Help with sanding

[Jim Guy]

Almost everything I built is Shaker or Mission. In other words its flat and stright. I have this procedure I go through when sanding and I'm NOT certain its the best way. Most common woods are oak, cherry, and walnut.
I have a Jet 6 x 48 belt sander which I will use with an 80 grit belt. If the piece is to large I will use 80 grit on a PC 3 x 21 hand held belt sander.
(Some of the better wood I skip the 80.)
The next step is with the PC belt sander and 100 grit paper. I then lightly hand sand using 120, then 180 and lastly 240. I give the piece a good blast of air between each grid.

I have a cheap ROS but it's not much force. (I've been thinking of spending some money here too.)

I almost always use shellac as the first coat of finish, even if I'm going to use stain. (On the oak only.)

The question is, does this sound reasonable to you? I'm not unhappy with the finish I'm getting, but on some larger pieces, that's a whole lot of sanding.

I'm willing to spend some money on a drum sander but have heard that they are mostly used for 100 grid down, the finer grids not working so well.

If I'm doing it right I can live with it. I just keep thinking there's got to be an easier way. I'm way out in the country and have almost no contact with other woodworkers so I'm looking for any advice any of you may have.

Thanks in advance,
Jim Guy

[Michael Ballent]

If you are a full time WW then you may be able to get a wide belt sander, provided that you have the space and big enough compressor to run it. You should be able to sand to 220 without much problem, but you may need to hit it with ROS to get rid of cross grain scratches. The down side is that wide belt sanders are VERY expensive, since pros are the only ones that really get them and they can save a lot of time.

[Pete Lamberty]

Hi Jim, I can't say that I like sanding any better than you do. This is what I usually do. Maybe you can try it. First off I am a hobbiest woodworker so time is not part of the equation. Instead of sanding I will use a hand plane and hand scrapers. I said that I don't like sanding but I do like useing a plane and a scraper. Also all of the wood gets scrapped and planed before assembly. That way I may only need a little touch up at the end. Since I am not one of the great ones at using the hand tools, I usually use sand paper to help get the finish to where I want it. Hope this helps a little. Pete

[Dennis Peacock]

Howdy Jim,

I for one rarely ever use a belt sander of any kind. One wood that is hard to plane smooth (read jointer and planer) I just get it close and then run it through my Performax 16-32 drum sander with 100 Grit on the drum. You are correct in the sense that sanding with a drum sander over 180 grit. Drum sanding with anything over 180 grit requires light passes and is only for surface refinement and not really sanding as in defect removal.

I never start any sanding with 80 grit. I usually start at 120 grit, then 180 and then 220 and sometimes on up to 320 or 400 grit depending on what I'm working on. The LOML's kitchen table is only sanded through 180 grit (oak table) and I found that I you sand up to a too fine of a grit, the stain doesn't like sticking to the wood very well and doesn't provide the color variance that I was looking for. I backed down from 220 to 180 and voila....I got the color I was looking for.

Most of my sanding is done with a pair of "good quality" ROS's and if any touch-up is needed after that, I use a sanding block and whatever final grit I stopped with on the ROS.

Just courious why you are belt sanding with 80 grit, then belt sand with 100 and then proceed from there.? :confused:

Sanding techniques are as varied as how to build a piece of furniture or how to accomplish a given task. The best thing to do is "experiment" with different ways of doing what needs to be done. When time is not pushing you to get something done....try things out on scrap out of the scrap bin...and that means all the way up to finishing the scrap piece with you stain and clear coat of choice. This way you get to refine your skills, build more skills, obtain more knowledge of what you can and can not do and allow you to build a method of work that will allow you to get done what you need to get done is a decent amount of time with less effort than before.

Remeber, finishing is what brings out the "art work" of each piece you make. :D

Just my 2¢ worth on this subject.

[Donnie Raines]

Sounds like a lot of sanding to me. I normally go up to 180...sometimes 220 depending on the type of finish I will be useing. I will use the random orbit sander...or smoothing planes/scrapers...to flush everything up. I will come back over that with 180 by hand to make everything nice and smooth. And wide belt sander/or drum sander would be a nice addition. Drum sanders are slow...so I would not look to speed the process up to much.

By the way...since you are a Shaker kind of guy...let me know if you ever wish to try some really nice curly maple. I am a Shaker guy to....simply clean lines....its a wonderful thing.

[Jim Guy]

Thanks for the input -
Dennis - My 15in planer will leave a few what I call dings if the oak is QS. Otherwise I never use 80 Grid. Do you think the Performax 16-32 drum sander should be something I would use in a case like this. (Just give me a little push.)

Donnie - Yes I would be interested in some curly maple. I just noticed your about 30 minutes from me. I'm just outside Bethel.

[Donnie Raines]

Jim,

The Perfromax is a nice sander....it would be a nice addition to your shop. There are some things that you can do to reduce tear out, chipping and "others".....click the link below for some tips.

http://www.curlymaple.com/working.shtml

[Gary Max]

Buying a Great ROS will help you in final stages of the project. I just bought a Festool 150/3 and have been very happy with it. Most of the items we build--- there is more time spent on sanding and finishing than on building. Having the right tools makes it easier on the back but it still takes alot of time.

[Chris Padilla]

Jim,

We gush and gush and gush about the Festool vacuum and sander combinations...they are truly as wonderful as we say they are. You'll be shocked twice: once for the cost and second as to how beautifully the Festool vacuum/sanders perform. You may actually like sanding all over again. No foolin'. :)

[Steve Jenkins]

I never sand oak past 150. Because of the grain you just can't see 150 scratch pattern if you are sanding with the grain and as already mentioned if you go too fine it will mess up the staining. Normally I start with 150 then go finer except on oak. If I seem to be sanding a lot with the 150 to get out defects then I will go one step coarser. Steve

[Gary Max]

Hey Chris ---------you are Gushing again

[Dennis Peacock]

Jim,

As with many hobbiest model drum sanders.....they ain't made to be fast...but the way I look at it? If I had to sand all those boards down with a ROS, I would be worn out, I don't have that many hours in a day to do that kind of sanding and with the 16-32.....I may spend 1 to 2 hours feeding it boards, but IT does all the tough work!!! ;) :D One thing to consider before you jump off the deep end on a drum sander.....You MUST have VERY Good Dust Collection or you will spend a ton of money on sandpaper for the drum sander. You'll need at least 400CFM at the tool and more CFM if you can get it. I have one, I use it and I'm glad I have it. Twisting your arm yet? ;) :p

[Alan Turner]

JIm
I have an older 36" drum sander, but I bet I don't turn it on once a month, if that. I use it primarily on self cut veneers.
I am a hand plane and scraper guy. Wander over to the neander side and post this question, and you will get a bit of guidance from those folks.
I have a variety of planes, and I find that there are very few woods that will not hand plane quite well, without tearout, including curly maple. For that I use an HNT Gordon, an Australian woodie, with a very steep bedding angle, and tight mouth, and can plane curly maple from either direction. It is much faster (and neater) than sanding. Just do all of your surfaces before final assembly. A bit of touch up and you are done.
Alan

[Jim Guy]

Dennis,
You said
"You'll need at least 400CFM at the tool and more CFM if you can get it."

I have a delta 1.5 hp system that claims to have 1200 CFM. It works well for everything except the planer which is about 25 ft from the unit. I have to really keep my eye on it for walnut for some reason. I would however be placing the drum sander within about 5 to 8 ft of the dust collection unit. Am I reading the delta web site correctly? Would a 1.5 hp unit really have 1200 CFM?
Thanks,
Jim