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mickey cassiba
11-07-2009, 12:06 AM
How about the new format?

Chris Rosenberger
11-07-2009, 7:50 AM
I liked the old way. They raced all year & the driver with the most points was the champ. The NHRA is doing the same type of thing now, only it is worse than NASCAR. In the Funny Car class of NHRA the 10th place driver moved from 10th to 1st after just 2 races. I have been a fan of both since the early 70s. Now I do not watch either much anymore.

mickey cassiba
11-07-2009, 8:36 AM
me too, Chris. I do, however find myself at the local 1/4 mile tracks, dirt & drag, a lot more these days.

scott spencer
11-07-2009, 4:43 PM
I don't mind the new format, but I don't like that so many races aren't televised on the main channels. I'm also afraid that if they keep bringing in names I can't pronounce, that NASCAR will fade into oblivion unnoticed.

Ed Hazel
11-07-2009, 5:48 PM
I do not have a problem with the new format.
I sure would like to see more equality in the teams really tired of watching the same few drivers win most of the races.

I do not like the new car.

I am also surprised at how many vacant seats there are.

Steve Southwood
11-07-2009, 6:01 PM
Nascar has shot it's self in the foot. Dega' was a joke, new format is a joke, new car is a joke. Give the drivers a car they can drive and let them drive. Let them beat and bang. They are going to let it get to where there are only a few teams. Easier to make just a few owners happy than a bunch. Should be a 2 car team limit. I could go on and on. Nascar is just not the same as it was. Bring Tim Richmond and Dale back from the grave.

Bill Arnold
11-07-2009, 6:45 PM
Say what you will about the format, car, or anything else. Everyone operates under the same rules. There seems to be such an uproar this year because Jimmy is on the verge of making history. No matter - everyone is running under the same rules that reward consistency.

Example: Kyle Busch won a lot of races, but shot himself in the foot on too many occasions. Rather than drive the car he had on a given day, he ran the wheels off of it then crashed and burned. Jimmy made the Chase because of consistency.

I could cite other examples like Tony and Mark, but the bottom line is and should be consistency. Early in his career, Jimmy would be running well, then shoot himself in the foot and do something stupid. He got his head on straight, the team stayed behind him and now the TEAM is reaping the rewards of their efforts. ;)

Ed Hazel
11-07-2009, 7:07 PM
If Jimmy wins the championship fine they earned it.

The problem from my point of view is the racing just seems less exciting then in the past. Couple that with the same teams winning most every race = boring.

Ted Shrader
11-08-2009, 9:53 AM
I like the double file restart. It has the flavor of a Saturday night at the local track.

The new car is horrible. Bring back something they can drive. Some of the safety features are good, but the body is too tall and boxy. And get the restricter plates opened up larger than a pinhole.

Bump drafting is good. Let the drivers police themselves - that always worked in the past. The fans like it too.

Speaking of fans, have you noticed the stands lately? When was the last sell out?

Three car per team limit. More variety in the field that way.

The scoring needs to be tweaked some more. If the chase has to stay, let the top twenty drivers compete in the last four races. That would be more like a playoff than the two separate seasons it is now.

Ted

mickey cassiba
11-08-2009, 11:20 AM
Say what you will about the format, car, or anything else. Everyone operates under the same rules. There seems to be such an uproar this year because Jimmy is on the verge of making history. No matter - everyone is running under the same rules that reward consistency.

Example: Kyle Busch won a lot of races, but shot himself in the foot on too many occasions. Rather than drive the car he had on a given day, he ran the wheels off of it then crashed and burned. Jimmy made the Chase because of consistency.

I could cite other examples like Tony and Mark, but the bottom line is and should be consistency. Early in his career, Jimmy would be running well, then shoot himself in the foot and do something stupid. He got his head on straight, the team stayed behind him and now the TEAM is reaping the rewards of their efforts. ;)
Consistency is a key I agree. I'm afraid though, that in the years to come, we will witness a champion who did not win one race, just managed a top five every week with no DNFs.
I've followed stock car racing all of my life, and am dismayed at the limits placed upon the owners, builders and drivers. I'm afraid that NASCAR has devolved into a 43 car IROC race. When the king brought a SuperB to the track, it didn't fit any template. And a quick look under the hood of any of the seventies era cars would have revealed a lot of ingenious modifications, which would now be banned under the ambiguous rule of "detrimental to the sport" .
As for JJ winning a fourth consecutive cup, more power to him. He's a fine racer and has figured out the system. My main complaint is that there is way too much system now. I'm not at all sure that the pre-race driver's meeting is not just to inform all involved who this weeks winner will be.
All that said, I still watch the races. Getting all the weekend chores finished in time for the green flag. (Icin' down the beer, buildin' a nacho that would make my doctor faint, and kickin' the dog outa my recliner.
Mickey(fan since my dad took me to my first race in '65)

