Computer questions

[David Freed]

I have been using computers for several years. I know how to run my programs but not much more than that. I am getting ready to buy a new laptop without spending a lot. I was looking to just buy something really cheap, but after looking around, an extra $100-$150 will get a lot better system. The most taxing program I run is my gps program which is running fine on a 1.4 Ghz w/1GB of ram. There are occasions when I can tell that my computer is taking an extra 2 or 3 seconds to do something and I am guessing it is because of the slow speed and ram. I may wait until next Friday to see what is on sale, but probably not. The last time I went to a Best Buy after Thanksgiving (3 years ago), I got there at 1 am and was 20th in line. If I was going to try that again I should probably just go at 9 or 10 pm and stay all night to be sure I would get what I was after. For some reason I don't really feel like doing that just to save a hundred bucks or so. :rolleyes:

Here are my questions. More may follow.

1 - Dual core is better than single core (I think), but why?
2 - What is the difference between Celeron and Pentium?
3 - I know a faster processor is better and I know more ram is better. Is a slower processor with lots of ram better or worse than a fast processor with a small amount of ram?
4 - Would I be able to tell much or any difference between A and B below using my small programs?

5 - I will listen to any other info on the subject.

Here are some on my short list. I am leaning towards C for the price, and D for the extra features. Any comments about or actual experience on any of them?

A - http://www.circuitcity.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=5394515&sku=A180-15400&cm_re=Homepage-_-Spot%2001b-_-CatID_17_A180-15400 (http://www.circuitcity.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=5394515&sku=A180-15400&cm_re=Homepage-_-Spot%2001b-_-CatID_17_A180-15400)


B - http://www.circuitcity.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5311061&CatId=4938 (http://www.circuitcity.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5311061&CatId=4938)

C - http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Gateway+-+Laptop+with+Intel%26%23174%3B+Pentium%26%23174%3B +Processor+-+Burgundy/9614836.p?id=1218131338798&skuId=9614836 (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Gateway+-+Laptop+with+Intel%26%23174%3B+Pentium%26%23174%3B +Processor+-+Burgundy/9614836.p?id=1218131338798&skuId=9614836)

D - http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Asus+-+Laptop+with+Intel%26%23174%3B+Pentium%26%23174%3B +Processor+-+Midnight+Blue/9555992.p?id=1218124206463&skuId=9555992#tabbed-customerreviews (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Asus+-+Laptop+with+Intel%26%23174%3B+Pentium%26%23174%3B +Processor+-+Midnight+Blue/9555992.p?id=1218124206463&skuId=9555992#tabbed-customerreviews)

[Tom Godley]

1 Duel core is two processors - to make it very simple

2. The Pentium is the premium processor line vs Celeron for Intel -- it is like a Chevy and a Buick. Celeron is the value line -- they are fine.

3. You can always buy more ram -- although this sometimes can be $$. The processors are always $$ and most times not viable to replace especially at the price level you are looking. Get the processor.

4. Very difficult to tell without trying them. They are integrated systems at this price point and weakness in any part can affect the whole unit. The actual recommendation from owners is important


It is important to buy what you need. A slow video card can do just as much harm as the processor or the ram - 1g of ram is not enough IMO. The problem with most of these value units is they become outdated too quickly because they are just enough for the products (software) available today.


I moved to Mac's in 2000 when all the Y2K stuff was around (remember that) because I had to replace my old stuff anyway. I have found them to be superior to others as to actual construction and technology.

I just had to replace my laptop from 2001 -- the video card went and it was not worth fixing it -- but it was still a great laptop. I still use my first imac test unit from 2000 out in my shop.

I understand that the cheapest Mac laptop is 1k -- but it is an amazing 13" unit that will give you many more years of service than a cheaper $499 unit - and you will have a faster unit and better display all along.

Spending a little more on a windows unit will also bump you up to a unit that will not be eclipsed by technology in a year or two.

[Anthony Scira]

Check this one out. 8 hours of battery life !

My brother got it and he is getting a little over 7 hours or real time battery life. Which is pretty amazing.

http://www.amazon.com/Acer-Timeline-AS3810TZ-4925-13-3-Inch-Aluminum/dp/B002P8M6EI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1258817886&sr=8-1

[Dave Johnson29]

There are occasions when I can tell that my computer is taking an extra 2 or 3 seconds to do something

You need to identify why it is taking longer. Windows pages "memory" out to the hard drive into a Swap File when it fills the internal memory. It then clears a bunch of internal memory to make way for what you want to do then pages that stuff back in from the Swap File. A slow hard drive would be my first guess at that issue.

