Wanting to learn the basics of veneering and vacuum bags

[Stephen Edwards]

I've recently done my first veneer work, small pieces. I want to learn more and am looking for previous threads that concentrate on the "basics for beginners".

I've read about the veneer clamps and have saved some great threads to file so I can review them when I wish. I understand cauls (cawls, whatever the proper spelling) and how they work. I even understand how you can use a slightly bowed caul so that you don't need as many clamps.

However, I know nothing about the vacuum bags. Links to useful threads that explain the basics to beginners would be appreciated. Explanations on how to make one for one's self in the shop would be great! Also recommendations for commercially available ones that aren't expensive would be useful.

Assume that you're teaching a woodworker with moderate skills and average or above average reading comprehension skills.

One initial question that I have: Are there any disadvantages to using Baltic Birch for the core/substrate. Somehow, and maybe not for a logical reason, I like the idea of using BB rather than MDF.

The largest size that I'd be working with in the beginning would be in the 24" x 30" range, most smaller than that.

Thanks in advance for your tips, links to tutorials, information of any kind that you think would be useful would be very much appreciated. I really want to learn more about this area of woodworking.

Best Regards,

[Mike Henderson]

Look at Joe Woodworker for some good information on vacuum bags and pumps.

Regarding bags, I would recommend getting a 4' by 8' bag as you first bag. The reason is that you can do smaller stuff in the 4x8 but you can't do bigger stuff is you buy something like a 4x4 or a 2x4. Later you can buy a smaller bag for your small stuff. It's like buying clamps - many people buy their big clamps first because they can use them on small glue-ups, but they wind up buying small clamps later because they're more convenient.

Vinyl bags are less expensive than poly bags but are less flexible and generally thicker. If you decide to go with a vinyl bag, I have a good 4x8 that I'll sell you for a good price (I upgraded to poly). I was keeping it for backup but I'm feeling confident in the poly.

I use good quality Baltic birch as a substrate for some things and it works fine. If at all possible, orient the BB so your veneer is cross grain on both sides (just another ply, in essence). But there's nothing wrong with MDF for certain applications - I use it quite a bit.

Get a bag and a pump and start doing some veneering. Ask questions when you have problems. You'll be competent in no time.

Mike

[Mike Henderson]

For a good book on general veneering (not much on vacuum bags), try "Woodworker's Guide to Veneering and Inlay (http://www.amazon.com/Woodworkers-Guide-Veneering-Inlay-Techniques/dp/1565233468/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1258764808&sr=8-1)" by Jonathan Benson.

Mike

[Carroll Courtney]

Stephen,go to Mikes website for inspiration.Fantastic work and lots of good ideals.Carroll

[David DeCristoforo]

"...getting a 4' by 8' bag as you first bag..."

The only "caveat" I would throw in here is that larger bags can be a bit awkward when laying up smaller pieces and they take longer to evacuate with a small pump. Ready made bags are IMMHO way overpriced. They are so easy to make with some sheet material and glue that it is well worth making your own bags. Also, it is easy to make up custom sizes and shapes when needed. The materials are ridiculously cheap compared to the cost of pre made bags.

[David Perata]

I have a 4 X 8 bag and good pump. I had to learn the curve from scratch. I veneer bird's eye maple onto baltic birch 1/2" ply. Cold press glue. Works great. I had to invent ways to veneer around curves and such for special parts that I needed.

I got my set-up from Vacuum Pressing Systems. www.vacupress.com (http://www.vacupress.com) Darryl is a great guy and has helped me with a lot of technical solutions when I needed it. That support is very important. He has a video on veneering that shows how to use the bag and pump. I bought that first and then ordered it from him.

I did look at building my own but decided to get it ready to go. Depends on your budget I guess.

There are some tricks that I learned from doing that I have no idea if they are in the books. I'd be happy to help you out if you have any questions. I'm no authority but I do make high end furniture and I'm pretty fussy about the parts I make.

[Frank Drew]

Using a vacuum pump is, IMO, the single greatest advance in veneering in I don't know how long. The start up costs are fairly low, particularly if you make your own bags as David suggests, and excellent quality pumps are often available used. You can go from a total newbie to pressing your own high-quality panels in no time at all; complex layups, of course, require more skill and experience.

I was trying to figure out how to fit a traditional veneer press in my already crowded shop when I read an article on vacuum veneering in FWW (this was years ago), and it was like a light went on.

[Stephen Edwards]

Thanks folks. I'm sure that I'll have more questions as I dive into this. For now, I'll start with the provided links. Thank you again, very much.

[Jim Tobias]

+1 on vacupress systems and also Darryl's dvds. They are very informative and worth watching thoroughly before your first vacuum press job.

Jim

[Mike Henderson]

Using a vacuum pump is, IMO, the single greatest advance in veneering in I don't know how long.
+1 (or more)

I've had some problems making bags for myself (leaks). I finally gave up and just bought some factory made bags. I'm sure it's possible to make good working bags, I just couldn't do it.

I also agree about the Vacupress DVDs. The one I watched was for advanced techniques but it was very good. I assume the basic veneering DVD is equally good.

Mike