Steam heat for garage workshop?

[Jason White]

Anybody here have a 1-pipe steam heating system in their house and found a way to also heat the workshop with it? I have a one-car attached garage and there's not much room for a big ol' cast-iron radiator.

I've heard that Modine makes ceiling-mounted garage heaters that work with steam, but the ones I've found are rated for 2 PSIG. My steam boiller's pressuretrol is set for 1/2 PSIG. Would the Modine still work? Also, would the whole thing have to be piped with black steel pipe? Or is there a flexible piping option?

Here's the unit to which I'm referring...

http://www.ultimategarageheater.com/hot-water-garage-heater/index.php

Thanks.

Jason

[Joe Mioux]

at work, I have my garage set up with a hot water heat exchanger.

the steam version would be similar.

it works very well

[Jeff Nicol]

It would most likely work, but depending on the distance from the boiler the condensation of the steam may lose it oomfh! I have never seen a steam boiler in a house before in 25 years as a heating/AC guy but there is always a first! I have a boiler in my house and it is hot water and not steam. It is a one pipe system and by the time it gets to the upstairs and back to the boiler the temp is pretty cool compared to the output side. Anyway I think it would work with well insulated pipes and and make sure all the traps and vents are working to maintain a good return flow. I had a little one hooked up in a small room in our old basement and it did the job until I put in the wood stove! Now the basement is toasty and dry and the kitchen floor is warm and wonderful in the morning! Our house was built originally in 1888 and has been added onto a few times and needs a new boiler and get rid of the old radiators and go to fin tubes or some radiant floor heat on the main floor. The only thing is money and time to get it done, so I went with the wood for now. It saves us about $130-$160 a month in heating costs during the winter, that is if my wife keeps the fire going while I am out in the workshop, and she does as she loves the heat!

Good luck,

Jeff

[Myk Rian]

After working with steam boilers for 35 yrs, I would not recommend it, unless you have a good knowledge of working with the piping, and condensate traps.
I think Joe has the best idea. No muss, no fuss.
If you already have steam heat in the house, (it sounds like you might) you would need to calculate the load and supply specs of the new system and present boiler.

[jim sauterer]

jason is it possible to get gas in your shop.i installed mr.heater infrared gas heater in my shop.my shop is insulated but it works really well.just my 2 cents jim.

[Jason White]

If I could, I would.


jason is it possible to get gas in your shop.i installed mr.heater infrared gas heater in my shop.my shop is insulated but it works really well.just my 2 cents jim.

[Jason White]

The boiler is already oversized, so the connected load wouldn't be an issue.

JW




After working with steam boilers for 35 yrs, I would not recommend it, unless you have a good knowledge of working with the piping, and condensate traps.
I think Joe has the best idea. No muss, no fuss.
If you already have steam heat in the house, (it sounds like you might) you would need to calculate the load and supply specs of the new system and present boiler.

[William Schmitz]

The pressure is not an issue, in fact 1/2 psi steam is faster. The problem is the piping, which is not trivial. The condensate needs to be able to get back to the boiler in the same pipe that the steam is using to get out to the radiator.

How far is it to the nearest steam main?

[Joe Mioux]

I don't want to hi jack this thread, but I have a question with steam heat vs hot water.

given efficiencies of new boilers and the way hot water is transferred, why would steam still be used in new construction?

I love hot water heat, most of my boiler water gets heated to 140 and returns at 120, .... all this talk about condensation got be thinking and wanting to ask these questions.

the only problem I have with a heat exchanger is that it can blow out cold air at first, but after a few seconds/minute its warm air.

joe

[Peter Quinn]

given efficiencies of new boilers and the way hot water is transferred, why would steam still be used in new construction?
joe

I'm not an expert on heat, but I have an old house with an old hot water system, and have lived in old houses most of my life. And grandpa was a plumber whose speciality was fitting steam pipes in industrial buildings, until the industry went away.

Anyway, its my understanding from my research that pretty much as soon as they were able to reliably pump hot water to multi level homes, steam went away as a residential heating source. Hot water is far more pleasant to live with and perhaps a bit more reliable in terms of older systems? I haven't heard of anyone using steam in new construction in my life time in my part of the country, at least in single family residential work.

