add weight via a shopmade shelf between the legs (I store the sandbags that are used for weight in the back of my pickup on the lower shelf). As to the issue of the size of boards that you can handle, there are many resourceful ways to deal with that, see attached link.
http://home.wmis.net/~eastmant/photos/projects/ripping1.html
As to comparing the drill press feature to a bench top version, there is a member here that sold there floor model drill press and now only uses their Shopsmith for that function.

Heather

[Kirk Simmons]

I own a very nice table saw that I am happy with, but I see a lot of Shopsmith V's for sale on CL and have considered buying one as a secondary tool system, setting it up just as a drill press, lathe, sander, band saw, etc. I think it might work very well this way if the price was right.

Owning it as my only tool would drive me crazy though, as the table saw feature, on the older saws without the add-on tables at least, seems pretty marginal. That being said a lot of people really like them, and I don't personally own one, so my opinions might not hold water.

[David DeCristoforo]

You tryin' to start another fight? "Dissing" the SS is a good way to do it. I had a SS once, a long time ago. My father wrote the book that came with them (Power Tool Woodworking for Everyone) You might say I "grew up" with the SS. I used the one I had for a few years and then "graduated" to heavier duty machines. So this is not a completely uninformed opinion.

The SS is a very clever design. It can perform fairly well in a "low output" or "hobbiest" environment. And it can be jigged up to do a surprising number of tasks. But it is what it is and the attempt to be a "do all" machine puts it squarely in the "jack of all trades, master of none" category. As a drill press, it is excellent as long as you factor in the less than rigid structure. As a horizontal boring machine, it's great. As a lathe, it's shaky and underpowered. As a disk sander, it is superb. As a table saw, it scares the bejezus out of me. The table is too small, too high and too rickety for me to be comfortable working on it. The fence is a joke. And while the blade is secured to the arbor with a nut, the arbor is secured to the power shaft with a set screw. That alone is enough to give me bad dreams. And tilting tables have never been worth a hill of beans in my book.

All other functions (jointer, planer, band saw, etc.) require the purchase of "attachments" which are simply small machines with no motors or stands that attach to the SS and use it's motor via a coupling (again secured by set screws). These typically do not cost any less than decent used single purpose tools of equivalent capacity. So it's hard to appreciate any real gain there.

Also, the SS is not cheap (new ones start at three grand) so it is entirely possible that by looking around for good used tools, you could put together a much better basic shop without spending any more and you would be free from the hassle of having to stop work to reconfigure the SS every time you wanted to use a different tool.

[Kirk Simmons]

A nice article I found on buying a used Shopsmith. It talks about what to look for, motor sizes and a bunch of other useful things.

http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/SS_Archives/SS121/SS121_Common_files/Blackboard_images/Buying%20a%20Used%20Shopsmith%20Mark%20V.pdf

[Joe Scharle]

David, I recognized your last name when I first saw it, but had no idea R. J. was your father. His book was part of my 1978 SS and I still have both. I learned so very much from him.

[Bob Aquino]

David, I recognized your last name when I first saw it, but had no idea R. J. was your father. His book was part of my 1978 SS and I still have both. I learned so very much from him.

I also wondered if there was a connection with that name. Now I know...:)

[JohnMichael Schlim]

Thanks for all the input guys and gals!

[Dave Lehnert]

You tryin' to start another fight? "Dissing" the SS is a good way to do it. I had a SS once, a long time ago. My father wrote the book that came with them (Power Tool Woodworking for Everyone) You might say I "grew up" with the SS. I used the one I had for a few years and then "graduated" to heavier duty machines. So this is not a completely uninformed opinion.

The SS is a very clever design. It can perform fairly well in a "low output" or "hobbiest" environment. And it can be jigged up to do a surprising number of tasks. But it is what it is and the attempt to be a "do all" machine puts it squarely in the "jack of all trades, master of none" category. As a drill press, it is excellent as long as you factor in the less than rigid structure. As a horizontal boring machine, it's great. As a lathe, it's shaky and underpowered. As a disk sander, it is superb. As a table saw, it scares the bejezus out of me. The table is too small, too high and too rickety for me to be comfortable working on it. The fence is a joke. And while the blade is secured to the arbor with a nut, the arbor is secured to the power shaft with a set screw. That alone is enough to give me bad dreams. And tilting tables have never been worth a hill of beans in my book.

All other functions (jointer, planer, band saw, etc.) require the purchase of "attachments" which are simply small machines with no motors or stands that attach to the SS and use it's motor via a coupling (again secured by set screws). These typically do not cost any less than decent used single purpose tools of equivalent capacity. So it's hard to appreciate any real gain there.

Also, the SS is not cheap (new ones start at three grand) so it is entirely possible that by looking around for good used tools, you could put together a much better basic shop without spending any more and you would be free from the hassle of having to stop work to reconfigure the SS every time you wanted to use a different tool.

