Which dovetail jig is the best out there-long

[Mike Tempel]

I know this question will bring all sorts of responses - and I can't wait to read them all. Which is the best dovetail jig for through, half blind, and box joints? I currently have a C'man:mad: and have had fairly good luck with it for about 10 years. But, it may be time to move on and up. I generally build small stuff and some occassional furniture as a hobbyist. I am not concerned too much with cost as long as I get something that I will use and won't regret buying. My tool money has been in hiding for some time and it is getting high time to let it see some light :D. Don't tell momma though ;) .
Today I am trying to do some half blind dovetails in 5/8" quartersawn red oak for a dresser. I have 12 drawers to do and my patience is running thin with the C'man. I have spent most of my extremely limited shop time today trying to get the setup right but have ran into one problem after another.
I have been considering the Leigh for some time but the setup and the fiddling is something I generally don't have time for. Recently I started doing some research on the Akeda (sp??) and it seems pretty nice with easy setup but the versatility seems shorter than the Leigh. What about the PC omnijig? Don't know much about it but ran across it while doing some surfing recently.
These are the three that interest me the most. I really like the extra artistic style pins/tails the Leigh can cut but another 300 for a template and another day of setup kinda scares me off. Is the Akeda simply an overpriced piece of plastic or will it last another 10 years or more? In short which is the ONE??
Any comments would be greatly appreciated. Sorry so long but I could go on and on about this.
Thanks, Mike :confused:

[Frank Pellow]

I will also be interested in the responese in this thread as I will probably be purchasing a dovetail jig in about 6 months. For me, the main contenders right now are the Leigh D4 (made in Canada) and the Festool VS 600 (made in Germany). It would be great if we hear from someone who has used both.

[Tom Hintz]

This is a simple question for me, the Leigh D4. The only thing I hate about it is that it took me so many years (and other jigs) before I bought it.
\Aas for the setup time, that's pretty much a function of familiarity. Once you get used to it, it's not bad at all. considering it's flexibility and capacity, I can't think of anything else I want to even try for making dovetails, through or half-blind.
I have a review of the D4 at the link below.

http://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/leighjig.html

[Bob Reda]

I have both the Poerter Cable Omni and the Leigh D4. I like the porter cable for half blind and the Leigh for through dovetails. The set up for the porter cable is a little heavy at first, but once its set up not too much more has to be done. I havent tried the Festol

Bob

[Jim Becker]

From a flexibilty standpoint, the Leigh and the Akeda lead the pack with the former being more flexible (and wider) than the latter. There also has been significant supply issues with the Akeda due to a factory fire well over a year ago, although "someone posted somewhere recently that they saw them for sale again somewhere". The OmniJig is also quite capable as long as you like more fixed format/size for your dovetails.

I own the Leigh and wouldn't give it up for anything. Awesome machine and the best manual in the business. Lee Valley generally has about the best price on it, although it's come up a few bucks in the last two years from what I paid. ($329)

[H.R. Shadow]

I've had the Akeda for a couple of years now and am happy with it. It's not plastic and it will last 10yrs or more I'm sure. Setup couldn't be simpler and the vacumn attachment REALLY works.
The 16" capacity is more than enough for what I need and it stores compactly when I don't use it.
Woodcraft is carrying them again, (and now Whiteside is making bits for the Akeda), so availability is no longer an issue.
Granted it won't do the isoloc joints, but then if that's what you're after perhaps the Jointech or Incra setup would be worth your while to look into.

[Dennis Peacock]

I've used a few DT Jigs in my time.....The best one that I have tried that is simple and easy? The Akeida. For a pro shop....the D4 Leigh is the ticket although it does take a fairly steep learning curve like the OmniJig.

[Michael Stafford]

I know this is only a one function DT jig but I have been using the Keller for a long time. For through dovetails, as long as you are happy with their spacing, it is hard to beat for speed and repeatability. Obviously not the most flexible but it does do one thing very well.

[mike lucas]

I have the D3, and would not trade it for all the others combined. And it also will last 10 years. I bought it in 1994 and have made at least 600 drawers and many other aplications that made great use of the Leigh dovetail jig.

[Leif Hanson]

In short which is the ONE??
Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Well... since you said "any" comments... and you want the *one* that will do them all...

<UNPLUGGING thread><UNPLUGGING thread the>
*unplugging thread*

The most universal jig is...

http://www.norsewoodsmith.com/ww/dovetail/final/saws0003.jpg

A back saw! Does 'em all! :cool: (along with a chisel or two, of course)

Honestly, I've used a few jigs, but I don't do enough drawers or dovetailed joints to warrant purchasing a router jig. For the dozen or so drawers I might do in a year, I can do them faster with a saw, if you included set up time. If I was working in a production oriented environment building say, cabinets, it might be another story. But 'heirloom' quality pieces (as if I can say that of anything I might build :p HA!) will always get the hand treatment from me.