When you are using the computer, watch the HDD LED and see how much it is flashing or hard on. If it is the hard drive and it is an IDE type then you can try adding the max amount of internal memory so the Swap File is used less often. Also you can change the size of the Swap File that may help.

Celleron and Pentium. The CPUs are all made the same at the start but because of manufacturing defects, when they test them some fail at certain tasks or speeds so that task is locked out or the speed is limited. The Celleron is the dumbed-down version. The Pentium passed all the tests.

I'd be surprised if you would actually use the extra goodies for that $150/$200 if the hard drives speeds were similar. Look for SATA-3 hard drives as opposed to IDE types. Some Netbooks do not have hard drives but instead have solid state drives SSD. They will be fast but limited in max size and expensive but getting cheaper every day. :)

[Tim Morton]

Is it too early to suggest buying a macbook yet?;)

edit:sorry, i see it was already suggested in the first post :-)

[Greg Peterson]

One factor that is often times not considered is the L2 cache. If you are going to be running apps that are processor intensive, a larger L2 cache will be more beneficial than more RAM. L2 cache is memory stored on the processor die and accessing it is extremely quick. As a general idea L2 cache is to the process as RAM is to a swap file on the hard drive.

The debate of PC over Mac will likely heat up. When people ask me what kind of computer to get, especially people of a certain mature era (old), I stump them with this question: What do you need a computer for?

In your case, what apps do you need to run? What hardware environment will best support the software requirements? What is the best hedge against obsolesce?

A PC should not be the default selection. You should give Mac an equal consideration. After looking at the market offerings you can make an informed decision. But whether you buy a Mac or a PC is really the final decision after filtering down through your requirements.

I'm a PC person. But that is simply because Mac doesn't offer a better solution for my requirements. YMMV.

[David Freed]

Thanks for all the replies. lots of helpful info. A few more things I should have mentioned that might affect some of your answers. I have always bought the very cheapest computer I could find and have never had a program that it can't handle. The laptop I am using now is years old and originally only had 128 mb of ram. I can't find what the L2 cache is, but I would bet it is 1/2 meg or probably less. I bought a 1 gig of ram to speed it up a little (the most you could put in it) and it is doing just fine for me. The 2 or 3 second delays usually aren't a problem. A large program for me is probably something you would consider trivial. I am just wanting to get another laptop and get all my programs on it before this one just up and dies. I originally had a $400 limit, but as you see I am considering a $500 computer. I am pretty sure that puts a mac out of the picture. All of the computers I am looking at are high end Cadillacs compared to mine. Does this change any of your answers or advice?


Check this one out. 8 hours of battery life !

My brother got it and he is getting a little over 7 hours or real time battery life. Which is pretty amazing.

http://www.amazon.com/Acer-Timeline-AS3810TZ-4925-13-3-Inch-Aluminum/dp/B002P8M6EI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1258817886&sr=8-1

That is really good, but actually, battery life is one of the lowest things on my priority list because I rarely have it unplugged. Thanks for the reference though.

[Keith Harrell]

1 - Dual core is better than single core (I think), but why?
Yes it is. One processor can be handling the operating system and the processor or core can handle programs being run. This is refered to as scheduler in the OS. Dual core is as cheap as single in most cases.
2 - What is the difference between Celeron and Pentium?
It the onboard memory in the processor along with FSB speed and how it is used generally. It's not the system ram in the computer. The CPU has L2 memory to fetch or pull programs or instructions to be read and to run. May times a program will have to jump around in the program and by having more cache it does have to read from slow system ram. More is better up to a point. I would not consider the celeron as it has limited cache. The memory in the cpu is the most costly part of the pricing the cpu by intel or others and called L2 memory
3 - I know a faster processor is better and I know more ram is better. Is a slower processor with lots of ram better or worse than a fast processor with a small amount of ram? Big question.
I would buy the fastest dual core 64 bit processor your budget could afford. Memory generally can be added later if you find you need it. The 2.8-3.0 gig processor is generally the sweet spot in pricing for desktops and you should have at least 2 gigs to start. Laptop sweet point is 2.5-2.8.
These are older processor(speed) but are fine. They will use more battery power but the price is great and will handle windows XP or 7
4 - Would I be able to tell much or any difference between A and B below using my small programs? Yes B should be much faster.

D looks like a real nice system but I have no experience with any of these units. Good luck

ps. I think all of these were 64 bit but that would also in speed and if you want to expand the memory later.
Try Google and the models to see what other think.