Thanks for sharing the PTWFE info.

For anyone interested. Shopsmith has that book on-line. It is a great read for a non-shopsmith user as well. A lot of great tips and trick.

http://www.shopsmith.com/academy/curriculumlinks.htm

Use the links to the left of the page as the main links do not seem to work.

[Richard Wagner]

Thanks for sharing the PTWFE info.

For anyone interested. Shopsmith has that book on-line. It is a great read for a non-shopsmith user as well. A lot of great tips and trick.

http://www.shopsmith.com/academy/curriculumlinks.htm

Use the links to the left of the page as the main links do not seem to work.

David speaks some truth in his evaluation of the Shopsmith Mark V but only if he is speaking of the older machines. The new Mark V has a much larger table, a larger motor and is much more stable than its earlier predecessor.

Needless to say, I am very pleased with mine. I am truly a hobbiest so I never experience the short comings that might become apparent in a production environment. But then it was never intended to be a production machine.

[Dave Lehnert]

David speaks some truth in his evaluation of the Shopsmith Mark V but only if he is speaking of the older machines. The new Mark V has a much larger table, a larger motor and is much more stable than its earlier predecessor.

Needless to say, I am very pleased with mine. I am truly a hobbiest so I never experience the short comings that might become apparent in a production environment. But then it was never intended to be a production machine.

Also will add that Shopsmith is just on the verge of introducing a new headstock called the Power Pro. It is a electronic variable speed unit just like the Nova wood lathe. Will give a wider speed range.

[Dale Hemm]

I bought my SS about thirty years ago, and although I now have a shop full of stand-alone machines, the SS still has its place, and still gets used. Like others have mentioned, it will do very nearly anything you could want. I does sometimes require a little thought to properly adjust outfeed tables for larger pieces, but then we should always be thinking in the shop anyways! I think you would find it an ideal machine to have available at a secondary location (if I read your post correctly).

[David DeCristoforo]

Most of the jigs and fixtures illustrated in PTWFE were actually designed by a little known engineer named Hans Goldschmidt who was the "actual" inventor of the SS. When my father died, we found among his effects, several of Hans' notebooks, filled with sketches of jigs and fixtures, all of which were intended to be "attachments" for the SS.

But the "powers that be" at Magna, the company that originally manufactured the SS, decided in their wisdom that it would be too costly to tool up to manufacture so many attachments. It was decided instead, to provide instructions that SS owners could refer to if they needed or wanted to make the jigs themselves. My father was hired to work with Hans to create the book (PTWFE) as a "manual" that was included with every SS. My father's real strength was his ability to describe a process in a way that was easily understandable.

My father and Magna parted ways in the mid 50's had he spent the next two years rewriting PTWFE which was then published as "DeCristoforo's Complete book of Power Tools, Both Stationary and Portable" (quite a mouthful!) I always felt it was somewhat questionable that my father essentially took credit for these inventions without acknowledging Hans who was a brilliant engineer and inventor. I hope it doesn't sound like I'm denigrating my father here because that is not my intention. R.J. was as brilliant a technical writer as Hans Goldschmidt was an inventor. I just think credit should be given where it is due and I have always felt that Mr Goldschmidt's relativity obscurity, even among SS aficionados, was unjustified.

[Ryan Baker]

I can echo David's comments, as my experience is with an older model. The table saw feature (at least on the old ones) is terrifying, and I would refuse to use it. The horizontal boring setup is probably it's best trick. If you have little space and can put up with a lot of setup time for hobbiest jobs, it might be a suitable choice if you find a good price. The newer table in that picture does look better, but I would still combine the SS with another table saw -- even one of the portable ones would be preferable.

[Dave Lehnert]

Most of the jigs and fixtures illustrated in PTWFE were actually designed by a little known engineer named Hans Goldschmidt who was the "actual" inventor of the SS. When my father died, we found among his effects, several of Hans' notebooks, filled with sketches of jigs and fixtures, all of which were intended to be "attachments" for the SS.

But the "powers that be" at Magna, the company that originally manufactured the SS, decided in their wisdom that it would be too costly to tool up to manufacture so many attachments. It was decided instead, to provide instructions that SS owners could refer to if they needed or wanted to make the jigs themselves. My father was hired to work with Hans to create the book (PTWFE) as a "manual" that was included with every SS. My father's real strength was his ability to describe a process in a way that was easily understandable.

My father and Magna parted ways in the mid 50's had he spent the next two years rewriting PTWFE which was then published as "DeCristoforo's Complete book of Power Tools, Both Stationary and Portable" (quite a mouthful!) I always felt it was somewhat questionable that my father essentially took credit for these inventions without acknowledging Hans who was a brilliant engineer and inventor. I hope it doesn't sound like I'm denigrating my father here because that is not my intention. R.J. was as brilliant a technical writer as Hans Goldschmidt was an inventor. I just think credit should be given where it is due and I have always felt that Mr Goldschmidt's relativity obscurity, even among SS aficionados, was unjustified.