OK, I'll slink back into the background again...



*plugging thread back in*

<THREAD in back plugged>

[nic obie]

I have never used a Leigh jig so I can't comment on them. However I've owned an Akeda for a few years and really like it. The set-up is fool proof with built in repeatability. The dust control is almost 100%. (If you've ever used a dovetail jig you will know how important this is). As to joints longer than 18", even though I've never done one, the manual (which by the way is excellent) says that they are possible by shifting the wood. So I guess any length is possible.

[Jamie Buxton]

I'm with Michael on this one. I've used lots of different dovetail jigs over the years, but now only use the Keller. For me, its big benefit is that it is simple to use. I don't have to re-read the instruction book, or review a video, every time I want to make a bunch of drawers. I can pull it out and put it to use immediately. It doesn't even require test cuts to set the depth of the bit. It also doesn't care whether the sides are the same thickness as the fronts or backs. For me, speed is important. My goal is to build strong drawers without fussing over them.

The Keller does only make through dovetails. For me, that's fine. I build drawer boxes and then apply the drawer front. An applied drawer front allows all sorts of design possibilities. I can match grains with the rest of the furniture. I can use veneered panels. I can easily adjust the gaps around the edges of inset drawers. If I make a mistake on the front, or it gets dinged by my or the customer, I can replace it without remaking the box.

[Jim Martin]

I keep hearing about this "steep learning curve" associated with the Leigh but I don't get it. After mine arrived a couple of years ago I unpacked it, watched the video and stepped through making a perfect half blind dovetail in less than two hours. By the end of the weekend everything was second nature to me and I haven't picked up the book since. I have shown several friends how to use it and it has been the same for them. I found it to be very intuitive and simple to use.

[Joe Tonich]

I have the D4 and like it a lot. It's pretty easy to set up and can make all kinds of dovetails. If you want diff. designs they have templates for them also. :cool:

Joe

[Jim Becker]

I keep hearing about this "steep learning curve" associated with the Leigh but I don't get it. After mine arrived a couple of years ago I unpacked it, watched the video and stepped through making a perfect half blind dovetail in less than two hours. By the end of the weekend everything was second nature to me and I haven't picked up the book since...~snip~...I found it to be very intuitive and simple to use.
I have to agree totally with this as it was my experience, too...and I didn't bother with the video before I started using it. Further, I keep samples of previous jointery that lets me setup very quickly for bit-height and only having to do one quick test sample before cutting the real deal. Frankly, the Leigh is easier to use than the {thought deleted} half-blind thingie I had before it! (and more consistant) I have no doubt that the Akeda is similar in that respect, altough it would be surprising that there is any machine with a better manual than the Leigh. One other thing, folks that have called Leigh with questions or for technical support usually report talking to the man who invented it...that's nice, too.

[mike lucas]

The Leigh dovetail jig is one of the most difficult dovetail jigs to learn. But if you use it for cutting just one or two different types of dovetails (Like most of the others are limited too.) it then is not at all difficult to learn or use.

With that all said, I don’t know why someone would buy the Leigh for just a couple different types of dovetails. This jig blows all the others away when it comes to what it can do (At a pretty hefty price I might add.) However; with just the basic jig it can still do much more then the others.

Some times I will do several different sizes and types of dovetails on a project. This can not be done with most if not all the others dovetail jigs.

I have had this jig for many years and nothing has needed replaced, and it all is in excellent condition. To me the Leigh jigs is worth the money!

[Christian Aufreiter]

I hesitated to post this message because I have no first-hand experience with DT jigs. But Frank encouraged me to share my information during a private email conversation. My information is based on a couple of posts which I read on German ww forums.
Basically, there's not a wide range of jigs available on the European market so choices are rather limited.
A couple of people decided between the Leigh D4 and the Festool VS 600 and I have the impression that the Leigh is the better option. Some of those guys are real Festool fans (one hobby woodworker owns at least 20 Festools) but he went with the D4. He had a close look on the VS 600 and even owned the old VS 500 before but finally he sold it and got the Leigh and is absolutely satisfied with it.
Of course, the basic difference between the D4 and the Festool VS 600 is that the Festool uses fixed templates while the D4 allows variable spacing. On the one hand DT jigs with fixed spacing usually require less setup time, on the other hand the dimensions of the drawers depend on the templates and the DTs hardly have a hand-cut look.
IMO, the DT jigs with fixed spacing are great for small production runs.
One important advantage of the VS 600 is that it can be used for doweling with the Euro 32 mm method. But as you certainly know, doweling can be done with other jigs and machines as well.
Advantages of the D4 pointed out on the German forums are:
- Versatility
- Better look of the joints due to different angles of the router bits
- Small DTs can be made without problems
- Handles 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 und 12 mm box joints, Festool only 6 and 10 mm

Hope this helps,

Christian

[Ken Wright]

I've been using the Keller for a couple of years. Its an easy setup .. flexible in that you can either stagger the cuts for random spacing and you can dovetail a piece a mile long if you like. Couple that with a set of the smaller bits and you are set for varying size cuts.