Josh Reet
11-08-2009, 1:13 PM
Don't mind the chase. Too many people forget that the championship race was over way before the end of the season FAR too often in the old system. I'd rather have a bit more excitement if we are going to make a big deal of being a champion. I do think they need to put more focus on winning and less on consistency once they get to the chase.

New car has been a mixed bag. I like how it seems tougher, particularly in the side panels. I don't mind the looks, but I do wish you could point at one and say that's a ford that's a toyota. They all look the damn same. However, if the Natiowide COT is any indication, we are going to see a difference there in the near future. I don't think it has done much for the racing however. I don't like reliance on bump stops or "crabwalking" cars.I do think that it is saving the teams money, so that's good in some ways.

No testing has been a bad idea, particularly for rookies. Too many 1.5 mile boring tracks are also a bad idea. Bring back more small tracks or build more of them in a new market.

NASCAR has missed the boat on "new media" ways to interact with the sport. The internet race coverage of the IRL kills NASCAR. Turner gives us racebuddy for 6 great weeks, but then "goodbye". Sirius can't broadcast it's nascar channel on the internet. Too many things in NASCAR are all owned by the same france-family connected companies. TV guys get threats whenever they say critical things about the sport, access is restricted when reporters step out of line, etc.

I'm a fan and will still be a fan. But for the first time in years, catching the Seahawks game has become more important then watching the last races of the season.

Paul Ryan
11-08-2009, 4:49 PM
I could ramble for hours on the problems with nascar. I have been a fan for over 20 years, have been to multiple races. I have watched a total of 5 races the past 2 seasons. Nascar is a Joke now. Those of you that think, they all drive the same cars, that have the same rules, yada, yada, yada. It is clear you really don't know that much about nascar. They all don't operate under the same rules. Why do you think Hendrick is so dominante? MONEY, MONEY, and more MONEY. Nascar got to greedy and let Toyota in. What that caused was the budgets to skyrocket and wreck the sport. It is a complete Joke now. In the last 30 years you haven't had domance from one team like you do now. 30 years ago it was who had the most money, and who could cheat the best. Now it is just who has the most money. Nascar needs big, big change to win me back. Dale Sr. would have never allowed nascar to get like this.

Bill Arnold
11-08-2009, 4:59 PM
... It is clear you really don't know that much about nascar. ...
Isn't it rather arrogant of you to say something like that? What are your credentials to allow you to speak so authoritatively? :confused:

Brian Elfert
11-08-2009, 7:04 PM
The main reason for such strict rules on cars is for parity. How would the racing be if one driver ran away with it because he had 25 more HP than the other guy?

In the early days, the guy who was still racing last year's car had a distinct disadvantage versus the guys with the newest current year cars. Early on at Daytona or Dega a driver with an underpowered car discovered drafting and won the race.

Yes, the Dega race sucked since no one could pass.

Paul Ryan
11-08-2009, 7:35 PM
Bill,

I agree it is rather arrogent of me to make such a claim. The reason is because I have followed Nascar closely for at least 20 years. I have seen the good days and bad days. I have been a fan before nascar became the behemith it is today. I really makes me sad as to what it has become. IMHO the casual race fan sees the rules and believes, "well they all have to operate under the same rules." So that should be it. It has become some ridgid as to what can be done with the cars, what can be done with the engine, the suspension, even the rear end gear. So what does that leave you. A IROC race, it should be the driver, and team right. Not so fast. Money, money buys you better employees, materials, R&D. It is really sad that you can basically write off 33 cars every week as to who has a chance of winning. I am not a Roush Racing fan by any means. But the day Jack Roush had to sell basically 1/2 his team to finace what was needed in the comming years, that was the end of nascar for me. A motor sport that has such rich history as nascar, and to see it turn into basically MLB, and get away from its roots, it is sad. I have no credentials except 20+ years as a diehard fan. I was at Daytona in 2001 when Dale Sr. died, that was one of the sadest days of my life. And another reason nascar is such a mess right now.