Again David thanks for sharing the info.

[Gene Howe]

Dave, David and Richard are all correct.
I've owned one for over 30 years. Well engineered and built.
I have learned many tricks to overcome some of it's limitations....all except for mitering long stock. For that I use the miter saw.
I'm very happy with mine.

[JohnMichael Schlim]

Well I really appreciate all the information However I had never seen a SS when I went to buy a Belsaw Planer/moulder from CL and he had a SS sitting there and an air compressor So for $400.00 my suburban was packed with all three and I headed home. After I got home and unloaded the SS I started reviewing the links that were sent in this string. I found that I bought a ShopSmith 10ER its not even a Mark V. :mad: So I started going through it all and everything works well it has the table-saw, drill press, disk sander and Jig saw attachments. Now this is the oldest model of SS apparently and as was stated in the string the TS seems a little shaky (I have yet to try it.. I wont try it) However the Drill press has a 4.5"+ throw (Same as my floor model Ridgid) and the table with fence and miter gage added to the table raising capabilities really impressed me as a DP it almost gives a mill-like movement. Then I laid it down an the horizontal DP brew my socks off. That thing is great I doweled some old lumber just to try it (worked like a charm). The 12" disk sander (its the aluminum version) was not very impressive and I have no blades for the jig saw so Monday I head out to find some so I can try that part of it. The Lathe capabilites were also impressive. The tool rest is perfect and the seating of the head and tail stock was very solid... but I wonder does anyone make Pens on this? the headstock is not tapered so how to install a pen mandrel? I can see where the Mark V with the adjustable speed control (the 10ER has 2 three row pulleys and you have to move the belt manually) would really make this machine an asset. It is an amazing machine. The problem is my Dad is visiting me and now we need 2 Mark V's (One for each of us) and this 10ER can go to Kansas farm or maybe we just find 3 Mark V's they are so cheap on CL. I cant believe I have not looked at these before as a fill in until I could get more stand alone machines. It will also work well as a second lathe cause every time I start to spin a pen LOML has to come and help :rolleyes: this way we can spin 2 at once :) Ditto for the jig saw bandsaw boxes. For a horizontal & vertical drill press, sander, lathe, jig-saw it seems like deal to good to be true. Now for the Belsaw... well thats another story for another day!

[Mitchell Andrus]

I keep seeing these ShopSmith tool and accessories for pretty cheap.

Pain in the butt. I used one at a theater for set construction for years because the shop space was small and we didn't have a decent budget. we didn't use half the setups so it was mostly just a TS, but a lousy one at that. Once in a while someone would sneak in and use it as a lathe. Took a while to turn it back into a saw again.

Imagine in your kitchen... a can opener, dishwasher, toaster, cutting board all built into one unit.
.

[Rick Alexander]

which is their top of the line and mine is one of the anniversary edition. Back when my shop was in the carport it filled the need just fine - even the table saw. I was down right happy with it for what I was able to do back then. When I got my new shop and was able to use dedicated and more production oriented tools it sits idle almost all the time. Still does edge sanding well and is a heck of a machine to sharpen planer blades using the angled sanding disk. Like everyone else said, edge boring is it's strongest suit - probably one of the best out there for that but I don't find myself doing that much. Pretty shaky lathe and hard to find chucks and lathe accessories to fit it unless you buy the overpriced ones from Shopsmith. I mostly use the belt sander as it stay's hooked up to it all the time now. It is a very well made machine but it is what it is - not for production stuff.

Overall - a very good tool if you're hurting for space but definitely I wouldn't pay new price for one. I see the latest of the latest for sale on CL for at least half what a new one costs and usually much cheaper than that.

[Dave Lehnert]

10er's are common on the left coast. Montgomery Ward sold them 1947 to 1953.

Penn state sells Pen mounts for the shopsmith. You can also get one to put in a drill chuck.

Here is a link to a manual and other things 10er
http://www.songofthegreatlakes.com/ss10er.htm

In the pic of a 10er below you will see a speed changer between the bench tubes. It was sold as an accessory. They tend to bring good money on e-bay.

Photo from http://mkctools.com/10ermatthews.htm
http://mkctools.com/mvc-005s.jpg

[Brian Loucks]

JohnMichael,
I have a very old ShopSmith that I play around with occasionally. You can order from PennState a pen mandrel and most other lathe parts. The pen mandrel worked fine for the few pens that I have turned. I cut out discs from plywood for several different self stick sandpaper grits. You can sand a 2 x 4 down to a toothpick really quick so be careful!
David,
I have wondered as others have also about your father's possible connection to ShopSmith. Your post has given credit to Mr. Goldschmidt.
I'm sure that it will be appreciated.
Brian

[Matt Ranum]

I have 2 10er's as well as 2 of the first edition of the PTWFE wrote around the 10er. A shop full of stand alone machines but I like them and they have a place here. My biggest complaint is the lack of speed control with just the 3 speed pulleys, but I think I'll be trying a dc motor conversion at some point to remedy that.