[Anthony Scira]

I would go with the Acer through Amazon. They beat Circuit City and Best Buy. And always have FREE 2nd day shipping. Don't know how those guys do it.

Make sure you get a Notebook and NOT a NETBOOK that runs Linux if your wanting to use older programs.

And yes if you think you will need support you may consider a Mac. I don't think you can get any sub 400 though.

[paul cottingham]

Netbooks are a pretty good value. A lot of windows apps will run in Linux using wine. But check first.

[Randal Stevenson]

Make sure you get a Notebook and NOT a NETBOOK that runs Linux if your wanting to use older programs.



Netbooks are a pretty good value. A lot of windows apps will run in Linux using wine. But check first.

GOOD LUCK trying to FIND a netbook with Linux as the OS anymore. I wanted a hard drive, not a SSD, so I waited, and you can't find them. What I ended up with (bought last Christmas) is LEGALLY, by the companies definition, a Notebook, but looking at the guts, is a hyped Netbook.

[paul cottingham]

That's funny i thought they all ran Linux with X-Windows.

<edit> OOPS my bad, further research show that i am in fact wrong, and most netbooks run a stripped down version of windows. The open source zealot in me took over my reason. Too bad. <edit>

BTW Randall, some models of the ASUS EEEPC comes with linux.

[David Freed]

I am not even looking at netbooks. Since there are a zillion (almost) different models to choose from, I am only looking at 15" screens. That is the size I compromised on. Smaller isn't big enough to see well and larger is starting to get too bulky. I am also taking the customer reviews into consideration. I ruled one out that several people had trouble typing on because of the keyboard design.

[David Freed]

Thanks for all the info. I went to a Best But store and bought the Asus (D in my first post). If that computer goes on sale on Friday, I can take the receipt back to the store and they will refund the difference. I was talking to one of the sales people while there. He said that Asus manufactures higher end computers. The $500 model that I bought was the low end model that Asus makes. He also said that Asus makes parts for Mac computers. Is that right or did he make that up?

[Scott Shepherd]

He also said that Asus makes parts for Mac computers. Is that right or did he make that up?

Don't know what "parts" he's talking about. I'm not aware of Asus making anything for Apple. Intel makes the components and Apple puts it all together, from what I understand. Pretty much all Intel, tightly controlled and manufactured for Apple only.

Unless something has changed since I read about it last, which is quite possible, but searching Asus' website for apple or mac brings up zero results.

[Randal Stevenson]

Unless something has changed since I read about it last, which is quite possible, but searching Asus' website for apple or mac brings up zero results.

The real trick would be WHO makes their laptop computers, as three general companies make the items to the manufacturers specs. Now Asus IS a major motherboard manufacturer, but if they make them for Apple, they will say Apple and without internal numbers, you would never know they were Asus.

[Scott Shepherd]

if they make them for Apple, they will say Apple and without internal numbers, you would never know they were Asus.

True, but that market isn't too good and keeping secrets and I haven't seen anything out there saying that Asus is making them. As I said, it doesn't mean they don't make them, it just means I haven't read anything or heard anything that says Asus does make them.

[Bryan Hosford]

1 - Dual core is better than single core (I think), but why?

- doesn't really matter with your useage, but It's getting harder to find single processor systems and there isn't a real cost difference anymore.


2 - What is the difference between Celeron and Pentium?

- again with the apps your running doesn't matter.

3 - I know a faster processor is better and I know more ram is better. Is a slower processor with lots of ram better or worse than a fast processor with a small amount of ram?

- Ram is king, processors today are overkill for the work they do. it's the lack of ram that causes the processor to not only do it's work but also move data back and forth from the hard drive. The proccessor speed doesn't really matter.

[Darius Ferlas]

Here's my $0.02:

1 - Dual core is better than single core (I think), but why?

- In some cases dual core could actually be worse. In most cases of personal computing it doesn't matter.

[paul cottingham]

True, but that market isn't too good and keeping secrets and I haven't seen anything out there saying that Asus is making them. As I said, it doesn't mean they don't make them, it just means I haven't read anything or heard anything that says Asus does make them.
If you are referring to Asus netbooks, here:
http://ca.asus.com/ProductGroup1.aspx?PG_ID=7dDelmkESu9DXgVB

[Scott Shepherd]

If you are referring to netbooks, here:
http://ca.asus.com/ProductGroup1.aspx?PG_ID=7dDelmkESu9DXgVB

Apple doesn't have a netbook that I know of.

[Keith Harrell]

No Asus does provide anything other than Video cards. Asus doen't market apple under there name. There are some clones people have built using Asus parts but these are not supported by Apple at all.