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Steve Clarkson
11-07-2009, 1:01 PM
I have a local gun dealer that wants me to engrave an M1 Carbine (WW2?) but he wants ME to come up with the idea of what to engrave on it. He wants whatever it is to add value to the gun and be generic enough that it will appeal to wide audience. He felt that it should be an animal or military related. I think it should be some type of commemorative thing. He really doesn't want a pattern (ie. checkering, scroll type designs). I also think it should be regional to some extent.....ie. Statue of Liberty if it was NYC, Golden Gate Bridge for SF, poker chips for Vegas, etc.

Anyone have any good ideas?

Lee DeRaud
11-07-2009, 2:35 PM
Not sure how that's going to "add value". If it's a "shooter" and the buyer actually cares what the stock looks like, he'll replace it with something personalized.
(We're not talking fine woodwork here: the originals are kind of homely IMHO.)

OTOH, if it's a matching-numbers collectable, he shouldn't be screwing with it.

Dan Hintz
11-07-2009, 4:23 PM
Yeah, I'm not sure how anything you come up with is going to add value. Usually value is added on a personal level, meaning the owner determines (or at least okays) what is engraved. Sorry, but I can't suggest anything.

Guy Mathews
11-07-2009, 5:08 PM
Steve,

I am currently working with a local gun dealer in my area to make custom replacement stocks for Winchester Rifles. One of the things that he mentioned to me is that when a gun has the original stock modified in any way, it actually will lessen the value of the gun to a collector in the grand scheme of things. In other words, 50 years from now, the M1 with the original stock, will be worth more then the one that has been modified or personalized.

What we are doing on our end, is actually offering the gun with a custom made stock and the owner keeps the original as well. The value added is that the custom stock can be replaced by the original to bring the value back to the gun. This is especially true when it comes to adding length to a stock.

You may want to suggest that he do something similar. Find a generic stock for the M1 and offer it as a package deal. Drive the point home that by not altering the original stocks it is allowing the customers the ability to protect their investments in the guns they buy while also allowing them to personalize them however they see fit.

Guy

Steve Clarkson
11-07-2009, 6:17 PM
Let's assume I just put an army logo or a Marine Corp logo on it......are you saying that some vet wouldn't pay more for that one than a plain one sitting next to it?

Deane Shepard
11-07-2009, 6:40 PM
Steve - I think an Army or Marine Corps symbol would likely lessen the value simply on the basis that the one you choose limits the pool of potential buyers. A Marine vet is probably less likely to buy it if you put an Army emblem on it. An Army vet is probably not attracted to the Globe and Anchor.

I know I have walked away from purchasing used guns because of some personalization or modification made by a previous owner that I knew I would immediately want removed or replaced (at additional cost).

What you might suggest is to provide half a dozen designs that you would be willing to do for the amount the dealer is going to pay you, such as a US Flag, branch of service emblem, and a deer. He can sell the gun with a gift certificate that allows the purchaser to come to you to have any of the six designs engraved or to apply an equivalent amount to a custom or other design. That puts some potential value add into it if the buyer wants the stock engraved. It gets you paid for the gift certificate now and it potentially brings you in contact with another customer that might have other things he or she might like to have done.

Deane Shepard
ULS M360

Guy Mathews
11-07-2009, 7:11 PM
Let's assume I just put an army logo or a Marine Corp logo on it......are you saying that some vet wouldn't pay more for that one than a plain one sitting next to it?

Being a Vet of the first Gulf War and a guy that appreciates the value of things what I am saying is that a gun with an original unaltered stock has more value to a collector then one that has been modified. The exception to this rule would be a custom made object that is used by someone of historical significance, ie, General Patton, Mel Ott, Dale Earnhardt... that can be resold with COA.

A gun stock or any other item that has been altered can be sold and I have no doubt that someone will buy these, however, it is more profitable to market something that is going to retain or increase in value. Once you alter the original, the value starts to decline. The gun dealer may be able to add 30 bucks to the sale of the gun, but he will depreciate the value in the long run. Since guns historically retain and gain value if well cared for, I feel that a better option is offer the gun with the original stock and a customized one to boot.