[Mr. Jeff Smith]

Thanks for the info David, very cool to hear some of the history behind this machine.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I have one, and I have to mention that it a very good band saw, for an 11 incher. If you can get a lot of attachments, it may be worth it. I also have almost a full shop now, so the SS is just used as a band saw for bowl blanks, and it's my "big" lathe. Everything else is no longer with me. It does a lot, and I know people who made some really incredible stuff. (a small boat) If you need lots of tools and have no space, it may be your only resolution. As everyone else already mentioned, it's not a good table saw. BUT you can get a bench top model that works pretty good for cheap.

For a machine that is 30 years old, it runs very smoothly, and it has decently enough power to turn small bowls.

[Erik Christensen]

Others have gone into detail so I won't repeat their comments, but for me the tool is totally lame. I know that there are some who do great things with it; but there are talented people who could make fine furniture with a bent screwdriver & dull butter knife - just not easily, quickly or safely - which is my issue with SS. I look back on some of the things I have done with this tool and I am amazed I can still count to 10 with my shoes on ;) .

Bottom line for me was the low quality of things I made with it, the difficulty in doing anything correctly and the hassle of setup made me leave the hobby for years. It was not until I got decent tools that I started enjoying wood-working again. If you are the type of person who likes spending hours doing something that could be done in minutes with a better tool then you will LOVE your SS.

That said - I still have mine but it is relegated to just minor lathe projects, drill press & disc/belt sander; anything else it is either useless, dangerous or both IMHO.

[Jerome Hanby]

I think that there is a world of difference in the "usefulness" of Mk V based on how much you pay. If you are buying a new one, spend the same money on standalone tools. If you are shopping for a used one, then you can spend $600 and fill in several thousand dollars worth of holes in your shop equipment. When you can eventually afford to replace all the MK V's functions with standalone tools, then turn it into the best sanding station that money can buy.

I love mine and it's a great platform to support and power shop made gizmos.

[RON F. ANDERSON]

Well a late post for sure...

I bought a used Shopsmith about 3-4 yrs ago now very cheap...like 250 bucks... and I agree the table saw is the weakest part in the machine, not so much for power but safety issues with such a small table to work on. Newer models such as the 510 and newer yet made their tables much, much larger and thus safer to use. These machines with cost you more used. I have set my SS with a belt sander on one side and dado table saw. The machine works well for me. Considering its over 25 years old now. But, I have recently heard the company has filed chap 13. Have only a handful of employees left and are looking to reorganize. If true this could leave parts and accessories, harder to locate ect.

[Pat Germain]

I don't see how the manufacturer of the ShopSmith can stay in business. I can't search for used tools on Craigslist without seeing a dozen "SHOPSMITH!" postings. And they're not the same ad/machine.

I personally wouldn't opt for a ShopSmith. But I can see why others would like this machine. So, the bottom line is, if you want one, you might as well buy used since there sure are a lot of people trying to get rid of them.

EDIT: For giggles, I just searched for "Shopsmith" on Craigslist and found ten of them currently for sale in the Denver area alone. One says, "Price lowered!" and it appears to be a new model with the bandsaw attachment.

[Dave Lehnert]

I don't see how the manufacturer of the ShopSmith can stay in business. I can't search for used tools on Craigslist without seeing a dozen "SHOPSMITH!" postings. And they're not the same ad/machine.

I personally wouldn't opt for a ShopSmith. But I can see why others would like this machine. So, the bottom line is, if you want one, you might as well buy used since there sure are a lot of people trying to get rid of them.

Shopsmith is a live and well. They are ready to introduce a new model that has electronic speed control.

Yes you do see a lot for sale on CL but have to understand that they are built like a tank and never wear out. To the untrained eye they all look the same. They have not changed much over the years. But a lot I see for sale is from the 1950's or 60's. My Shopsmith looks brand new but it is 20 years old. One thing that shopsmith does that no other tool manufacture does. They go out of their way to make sure most all upgrades to the new models can also be done by owners of older models. For example the new Headstock that will be out soon. They could just make you buy a new headstock or even a whole new Shopsmith. But they will just sell you the parts needed for the upgrade to do at home or can send it to Shopsmith and have them upgrade your old unit.

All the big tool names like JET or Grizzly are introducing new table saws witha riving knife. If you want one, You have to buy a whole new saw. If that were shopsmith (they have always had a riving knife.) they would sell you an upgrade kit.