[Jason White]

About 20 feet away. I could definitely get good pitch, since the garage is up higher than the mains. The problem is cutting and threading black pipe is expensive.

Jason


The pressure is not an issue, in fact 1/2 psi steam is faster. The problem is the piping, which is not trivial. The condensate needs to be able to get back to the boiler in the same pipe that the steam is using to get out to the radiator. I imagine the Modine must have a tapping on it someplace for an air-vent??

How far is it to the nearest steam main?

[Jason White]

Steam is not used in new construction.

My house was built in 1939.

Jason


I don't want to hi jack this thread, but I have a question with steam heat vs hot water.

given efficiencies of new boilers and the way hot water is transferred, why would steam still be used in new construction?

I love hot water heat, most of my boiler water gets heated to 140 and returns at 120, .... all this talk about condensation got be thinking and wanting to ask these questions.

the only problem I have with a heat exchanger is that it can blow out cold air at first, but after a few seconds/minute its warm air.

joe

[William Schmitz]

If you really want to get into this, I suggest you check out Dan Holohans site www.heatinghelp.com (http://www.heatinghelp.com) and order his book on steam heat "The Lost Art of Steam Heating". Other than pitch, the other big consideration is the size of the pipes which will depend on their length and load in BTU.

For the steam to go out to the unit heater it has to push the air out ahead of it to the air vent on the radiator, while the condensate flows backwards to the steam main. This is for one pipe steam.

[William Schmitz]

I noticed from the installation literature that the unit heater must be installed for two pipe steam. This greatly complicates things since you have one pipe, although it can be done.

[Jason White]

Have the book. Love the site!

JW


If you really want to get into this, I suggest you check out Dan Holohans site www.heatinghelp.com (http://www.heatinghelp.com) and order his book on steam heat "The Lost Art of Steam Heating". Other than pitch, the other big consideration is the size of the pipes which will depend on their length and load in BTU.

For the steam to go out to the unit heater it has to push the air out ahead of it to the air vent on the radiator, while the condensate flows backwards to the steam main. This is for one pipe steam.

[Jason White]

Did not notice that. Good catch!

JW


I noticed from the installation literature that the unit heater must be installed for two pipe steam. This greatly complicates things since you have one pipe, although it can be done.

[Tom Godley]

Houses with properly designed steam systems are very comfortable - They look simple but a lot of science is going on.

You would need to make sure you get the proper radiator for the application and that it was properly installed. You do not want to affect any of the other zones.

One concern I would have would be with the potential for increased humidity.

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Jason,
Even if you wanted to run pipe to the garage and even if you could install it yourself, given the cost of a Modine ceiling mounted heater, you would probably be better off installing a ventless propane heater. This summer I discovered a small leak in the fuel tank that stores oil for my workshop. My oil dealer suggested we install a propane heater and a 100 gallon tank. The entire installation cost less than a new 275 gallon oil tank. It's not very cold yet but the heater seems to work well with no odor and the specs tell me the fuel cost will be a bit less than oil.
fmr

[Jason White]

I'm actually leaning toward a pellet stove. Just wanted to see if anybody here had actual experience with the Modine using steam.

JW




Jason,
Even if you wanted to run pipe to the garage and even if you could install it yourself, given the cost of a Modine ceiling mounted heater, you would probably be better off installing a ventless propane heater. This summer I discovered a small leak in the fuel tank that stores oil for my workshop. My oil dealer suggested we install a propane heater and a 100 gallon tank. The entire installation cost less than a new 275 gallon oil tank. It's not very cold yet but the heater seems to work well with no odor and the specs tell me the fuel cost will be a bit less than oil.
fmr

[Howard Acheson]

My concern would be the probably rise is relative humidity with a one pipe steam system. A rise in RH could cause warping problems with your wood.

[Jason White]

Steam heating systems do not add more humidity to the air.

No steam actually escapes from the radiators, only the air ahead of it. When the steam pushes all the air out of the pipes and radiators, it hits an alcohol-filled bellow inside the radiator's "air-vent," causing the vent to close and trapping the steam inside the radiator.

I've had steam for years and can tell you it is a wonderful, comfortable, dry type of heat.

Jason


My concern would be the probably rise is relative humidity with a one pipe steam system. A rise in RH could cause warping problems with your wood.