I actually find it hard to believe that the fellow that approached you would even consider doing something like this to an original stock. You may want to register over at firearmstalk.com and post this question. Serious gun folks over there!

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f18/universal-m1-carbine-19682/

I would also add that Deane has an excellent idea with the gift certificate thing. You get paid and the potentiel to get new customers comes with the gift certificate as they are now bringing the gun to you instead of the gun dealer.

Like your apple statement in your signature. "If gun dealer is a customer of yours, and he sends you a customer you now have 2 customers!

Bill Cunningham
11-07-2009, 10:40 PM
One thing to keep in mind when doing gunstocks Steve, is 'line art' works on all, but photos/grayscale do not work on dark wood stocks.. I've had customers ask me to put good ole uncle Johns photo on his old gun stock as a memorial, but if the stock is walnut (dark) it will look like crap.. The wood for photos must be blond or light enough to have good contrast..

Bob Smalser
11-07-2009, 10:59 PM
I'd buy a replacement stock in new walnut and engrave that. You'll likely find one that hasn't been saturated with linseed oil, cosmoline and dirt produces better results anyway. Plus you can control the final color.

Perhaps Boyds has a select blank they can mill a finer stock from on their duplicators. Wenig certainly will. You may have to be capable of final fitting with either, although I believe Wenig will fit the stock on request.

http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/M1-Carbine-Stock-p/300-087.htm

http://www.wenig.com/

http://www.thecollectorsource.com/product/CAROVBIR

Either way, under no circumstances alter an original US-issued stock with inspectors marks and cartouche. Such is considered destruction of an original piece of history, besides ruining the firearm's value. Many of these carbines served a second life with an overseas ally however, and altering an unmarked European or Korean-made replacement stock isn't quite the same sin.

In the absence of a specific event associated with the carbine itself, I suggest engraving the owner's Service, Unit Insignia, and record of service on the stock. Like on this war trophy done as a gift in Korea, only more elaborate.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2080858/364997884.jpg

Walt Nicholson
11-07-2009, 11:08 PM
I agree with Guy, Don't touch the original but do a "spare" so a collecter won't have the value compromised. American flags and Bald Eagles or a combination of both are always popular (lots of art available for both) and will give a prospective buyer an idea of what can be done. Be sure and post pictures when you're done.

Steve Clarkson
11-08-2009, 7:39 AM
OK, I made a huge mistake and now I think I understand why I'm getting the responses that I'm getting.

The gun is brand new.....it's an unfinished gunstock for an M1 Carbine BASED UPON what was used in WW2.....it's NOT an actual gun built back in the 1940's and USED during WW2. He could get me 2, 20 or 200 of these if I wanted them.

Sorry about that!!!

Now, does that small tidbit of information change any of your responses?

Dan Hintz
11-08-2009, 8:04 AM
The gun is brand new...
<smack forehead>

I like the idea of choosing a handful of logos and let the final purchaser choose. Maybe you could etch all of the logos on a piece of wood so the seller can show the potential buyer what it would look like.

Mike Null
11-08-2009, 8:26 AM
If your customer wants an engraving on the stock--fine. But I would not believe that engraving anything enhances its value. (I do engraving for a living)

In many instances engraving does nothing at all for the item; even to the extent that it makes it less salable.

But you still have to make a living so why not make up a few samples of what you can do on blanks of wood and let your customer select from those.

Bob Smalser
11-08-2009, 10:25 AM
Engrave away.

If the dealer wants to hang this carbine in the wall to help sell more guns, then I think individual service records are still the way to go. The vet sees it, likes the idea of it, and suggests to Mama that'd be a nice gift. And you get to do the engraving.

Lee DeRaud
11-08-2009, 11:03 AM
The gun is brand new.....it's an unfinished gunstock for an M1 Carbine BASED UPON what was used in WW2.....it's NOT an actual gun built back in the 1940's and USED during WW2. He could get me 2, 20 or 200 of these if I wanted them.Ah. Then, as Bob said, go for it.

Guess there really is a market for anything...