EDIT: The one in Denver with PRICE REDUCED is most likley just below what he paid for that new. They once gave the Bandsaw and Dust collector away with purchase. If he gets that price he would be doing good. My 20 year old model 510 Shopsmith cost $1,200 new. The new model (that has been out for a few years) Is the model 520 that I think is around $3,500.

[Richard Wagner]

I think that there is a world of difference in the "usefulness" of Mk V based on how much you pay. If you are buying a new one, spend the same money on standalone tools. If you are shopping for a used one, then you can spend $600 and fill in several thousand dollars worth of holes in your shop equipment. When you can eventually afford to replace all the MK V's functions with standalone tools, then turn it into the best sanding station that money can buy.

I love mine and it's a great platform to support and power shop made gizmos.

I could agree with you (or at least not disagree) if space is available for all of those stand alones. I believe that the Shopsmith's strong selling point is that one can have so many of the stand alone functions even if working in a limited space.

If you attempt to locate a good sized table saw, jointer, sanding station, router station, drill press, work bench, lathe, and storage in a 400 square foot shop, you run out of space to work in. I would love to add a Unisaw with a huge wing and out feed table to my equipment list but it can not happen due to space.

NOTE: I would not move out the Shopsmith even if I had that TS. It is just too versatile to be replaced.

[Alan Schaffter]

David- I always wondered! Thanks.

I owned Mk-V for about 20 years and about the time a new one was selling for $3000, sold it for twice what I paid! David pretty much nailed it. A shopsmith is all things to some and nothing to others. Many owners are devoted and will argue its virtues all day long. It was good for me when I was in the Navy moving from assignment to assignment and had little space in base housing. Once I had the space it was standalone single purpose machines.

The scariest thing I ever did was to cut rails and stiles for all my kitchen cabinets on the SS using a 6" Craftsman molder. Now that was scary- I had a couple of grabs and kickbacks that almost ended the project.

On the reported new electronic headstock- just like most electronic variable speed machines (mostly lathes) they will still likely keep the mechanical Reeves drive because you can't get decent hp at low RPM with electronic speed control. If they don't, fuhgetaboutit! Buy a used one, keep it for 5 years, then sell it for what you paid.

One thing is telling about the SS - take a look at how many special accessories, mods, etc. they came up with over the years to make the SS "work like other woodworking machines"! Like the car (Toyota?) commercial says, why not buy the real thing?

[John Harden]

You tryin' to start another fight? "Dissing" the SS is a good way to do it. I had a SS once, a long time ago. My father wrote the book that came with them (Power Tool Woodworking for Everyone) You might say I "grew up" with the SS. I used the one I had for a few years and then "graduated" to heavier duty machines. So this is not a completely uninformed opinion.

The SS is a very clever design. It can perform fairly well in a "low output" or "hobbiest" environment. And it can be jigged up to do a surprising number of tasks. But it is what it is and the attempt to be a "do all" machine puts it squarely in the "jack of all trades, master of none" category. As a drill press, it is excellent as long as you factor in the less than rigid structure. As a horizontal boring machine, it's great. As a lathe, it's shaky and underpowered. As a disk sander, it is superb. As a table saw, it scares the bejezus out of me. The table is too small, too high and too rickety for me to be comfortable working on it. The fence is a joke. And while the blade is secured to the arbor with a nut, the arbor is secured to the power shaft with a set screw. That alone is enough to give me bad dreams. And tilting tables have never been worth a hill of beans in my book.

All other functions (jointer, planer, band saw, etc.) require the purchase of "attachments" which are simply small machines with no motors or stands that attach to the SS and use it's motor via a coupling (again secured by set screws). These typically do not cost any less than decent used single purpose tools of equivalent capacity. So it's hard to appreciate any real gain there.

Also, the SS is not cheap (new ones start at three grand) so it is entirely possible that by looking around for good used tools, you could put together a much better basic shop without spending any more and you would be free from the hassle of having to stop work to reconfigure the SS every time you wanted to use a different tool.

David, very fair evaluation in my opinion.

IMHO, the SS tries to be a combo machine using a very unconventional and lightweight design. My brother bought one over 20 years ago and still uses it. I've used it and it has the shortcomings and strengths others have mentioned.

One thing I've not seen mentioned is how much more machine you can get for your money by looking at a European combo machine. A Hammer, 500 Series Felder, or lower end MiniMax is far superior in design, and costs about the same as a SS once you add in SS's crazy expensive add-ons. They too can be had used, particularly in this economy. Felder and MM/SCMI have been making combos FAR longer than SS and have it down pretty well.

Sure, you give up the lathe and drill press, but SS is marginal in both of these configurations. In return, you get a sliding table saw, 10-16 inch jointer/planer, shaper, and a real horizontal mortiser.

I have one (actually two) and they are just plain sweet!!!!

