New Fine Woodworking Online Survey

[Howard Ruttan]

Just curious...

I received email notification of the new online survey by Fine Woodworking which is supposed to lead up to their new fall tool buying issue. I realize it is about buying new tools, but generally I thought the survey didn't really reveal anything about my tool buying habits. They didn't ask what I was in the market for and the questions seemed to be geared to someone's idea (not sure whose) of what the hot selling items are right now. Like many of you , I'm sure, I put quite a bit of thought into buying a tools before I actually spend the money - and I intend to keep them as long as possible in order to get my money's worth. Thus most of my tools are getting old, I suppose. I felt that the survey didn't really make allowances for that style of buying. I guess maybe it wasn't meant to but it just seemed to me that it was missing something.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

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[John Lucas]

if that they ask for our input and the very first screen wants my email address (sounds like a mailing list in the making to me.) And then they insist on downloading "flash" in case I don't have it. I DO have it, but I can't imagine a real survey needing flash.

Needless to say...I got no further than this screen but I did write them with this message...for what good it will do.

[Bob Oswin]

I take it if you check one box off as "good" that the others them must be less than or better than good?
If you dont check off anything , does that count as positive or negative input?

If you own a tool and rate it, does that count more than if you just covet one?

If you own a tool for several years does that make your assesment more valid? ( Have you actually used it?)

Where did these guys learn about statistics?

I think I'm getting Grumpy, or is that just Oldtimers kicking in?

p.s. sorry Zack I used your e-mail address!

Bob:p

[Keith Outten]

I guess it is so obvious that most people don't give it a thought when they are asked for their email address. The truth is that a reliable email list can be worth literally thousands of dollars.

Companies who have large web sites that get lots of hits and more often than not have a "Sign Our Guestbook" and win a prize graphic often sell the list of email addresses and make money, it can even be extremely profittable if you sell your listing to lots of different spammers. If the demographics of your list are particularly attractive as it contains people in a special market that generally purchase large items the value increases again.

How do you think they pay for the free "Goodies" they bait you with to get you to sign their guestbook or drawing?

I've been approached more times than I can count, the answer has always been NO...but it is very hard to turn down that much money when you are a very small company. My response gets easier when I remind myself that it is just the wrong thing to do even though everyone does it...even the companies we have grown to respect as reputable businesses.

They use all kinds of ploys like offering to send you the results of a survey, a free prize, subscriptions to magazines, etc. The bottom line folks is that you get exactly what you pay for in this world and the Internet is not an exception to this age old rule.

[Paul Geer]

I think the survey was based on brands, in other words, what brand is being purchased by the readership. In turn might effect what adds you'll find in the magazine, after all most people may buy a tool based on, if it is advertised in their favorite mag. Some even feel good about seeing their tool upheld in an add or a tool "good report" of some kind and give the magazine a good referal.

I would think FWW would be above that. Maybe...

[Howard Ruttan]

Originally posted by Paul Geer
I think the survey was based on brands, in other words, what brand is being purchased by the readership.

Actually, that was one of the things that bothered me, sort of. They did have several brands represented but every question had one particular product from that brand. In the case of the routers, they went so far as to limit them to 2HP plunge routers and asked no questions about any other form of router.

Sorry, I just find it, as far as surveys go, to be "off". Just my feeling.

[Paul Geer]

There's something interesting, speeking of 2HP routers, I noticed most of the TV woodworker or home improvment shows are using 2HP routers. For example, Norm likes to use his Porter Cable 2HP router it seems every time I see the NYW. We have I think about ten woodworking or home improvment shows in our area, it seems they all are 2HP routers for any job that could be done with a 1HP router. Maybe there's a push on 2HP routers...eh

I sometimes think these surveys are simply a industry sample to see how their adds are doing.

[Paul Geer]

*

[Dave Avery]

Paul,

I think the 2hp router phenomenon is related to how useful the tool is, not advertising by the manufacturers. I don't raise panels with a router, so a 2 hp is more than enough router to handle most applications with the added benefit of being lighter and quieter. I do have a 3 hp, but it is used almost exclusively in a horizontal router table. Dave.

[Paul Geer]

Hey Dave,

I'm the same way, have a 3HP PC in a router center or table.

Most of the routers I have in the shop are 1 and 1 1/2 HP, plunge and fixed base, all do the job. However, I have been considering the 2HP PC, I think that one has built in dust collection.

Let's face it, manufacturers come up with a new product and put it "out there". Mayit be the NYW or any other woodworking or home improvment show to give it exposure, or maybe by request of people in the industry. Most of the time it flies and it's a good tool. I don't see that as a bad thing, but you do have to discern what a great tool and what's a gimmick.

In other words as a "gimmick" a tool maybe you don't really need.

[Dave Avery]

Paul,

You raise an excellent point regarding tool want vs need.

On the subject of 2 hp routers, I got a great deal a while back on the Makita RF1101 router kit - $219 if I remember correctly. For the life of me I can't understand why this router isn't more popular. It's quiet, fits my hands very well, easy to adjust, and has taken a reasonable beating. It also accepts PC bases and guide bushings. If you're in the market for a good all-around router, give it a look. Dave.

[Jay Kilpatrick]

Originally posted by Keith Outten
I guess it is so obvious ... a reliable email list can be worth literally thousands of dollars... How do you think they pay for the free "Goodies" ... it is very hard to turn down that much money ... it is just the wrong thing to do even though everyone does it...even the companies we have grown to respect as reputable businesses ... you get exactly what you pay for in this world and the Internet is not an exception to this age old rule.

Great points Keith, I hope you don't mind the major snippage. I went in to the taunton website to review their privacy policy. Again, great points Keith. Now, when I wish to change my settings to express not wanting additional "unsolicited" mail of any variety, much less phone calls...from any "reputable" entity, how do I know they will honor my request? I'm not advocating distrust, I'm simply saying that since I'm already ensnared into this dubious game, how can I be assured that any attempt to retrieve my anonymity will be effective and not lead to further encroachment by advertisers?

~Jay...who receives a stack of mail and at least 4 of the aforementioned calls :mad:everyday:mad: between 5 to 9 p.m. Amy says she gets 2-3 calls while I'm at work.

[Keith Outten]

Jay,

I guess you have to decide who you are willing to trust and who you won't when it comes to registering with any web site. I don't know if there is any way to prove whether your email address was sold from any particular source.

Concerning routers I use Bosch 3/4 HP routers for most chores and it is very seldom that I have to use my 3HP other than in a table. Knowing that everyone uses routers differently I can understand how some people would need more power but for me I like the lighter weight.

[John Lucas]

I just received email from Taunton Press thanking me for my email and a link to try again. The form was the very same with the need for email address repeated once and a need to download "flash". What part of my email to them did they read. For sure it wasnt the paragraph lamblasting them for needing email and flash.

[Dave Arbuckle]

What part of my email to them did they read

The part of the header that says "Reply To:"? ;)

Dave
pretty sure Taunton doesn't wany _my_ input on the topic...