Byrd Shelix vs Grizzly vs German [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

james bell

11-09-2009, 5:16 PM

Grizzly offers three types of cutterhead - Byrd, Grizzly, and German made.

I just purchased the 609 with knives. Don't think I will require spiral on the jointer since I always run the wood through a planer but if so, upgrading to a spiral head still saves money since they offered free shipping on the knife model. I am now contemplating the Grizzly 15" planer.

My question to this forum is on the cutterhead. Their "Z" model has the Grizzly cutterhead with German inserts and list price for this head is $550. For $600 you can get the Byrd and for $795 you can get the German one.

Difference in price between the 453 and 453Z is $545, so really a push on buying the 453 with separate cutterhead.

Any information on experience with these different cutterheads would be sincerely appreciate.

jim

Philip Rodriquez

11-09-2009, 6:44 PM

I have a Byrd and a griz. Go with what fits your budget and do not buy in to the hype.

Rick Fisher

11-10-2009, 6:47 AM

I think you will find that the blades are all made in Germany..

I have a head called a Magnum which is used by General and Laguna.. The blades are also made in Germany..

Personally, I wouldn't care .. never really hear too many bad reviews on Helical heads.. Byrd is a US company if that matters.. They could probably use the business..

Mike Cruz

11-10-2009, 9:21 AM

Funny that you asked this question. I have been wondering about the 3 heads that Grizzly offers for some time now, and was going to post this question, too.

It almost seems like a no brainer when one is only $50 more than the other. And that Byrd in made in USA.

But if you look closely, there is a difference between Byrd and the other two, IIFC. The Byrd cutters are in line with each other along the helix, while the other two are square to the cut along the helix. (If that made no sense, look at the pictures of them http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2009/Main/46 )

So for a 15" planer, you could spend $550, $600 (Byrd) or $800. Why the difference? And, other than buying American, why one over the other? If money weren't an issue, what does the $800 version offer that the other two don't?

Myk Rian

11-10-2009, 10:44 AM

Did you price the Byrd through Holbren with the SMC10 coupon code? It'll save you 10%.
I have a Byrd on my Dewalt 735 and love it.

Philip Rodriquez

11-10-2009, 11:01 AM

I have a byrd on a 15" planer and the Griz on my 10" jointer. Other than buying America... there is NO measurable difference in the quality of the cut or the level of noise (as some have mentioned).

It is all a bunch of BS marketing;).

glenn bradley

11-10-2009, 1:56 PM

Mike Cruz

11-10-2009, 2:26 PM

I'm confused, did the X come with the head that is $50 cheaper than the Byrd? Or did it come with the $800 one? The extra $50 for American made AND having the inserts parallel to one another rather than square to the cut seem to be enough of an advantage for me...

Philip Rodriquez

11-10-2009, 4:49 PM

When I was choosing between the G0490 with a Byrd and the G0490X I struggled with this decision. I got the G0490X after hearing a few posts like Philip provides; folks who have both and can actually share their experience found no real difference.

Glen, you are a smart guy! The last time I chimed in on one of these discussions, there was a guy (no names) that was actually making claims of how much better and quieter the Byrd was. I asked him to support his statements and he had nothing... other than an affiliation with powermatic (through his tool reviews). :eek: soooooo...

So, for the folks at home... How do you like your new jointer?

Gregory Stahl

11-10-2009, 5:21 PM

Really, no difference at all in noise? Maybe you want to correct the Grizzly sales people that were selling these very machines at IWF--who told me the Grizzly cutterhead is slightly louder than the Byrd.

I wouldn't know, I have Byrd heads. Just passing on what Grizzly shared with me.

I have a byrd on a 15" planer and the Griz on my 10" jointer. Other than buying America... there is NO measurable difference in the quality of the cut or the level of noise (as some have mentioned).

It is all a bunch of BS marketing;).

Philip Rodriquez

11-10-2009, 5:49 PM

Shiraz Balolia

11-10-2009, 7:05 PM

Really, no difference at all in noise? Maybe you want to correct the Grizzly sales people that were selling these very machines at IWF--who told me the Grizzly cutterhead is slightly louder than the Byrd.

I wouldn't know, I have Byrd heads. Just passing on what Grizzly shared with me.

I don't know in what context that information was imparted to you, but it is not correct. There is no discernable difference in sound level between the Grizzly spiral cutterheads and the Byrds. I have used them both and have made postings in the past about my experience.

richard poitras

11-10-2009, 7:24 PM

Shiraz, why don’t you offer the Byrd head installed on your machines as well?
Thanks Richard

Shiraz Balolia

11-10-2009, 7:59 PM

Shiraz, why don’t you offer the Byrd head installed on your machines as well?
Thanks Richard

Logistically, not practical.

We would have to uncrate every machine, clean it, install the cutterhead, test it, deal with any issues from the installation and re-crate the machine. The cost would become prohibitive and it is a lot cheaper for customers to do it themselves. Besides, our factory installed Grizzly cutterheads are every bit as good, and in some cases better, so we do not see that need. Alternatively, it is also not cost effective to send the Bryds to the factories overseas for pre-installation.

Gregory Stahl

11-10-2009, 8:17 PM

I'm not saying either one is better than the other, just that your sales people there did say they thought the Grizzly was just a bit louder than the Byrd--at least the person I talked too. We even tested the jointers on display and I did think the Grizzly was a bit louder. They weren't trying to sell them to me, we were just discussing. I told them I already had a G0609 with a Byrd installed and I was curious to see how the new Grizzly head compared.