Just my .02

Regards,

John

[Dave Lehnert]

David, very fair evaluation in my opinion.

IMHO, the SS tries to be a combo machine using a very unconventional and lightweight design. My brother bought one over 20 years ago and still uses it. I've used it and it has the shortcomings and strengths others have mentioned.

One thing I've not seen mentioned is how much more machine you can get for your money by looking at a European combo machine. A Hammer, 500 Series Felder, or lower end MiniMax is far superior in design, and costs about the same as a SS once you add in SS's crazy expensive add-ons. They too can be had used, particularly in this economy. Felder and MM/SCMI have been making combos FAR longer than SS and have it down pretty well.

Sure, you give up the lathe and drill press, but SS is marginal in both of these configurations. In return, you get a sliding table saw, 10-16 inch jointer/planer, shaper, and a real horizontal mortiser.

I have one (actually two) and they are just plain sweet!!!!

Just my .02

Regards,

John


lathe and drill press, but SS is marginal in both of these configurations.

First time I ever heard that the drill press is marginal. That is often given as it's strong point.

I would love to have the opportunity to try out a Uro combo just to see what they are like. But did not realize one could be had for the price of a Shopsmith. I thought they were much more expensive.

[John Harden]

lathe and drill press, but SS is marginal in both of these configurations.

First time I ever heard that the drill press is marginal. That is often given as it's strong point.

I would love to have the opportunity to try out a Uro combo just to see what they are like. But did not realize one could be had for the price of a Shopsmith. I thought they were much more expensive.

List price on a new MiniMax C26 is barely $6K and includes a sliding table saw with outrigger, 10" jointer and planer, two speed shaper with 1 1/4" spindle and you can get a mortising attachment for the J/P if you want. Unit has three, 2.5 hp, 220V motors. That's list price. Sale price would be less than that.

Shopsmith's website shows that their MarkV with "Pro" table and 1 1/8 hp motor would run you $3500. I tried to find the price of their jointer attachment and other things, but can't seem to find it on their website. Do they not sell them any more, or is there perhaps another website?

You can pick up used Euro combo's for about 1/2 to 2/3 the cost of new all the time. Sure, many of these are of the higher priced, larger versions, but many of them are similiar to the C26, Smart, the Hammer line from Felder or the Platinum series from Laguna.

Heck, Laguna has a Platinum, 5 function combo for barely $5k!!

Regards,

John

[Dave Loebach]

I used to own one and used it mainly for the drill press. But it can do many things no other tool can do easily (horizontal boring, sanding a piece to a perfect circle, overhead routing and shaping...). I loved it. It is accurate, but a pita to use. I loved it and hated to get rid of it. Why did I get rid of it? The damn thing was just too big. Unless it is your primary shop tool, it just takes up a ton of space. I have many regrets about getting rid of mine.

Dave Loebach

[Richard Wagner]

I don't see how the manufacturer of the ShopSmith can stay in business. I can't search for used tools on Craigslist without seeing a dozen "SHOPSMITH!" postings. And they're not the same ad/machine.

I personally wouldn't opt for a ShopSmith. But I can see why others would like this machine. So, the bottom line is, if you want one, you might as well buy used since there sure are a lot of people trying to get rid of them.

EDIT: For giggles, I just searched for "Shopsmith" on Craigslist and found ten of them currently for sale in the Denver area alone. One says, "Price lowered!" and it appears to be a new model with the bandsaw attachment.

Shopsmith is definitely alive and well and weathering this financial crisis quite well.

The fact that you see so many machines being offered for sale is NOT a sign of trouble but rather evidence of the machines sustainability. Many odf these are thirty and forty year old machines that will be put back in service by their new owners.

The sustainability factor is that one can still buy parts for these old machines. Not true of many others.

[Ed Sallee]

My Shopsmith, serial number 309472, which makes it a 1955 model is still running strong. Those of you that have a SS can see what year yours was manufactured at this link. (http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/serialnumber.htm)

My Dad gave me this SS back in '92 and I worked with it exclusively for nearly 10 years. Totally satisfied with the results. Yes, it took a lot of tinkering for the various setups, but for me, that was all part of it.

My SS also came with a Magna Bandsaw & a Jointer. Back then, they were manufactured by the Magna corporation for SS, as was the SS itself. The Bandsaw & Jointer have Magna name & data plates. No mention of SS.

I have built many a project with my Dad's SS and I wouldn't be without it. Although I use it mainly for the Drill Press, Disc Sander, Bandsaw & Horizontal Boring functions now.... it is still a joy to pull it out and give it a spin.

I did, however, change over some of the innards so I could use the Poly-V belt, versus the old style gilmer belt and I also installed a double bearing quill. Other than that, everything is original - with the exception of a new speed control handle which needs replacing every now and again because the gear teeth are aluminum and do strip out from time to time.

Not bad for a machine that's 54 years old....and counting.