Once you have it set up ... there's no hassle ... no going to the book .. just cut'em. The down side .. it'll only cut through's ... but that's fine with me .. don't think there's a way to use too many dovetails on a piece.

[Scott Coffelt]

I've got four choices and each has it's place, the top one is the best overall but costs a lot - Leigh, I have a Jet for 1/2 blinds that is used for drawer assembly only, three is the Incra for smaller but gets used very rarely and is mainly for an accurate router fence, then final is hand cut (used very very little). So..... I would say the Leigh if I was to buy just one.

[Ted Shrader]

Mike -

I used my Craftsman :( for several pieces. I works. Not well, not poorly. It works. So I was in the same boat as you are. Ended up with the Leigh D4. Watched the video, tried it out on some scrap. No real problems getting it to work well.

The part that is the most appealing is the adjustability. With a fixed style - Craftsman or other, better model – you are stuck with fixed width spacing which dictates your drawer side width to increments of 1” or so. Pull out any of the drawers on the pieces I used the Craftsman jig on and you will see that the sides of the drawers don’t really match the holes they are in. The adjustability feature is especially useful when building furniture designed with proportionally sized drawers. i.e. Those developed using the “Golden Rule”.

The Leigh is kind of $pendy, but it does go on sale occasionally. If you can wait, I recommend keeping your eyes open for a good deal.

Regards,
Ted

[mike lucas]

I just broke my favorite router bit for dovetailing, so now without a backup I am dead in the water until I get it replaced. I am glad it is a CMT with a life time warranty, as this is the 3rd time I have had one shear off at the neck. I think it is time to buy 2 or 3 extras for such times as this.:(

[Jim Becker]

I just broke my favorite router bit for dovetailing, so now without a backup I am dead in the water until I get it replaced. I am glad it is a CMT with a life time warranty, as this is the 3rd time I have had one shear off at the neck. I think it is time to buy 2 or 3 extras for such times as this.
This is exactly the reason that Leigh recommends the 8mm shanks...more metal that can handle the stress of dovetailing, which can get pretty heavy from time to time. If you look at a dovetail bit, there is a lot of mass at the "bottom" of the cutting portion that tapers up to an area of minimal mass at the shank. A lot of force gets focused at that point when cutting, especially in harder materials.

You could also set up a second router with a straight bit and guide bushing to remove most of the material before milling with the dovetail bit.

[Frank Pellow]

I am escaping from the cold outside (4 degrees Celcius) for a while to warm myself with a coffee, so I thought that I would kill some time counting "votes" posted so far in this thread. Where people have mentioned two jigs, I have given each half a vote.

Here is the result listing the jigs that have been mentioned so far:


Leigh D4: 9 (eight full votes and two half votes)

Keller: 3

Akeda: 2.5

Leigh D3: 1

Porter Cable Omni: .5

Festool VS 600: 0

Now, back to the cold ...

[Charlie Plesums]

Add my vote for the Leigh D4, and for the 8mm (not 1/4 inch shaft) router bits - Leigh has a collar to use them in a 1/2 inch collet.

The initial assembly and adjusting the square of the jig takes hours, but subsequent setup is fast. The manual is long but excellent - you can get the answer to a question, with pictures, in no time. My first dovetail was as perfect as any - I don't bother with test boards any more. Variable spacing is easy, and different thickness wood is a breeze (not true with all jigs).

The only bad dovetails I have cut was when I was demonstrating the D4 to our woodworking club, and installed the wrong bit. Of course, I messed up with 25 people watching!

The only downside I have found is that the dovetail bit is larger than the guide collar, so must be installed through the collar. Some routers assume you will tighten the bit then put it through the collar, which doesn't work - installing the bit can be difficult with these routers. Also, if using a plunge router and it releases, you have the opportunity to buy a new collar for $6 from Woodcraft (DAMHIKT) but the brass collar doesn't damage the carbide bit
I graduated from the Porter Cable 12 inch - anyone want to make an offer?

[Mark J Bachler]

Porter Cable 7116 Omni Jig, 24" Massive, very heavy & stable. Great hold downs. Can be used with either stationary or adjustable jigs. Can put all 4 pieces on at once. A production machine. Paid $349 Tool Crib in Duluth Mn.

[Michael Stafford]

I second what Jim Becker said regarding a second bit to remove some of the bulk. Highly recommended. The first time I ever cut a dovetail with the router a bit broke. It was recommended to me at that time to do the second router with a straight bit to remove some of the bulk. Have not broken a bit since. Knock on wood...

[Dave Richards]

I have to stick in my suggestion. I like the WoodRat for doing DTs. I won't say anymore unless prodded but I will add this: It works with any dovetail bit. The D4 doesn't.

I'll go lay down by my dish now. :D