Bill Arnold
11-08-2009, 7:35 PM
... Yes, the Dega race sucked since no one could pass.
And the first 'Dega race sucked just about as much. Drivers like Richard Petty went home rather than race on tires that couldn't handle the speed of the new track. Bill France didn't bow down to him, but had plenty of other drivers willing to drive 'Dega.

Speaking of Richard Petty and the rules. Would anyone suggest an asterisk by his 200 wins? Nope. But he was running most, if not all, of the races any day of the week while other big name drivers would race only on weekends.

Change is inevitable in anything. Baseball, football and basketball were truly TEAM sports in the day. Now, they've become an assemblage of individual performers who might get their act together on occasion. At least NASCAR is still a team sport in that any single person on the team can affect the outcome of a race result. It's not just the driver who makes things happen.

...(don't get me started on Kyle Busch!) :eek:

mike holden
11-09-2009, 9:13 AM
Mickey,
The new format does not add to any excitement or interest.

It is a season! Best overall is the best for the season!

So now what, you coast for 30 races then race? Phooey!

BTW, does anyone publicly keep the season long score, that is the scoring based on all finishes, ignoring the "chase"?

Mike

Josh Reet
11-09-2009, 6:40 PM
Mickey,
The new format does not add to any excitement or interest.

It is a season! Best overall is the best for the season!

So now what, you coast for 30 races then race? Phooey!

Eh, that's an oversimplification. The chase isn't like college basketball or the NHL where virtually every major team gets in the playoffs. Ask David Reutimann about "coasting" all season. That guy drove hard all season and had pretty much just one bad luck race where someone else took him out ruin his chances of making the chase. Or ask Dale Jr, the guy has the best cars and the best equipment out there and can't get into the chase. It's not as easy as it looks.


BTW, does anyone publicly keep the season long score, that is the scoring based on all finishes, ignoring the "chase"?

Mike

Jayski was doing that for a while. I'm pretty sure he still does. But the problem with that is it just proves what the chase already proves, the biggest best funded teams win. Instead of Jimmy having championships, Jeff Gordon would have a few more on the shelf. Plus, you can't directly compare old and new because guys race differently based on what rules are in place at the time.

Found the jayski "old points system" link:

http://www.jayski.com/teams/chase2009.htm#classic

Josh Reet
11-09-2009, 6:51 PM
I was at Daytona in 2001 when Dale Sr. died, that was one of the sadest days of my life. And another reason nascar is such a mess right now.

Yeah, damn those safety improvements that Senior's untimely death forced into the sport. HANS device, you have ruined everything! SAFER barriers, I send you to hell!

Seriously, Dale Sr, as important as he was, you can't sit here and say that things would be somehow all perfect if he was still here. NASCAR was, and is, bigger than senior. The France family, for better or worse, made damn sure of that with the way they structured the sport. Add on top of that the new era of the 24 hour news cycle that we live in. Senior never had constant cameras and news and twitter and facebook all waiting to report his every step. He never had sponsors that insisted he act a specific way or they would take their cash somewhere else. His time was a LOT different than the time NASCAR is in now. The France family/ISCownership structure of the sport, lack of a drivers/owners union, and the change in the media setup and delivery has changed the sport more than anything. And as great as he was on the track and as fiery and lovable as he was as a personality, Senior couldn't have prevented any of that.

The day he died was awful for the sport and I'm not going to ever say that things (aside from safety issues) wouldn't be better with him alive, even if everything else was the same. but the problems with NASCAR were (and are) bigger than any one driver, owner, or personality.

Paul Ryan
11-09-2009, 10:41 PM
Josh,

I agree with you completly that the safety advaces that the drivers and tracks are a direct result of his death. Adam Petty and Tony Roper's deaths would not have casused the push for the hans device, safer barriers, and COT. So as unfortunate as it was some good did come from his death. However senior had been against many things that nascar allowed to happen starting shortly after his death. The biggest of those has been the loss of races at nascars historic tracks. Rockingham and Darlington are just the lates tracks to loose races due to nascars greed. Now you have 2 races a year that still don't sell out. These are some of the things that senior would have prevented. What I think you are forgetting is that right now nascar does not have a respected legend with the vetran leadership that senior would have involved into the sport. Right away Richard Petty comes to mind. His accomplishments can not be matched, but his leadership to the lawmakers of the sport is not respected. I think this maybe becauase of the lack of success his team had. Evernham motorssports was one of the big players of nascar at the time of his death. It had slowly declinded due to his death. To what is is today combined with other teams. It is really sad that how greed has changed nascar to what it is today.