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn88/evsallee/DSC06525-1.jpg

[Pat Germain]

Shopsmith is definitely alive and well and weathering this financial crisis quite well.

The fact that you see so many machines being offered for sale is NOT a sign of trouble but rather evidence of the machines sustainability. Many odf these are thirty and forty year old machines that will be put back in service by their new owners.

The sustainability factor is that one can still buy parts for these old machines. Not true of many others.

I wasn't suggesting the company is any trouble. Rather, I'm saying since the Shopsmiths are very durable, and there are always lots of used examples for sale at very reasonable prices, why would I buy a new machine? If most people simply opt to select one of the many used machines, I'm wondering how the company sells enough new machines to stay in business. But I'm glad to hear they are doing well.

[Dave Lehnert]

I wasn't suggesting the company is any trouble. Rather, I'm saying since the Shopsmiths are very durable, and there are always lots of used examples for sale at very reasonable prices, why would I buy a new machine? If most people simply opt to select one of the many used machines, I'm wondering how the company sells enough new machines to stay in business. But I'm glad to hear they are doing well.


Shopsmith is down to something like 11 employees. It seems that their business today is more a parts business and they will build you a new tool if you need one. They are most often not in stock.

[Gary Chester]

[QUOTE=Dave Lehnert;1270529]All the big tool names like JET or Grizzly are introducing new table saws witha riving knife. If you want one, You have to buy a whole new saw. If that were shopsmith (they have always had a riving knife.) they would sell you an upgrade kit.

I don't think Shopspsmith ever had a riving knife... pretty sure... no, very sure.

That said... My Dad had a Shopsmith and he bought me one. It's a good tool for the space challanged. I have more room now so it's gone.

[Alan Schaffter]

I looked and couldn't find anything current, but according to this March '07 article in the Dayton Daily News (http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/business/2007/03/07/ddn030707shopsmithweb.html), ShopSmith was in a "precarious financial condition" and just about went under then. It said they hadn't turned a profit since '04!

I saw this on the site of a guy who repairs SS:

July 10, 2009 - Insiders report that Shopsmith Inc has folded, laying off all remaining staff, and is reorganizing under a new name (RLF Shop) and business structure to get out from under a huge amount of debt. More and more parts have been on backorder and backordered parts are taking longer to receive.

There were no links to verify that.

Here is a link to a Sheriff's bankruptcy sale (http://www.dailycourt.com/sheriffsale.php/154382/#detail) it appears to list some (or all?) of Shopsmith property for about 2.5M? In any case they are in trouble.

It should be interesting to see if RLF (Robert L. Folkerth son of the founder John Folkerth?) Shop that was reported on some forums to be taking over is able to rise from the SS ashes. There appears to be a lot of debt involved.

[Richard Wagner]

List price on a new MiniMax C26 is barely $6K and includes a sliding table saw with outrigger, 10" jointer and planer, two speed shaper with 1 1/4" spindle and you can get a mortising attachment for the J/P if you want. Unit has three, 2.5 hp, 220V motors. That's list price. Sale price would be less than that.

Shopsmith's website shows that their MarkV with "Pro" table and 1 1/8 hp motor would run you $3500. I tried to find the price of their jointer attachment and other things, but can't seem to find it on their website. Do they not sell them any more, or is there perhaps another website?

You can pick up used Euro combo's for about 1/2 to 2/3 the cost of new all the time. Sure, many of these are of the higher priced, larger versions, but many of them are similiar to the C26, Smart, the Hammer line from Felder or the Platinum series from Laguna.

Heck, Laguna has a Platinum, 5 function combo for barely $5k!!

Regards,

John

They still sell the entire product line. Here's a link to the online catalog.

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/MasterInside_4-28-08r2.pdf

[Dave Lehnert]

[QUOTE=Dave Lehnert;1270529]All the big tool names like JET or Grizzly are introducing new table saws witha riving knife. If you want one, You have to buy a whole new saw. If that were shopsmith (they have always had a riving knife.) they would sell you an upgrade kit.

I don't think Shopspsmith ever had a riving knife... pretty sure... no, very sure.

That said... My Dad had a Shopsmith and he bought me one. It's a good tool for the space challanged. I have more room now so it's gone.


The splitter on the Shopsmith always stays close to the blade. It just works different than other saws because the table moves to adjust the hight of the blade. So it is very much a Riving Knife.

[Richard Wagner]

David- I always wondered! Thanks.

I owned Mk-V for about 20 years and about the time a new one was selling for $3000, sold it for twice what I paid! David pretty much nailed it. A shopsmith is all things to some and nothing to others. Many owners are devoted and will argue its virtues all day long. It was good for me when I was in the Navy moving from assignment to assignment and had little space in base housing. Once I had the space it was standalone single purpose machines.

