Using Rail and Stile Bits

[Rod Goodin]

I have the Whiteside Rail and Stile bits (6001) and I am having a hard time figuring out the required dimensions of the rails before milling to get the correct door width when using 2.2" rails and stiles. What is the rule of thumb here?
Thanks
Rod

[Dave Mendoza]

Measure the depth from the cutter edge to the bearing. I have the Sommerfeld set and it's exactly 0.5", so I make my rails and stiles 2.5". My other set is CMT and it's 7/16" for each side. I make my rails and stiles 2 7/16" with the CMT set, so I can subtract 4" from the width.

[keith ouellette]

make a test cut and measure how deep the groove is with a combination square. Multiply that by 2 for the width and the height and then subtract about an 1/8" from the wdth and 1/8" or 1/16" for the height for expansion room. Subtract more if its a large door.

[David DeCristoforo]

Most cope and stick cutters have a cutting depth of 3/8". Some are 7/16" and there are even some that cut 1/2" deep. But using 3/8" for example, start with your net door width. If you want a 12" wide door, subtract the width of the stiles (2.25" ea.) to get a rail length of 7 inches. Add double the cutting depth of your cutter to get the rail length including the two copes. So with a 3/8" cutting depth, a 2.25" stile width and a 12" wide door, your rails should be cut at 7 3/4". Obviously, the difference between the rail length and the finished door width in this example is 4 1/4". So, whatever your "other" door widths are, simply subtract 4 1/4" to get the rail length for that door. Anytime you make doors with those cutters and use a 2.25" stile width, the 4 1/4" deduction will give you the correct rail length. If you alter the width of the stiles, you will need to adjust accordingly. So if you wanted 2.5" stiles, you would have to deduct another 1/2" (1/4" per stile) so your deduction would be 4 3/4" instead of 4 1/4". Capice?

[Bob Carreiro]

Rather than using all the "math" methods described above, there is a simpler way, at least until such time you become more competent.

1) Profile two styles (length is unimportant, just make sure they're the width that will be used. Use scrap if you want to).

2) Lay them on your workbench, profiles facing each other and position them apart to the width of your door.

3) Measure the distance from the groove bottom of one style to the groove bottom of the other style. THIS IS THE LENGTH OF YOUR RAILS.

Have a good time. Woodworking is great!

[David DeCristoforo]

"...there is a simpler way..."

and it will absolutely work. For one or two doors. But for a whole kitchen's worth? Or a whole house worth? Unless you deign your house around your cabinets and your cabinets around a predetermined door width, you will have a lot of different width doors and the "direct measurement" system could get a bit time consuming. BTW, it's not "math". It's simple arithmetic.

[Neal Clayton]

fwiw, if you're using mortise/tenon joints, there's no need to measure or calculate at all.

figure your door width, figure your tenon length, draw out your door and the rail length is the space between your stiles plus the tenon lengths. you're leaving a bit on one with the cope, and taking the same amount away from the other.

difference = zero.

[Tom Veatch]

Length of the rail is the width of the door plus 3/4" minus twice the width of the stile.

Before you cut the rails to length, verify that the Whiteside 6001 set leaves a 3/8" tongue on the rail. If it doesn't, replace "3/4" above with the tongue length x 2.

You'll need to make a trial cut or two to verify and adjust the bit height so just measure the tongue on one of those trial cuts to get the first hand information.

[Rod Goodin]

Thank you all for your replies I will use Davids arithmetic.
Rod

[Bob Wingard]

I too use David's calculated method .. ..

Where it REALLY shines is this .. ..

Do the math one time, and you'll know exactly the allowance to leave for every door on that job, assuming all stiles are the same width, and you're using that same bit set.

Let's assume you've got some REALLY freaky bits with a tenon length of 0.549 and your rails are all 2.615" wide, and your door is to be 18.815" wide.

I know .. it's NEVER gonna happen, but just for illustration's sake .. ..

18"-(2.615"X2)+(0.549"X2)=18"-5.23-1.098=13.868

18"-13.868"=4.132"

All of your rails should be 4.132" shorter than your desired door widths in order to come out right. You can do all the math 50 times for 50 doors .. and possibly make a few computational errors, OR you can line up all of the door widths and subtract 4.132" from each door width, and go to work.

[David DeCristoforo]

Let's try and make this simple (it really is).

Rail length = door width - 2X stile width + 2X cutter depth.

Once you have done this for one door, subtract the final rail length from the door width. The difference will give you a "standard" deduction that you can subtract from any width door to get the rail length for that door (assuming that the stile width is the same.) Anytime you use that cutter set you can use the same deduction to establish your rail lengths (again assuming that your stile width is the same. If it's not, you need to adjust.)

[keith ouellette]

Let's try and make this simple (it really is).

Rail length = door width - 2X stile width + 2X cutter depth.

Once you have done this for one door, subtract the final rail length from the door width. The difference will give you a "standard" deduction that you can subtract from any width door to get the rail length for that door (assuming that the stile width is the same.) Anytime you use that cutter set you can use the same deduction to establish your rail lengths (again assuming that your stile width is the same. If it's not, you need to adjust.)

don't forget to subtract a tiny bit for expansion.

[Don Morris]

Dave's right: cutter depth! I have a Freud set and even though the advertised depth is such and such, it's NOT on my set. I have a "cheat sheet" for my Freud set, and my CMT is just as CMT advertises. So I'd do a "test" run on your set just in case the cutter depth isn't as advertised. The cutter depth is what it is.

[David DeCristoforo]

"...don't forget to subtract a tiny bit for expansion..."

This should be allowed for "up front" when determining your finished door size. Not just for expansion but whatever clearances are necessary for hinging, desired reveals, etc.

[Steve Clardy]

6001, 6002, etc., are 3/8" tenon length.
I use the 6002.



For instance, I use 2-1/2" width rail and stiles as standard.


Door width, say 15". I just subtract 4-1/4" to get my rail length.

[Greg Sznajdruk]

I wrote an Excel program to do these calculations. Its for a two door but you can easily modify for one door.




http://www.4shared.com/account/file/...alculator.html


Greg

[Joe Wiliams]

I wrote an Excel program to do these calculations. Its for a two door but you can easily modify for one door.




http://www.4shared.com/account/file/...alculator.html


Greg
The link is incomplete...

[Greg Sznajdruk]

http://www.4shared.com/account/file/123387027/37325f44/Gregs_Rail__Stile_Calculator.html

Sorry try this link.
I don't know why but when I past a link address to the forum it truncates the information. Below is the link less http://www

.4shared.com/account/file/123387027/37325f44/Gregs_Rail__Stile_Calculator.html

Greg

[Ron Bontz]

I just finished a couple of quick 15" doors last night using my Whiteside rail and stile cutters. The thought processes behind the math is always interesting. Mine for a 15" with 2.5" stiles....15"-5"=10" +3/4" (tennon overlap x2)=10-3/4"= rails and panel widths. Same road, different paths.

[David DeCristoforo]

"Same road, different paths."

True.... The real time saver is to determine a "standard deduction" using the cutting depth and stile width. Once you have that, you only need to subtract that from any door width to get the correct rail length. That way you don't have to repeat the entire process for every different width of door.