I don't know in what context that information was imparted to you, but it is not correct. There is no discernable difference in sound level between the Grizzly spiral cutterheads and the Byrds. I have used them both and have made postings in the past about my experience.

Shiraz Balolia

11-10-2009, 9:05 PM

[QUOTE=Gregory Stahl;1256840] We even tested the jointers on display and I did think the Grizzly was a bit louder. QUOTE]

We have never had a machine with a Byrd cutterhead on a machine at a show, so a side by side comparison would have been impossible. In any case, the person you probably spoke to will be "educated" tomorrow as he has never heard the two side by side either. Thanks for bringing it up.

Gregory Stahl

11-10-2009, 10:07 PM

The person I spoke with over several days was very knowledgable person. I ordered a G0441 after discussing it with him and am planning to order the G9985 or G9984 sander because of him. He did not cost you a sale nor did he say the Grizzly was inferior in any way.

This was not one of the younger guys at the show. He was not the guy with the wood hanging out by the jointers.

As for Byrd and machinery, I sent you a couple PMs.

[QUOTE=Gregory Stahl;1256840] We even tested the jointers on display and I did think the Grizzly was a bit louder. QUOTE]

We have never had a machine with a Byrd cutterhead on a machine at a show, so a side by side comparison would have been impossible. In any case, the person you probably spoke to will be "edumacated" tomorrow as he has never heard the two side by side either. Thanks for bringing it up.

james bell

11-11-2009, 10:15 AM

Great responses - understand why Grizzly doesn't factory install the Byrd. Maybe a hint to Byrd if they want more business they can ship units to Grizzly in Taiwan/wherever for factory installation.

Philip Rodriquez - the jointer works great. the knives don't cut as smoothly as my old makita planer/jointer, but not an issue as I run the boards through a planer afterwards. Maybe just the first boards (ash) I ran through? If I am not satisfied, can always upgrade to a helix.

After much debate with myself, going with the 15" vs the 20". (waited until the market hit 10,000 before buying the jointer - need it up some more to justify a new planer.) Most write ups I have seen said the 20" is required for furniture building, but if I joint boards I will most likely have them planed first and then can run through my 22-44 sander. Any money saved on the smaller planer can be used for either more wood to play with or more tools!

Decision on the heads will be made at purchase time depending on sales/shipping/etc. It seems they are all fairly comparable, but need to check out what Mike Cruz said about the alignment of the cutters to see if it makes a difference.

THANKS ... Jim

Scott Baer

11-11-2009, 3:05 PM

Someone give me a DB reading. I've go both and I stand behind my statement.

Phillip, If you have an iPhone, there is an decible reading app that records and displays the max Db. Pretty slick and apparently accurate.

Mike Cruz

11-11-2009, 3:10 PM

I have yet to find out if the alignment of each cutter makes a difference or not. I just noticed that there IS one. I would IMAGINE that the way the Byrd's are would shear/slice as opposed to the others that are square to the cut. Picture using your hand plane straight on vs turning it on a slight angle...

mike vance828

11-11-2009, 4:52 PM

Ok, I "hear" everyone but would like to know if the spiral (any) is really worth the price vs standard HSS knives? I don't work with any crazy grain wood, so it seems the knives are ok (and spend the $ on a bigger planer)?????

Mike Cruz

11-11-2009, 4:58 PM

It seems that everyone that has the spiral cutterheads LOVES them...regardless of which one you get. I would say that your MAJOR difference, since you don't plane crazy wood, would be ease of changing blades. Most of us HATE changing planer and jointer blades, so convenience is a huge selling factor. That is why I am considering the purchase...whether now or future...

Cary Falk

11-11-2009, 9:29 PM

imost of us hate changing planer and jointer blades, so convenience is a huge selling factor. That is why i am considering the purchase...whether now or future...

+++++++++++++1

Philip Rodriquez

11-12-2009, 1:10 PM

Phillip, If you have an iPhone, there is an decible reading app that records and displays the max Db. Pretty slick and apparently accurate.

I have a Byrd and a Griz head... therefore, I do not need to support my statement. For the record, I have no affiliation with either Griz or Byrd; I am just a simple hobbyist that is making an informed statement. The proof should come from the person making the counter-claim (that byrd is way better and quieter). :rolleyes: After all, he knows more than the owner of Grizzly.

I also thought I would mention that the cut quality is not noticeably better (byrd vs. griz). :eek:. Therefore, buy whatever fits your budget.

Mike Cruz

11-12-2009, 3:38 PM

Philip, do you have the Grizzly one that is about the same price as the Byrd, or the one that is almost twice as expensive?

Glen Gunderson

11-12-2009, 4:06 PM

Philip, do you have the Grizzly one that is about the same price as the Byrd, or the one that is almost twice as expensive?

Huh? I see 3 options on Grizzly's site and they're all nearly the same price. Here are the prices in the 15" length:

Grizzly H7655: $495

Grizzly T10128: $549

Byrd H7768: $549

Mike Cruz

11-12-2009, 4:49 PM

The T10128 is USUALLY $795. It is just on sale right now. The first time I have seen it on sale for the same price as the Byrd. The "sale" price is not Grizzly's usuall price. So, I would say that if you weren't catching a sale, and were paying regular prices (no SA remarks about "why would you pay regular prices") there is one Grizzly that is about the same price as the Byrd and one that is almost twice the price of the Byrd. With THIS sale, none truely have a price advantage over the others (except for $50 and I don't think that is enough to sway me when I am already spending $500).

Got it?

So, Phil, maybe I should have been more clear. Do you have the T10128 or the H7655?