The scariest thing I ever did was to cut rails and stiles for all my kitchen cabinets on the SS using a 6" Craftsman molder. Now that was scary- I had a couple of grabs and kickbacks that almost ended the project.

On the reported new electronic headstock- just like most electronic variable speed machines (mostly lathes) they will still likely keep the mechanical Reeves drive because you can't get decent hp at low RPM with electronic speed control. If they don't, fuhgetaboutit! Buy a used one, keep it for 5 years, then sell it for what you paid.

One thing is telling about the SS - take a look at how many special accessories, mods, etc. they came up with over the years to make the SS "work like other woodworking machines"! Like the car (Toyota?) commercial says, why not buy the real thing?


Would you consider expanding on this comment. I am curious about which "mods" you are referring to.

[Richard Wagner]

If I was in the market for new equipment, I'd certainly be waiting for this to hit the stores.

Exciting News From Your Friends At Shopsmith
EXCITING NEWS FROM YOUR FRIENDS AT SHOPSMITH

I have an update regarding some FANTASTIC news for all current Shopsmith MARK V Owners, as well as those of you who may have considered adding a MARK V to your home workshops.

A new, updated MARK V Headstock is coming soon!
As I announced several months ago, Shopsmith will soon be introducing an all-new, upgraded, computer-driven Headstock for the Shopsmith MARK V. Called the Shopsmith PowerPro, this Headstock will feature a number of new capabilities that Shopsmith MARK V Owners have been asking for. These include (but are not limited to) the following: More power, Broader speed range, Run in forward or reverse direction, Lowered electrical power requirements, Shopsmith product quality and warranty support, PLUS lots more (additional info to follow soon)

As always, this new Shopsmith product will be Spectacular
There have been some Forum comments regarding the delay of this introduction... and that's why I feel that I need to explain.

First and foremost, Shopsmith's policy has always been to deliver ONLY top-quality products. Shopsmith Tool owners already know this. Many of you own 30, 40 or even 50+ year-old machines that are still delivering great woodworking results, often with ZERO parts failures.

With Quality as our watchword, we've tested and re-tested the PowerPro under stringent standards that even the highest-end competitive machines would have trouble passing... and put it through multiple rounds of revisions and upgrades over the past year or so to ensure that it's the absolute best product we can produce!

During this developmental phase, some new technologies have been introduced that we've been able to incorporate into the PowerPro. Their discovery and eventual incorporation into this new product have also caused some added delays along the way... but you can take my word that although the delays have been longer than we would have liked, the results will be well worth your wait.

You will be able to upgrade your current MARK V to this new technology
The PowerPro is truly a quantum-leap into the 21st century Shopsmith MARK V that you've been waiting for... and, of course, as always, you'll be able to upgrade your current Model MARK V with this new technology at a fraction of the cost of a complete new machine. Our initial offering will be for these Headstock Upgrades, followed by complete, new Shopsmith PowerPro Machines, 30 to 90 days later. PLUS... as always, all of your current accessories will work with the PowerPro Headstock, without having to make any additional adjustments or changes.

Here's what our MARK V Owners have been asking for
So, watch for our announcement and get ready to step up to the 21st Century Woodworking Wonder... the all-new, Shopsmith PowerPro Headstock. It's been a long time coming... but you won't have much longer to wait. I assure you, it will be well worth it!

[Alan Schaffter]

Would you consider expanding on this comment. I am curious about which "mods" you are referring to.

They are endless. For example- larger tables, table extension rails, table height wheel, Rube Goldberg gizmo linkage to make the spindle oscillate, etc., etc. Most telling, however, are the expensive power stands and expensive add-on speed increaser and add-on speed decreaser.

[Izzy Smith]

I have had a Shopsmith for 30 years and recommend it if you can get one for less than $600.

It is a very versatile tool. I built a wooden airplane with it along with several office buildings.

[Paul Cohen]

[QUOTE=Dave Lehnert;1270529]All the big tool names like JET or Grizzly are introducing new table saws witha riving knife. If you want one, You have to buy a whole new saw. If that were shopsmith (they have always had a riving knife.) they would sell you an upgrade kit.

I don't think Shopspsmith ever had a riving knife... pretty sure... no, very sure.

That said... My Dad had a Shopsmith and he bought me one. It's a good tool for the space challanged. I have more room now so it's gone.

Shopsmith has a true riving knife, it is a $29 upgrade for any machine. New machines come with it.

[Richard Wagner]

My Mark V, purchased over twenty years ago, came with a riving knife. It is part of the upper saw guard.

This, like many other negative opinions of the Shopsmith, is most likely based on exposure to an older Mark V built prior to the company being purchased by Shopsmith, Inc.

[Jerome Hanby]

The sustainability factor is that one can still buy parts for these old machines. Not true of many others.

True for the most part, just don't try to buy Shopsmith Jig Saw parts!