Blown in insulation in walls

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Folks.....I'd like an opinion about using blown in insulation in the walls of my new shop. I'm unable to get a real good deal on fiberglass bats and am considering using blown insulation in the walls. Anybody have any good or bad experiences with same?

Thanks for your input!

[Tyler Howell]

What Kind????
Fiber Glass?
Cellulose (sp)?
Other?
Been there done that bought that t shirt.
Blown in will settle, and going in the walls after the fact (wiring, plumming) is no fun.
Reasonably priced. Can fill every little hole and void.
Good R rating.

[Jamie Buxton]

Around here, "blown-in" insulation and "blown" insulation mean two different things.

"Blown-in" is generally a retrofit operation. The sheetrock is already installed, and the insulating material is blown in by a truck-mounted machine that looks kinda like a reversed vacuum cleaner. It can be done by a DIYer. Blown-in insulation has a reputation for settling, but sometimes it is the only available option.

"Blown" is new construction -- that is, before the sheetrock goes on. The insulating material is mixed with something which will make it stay in place. In the case of cellulose, the something is water; the cellulose is just damp enough to stick in the stud bays long enough for the sheetrock to get installed. (There are other insulation materials, too.) Around here, this kind of insulation has a good reputation. It does a better job of filling the stud bays, and not leaving little gaps -- which can be a problem with fiberglass bats. The only trouble with blown insulation is that it takes a skilled installer -- it isn't a DIY method. But if you were going to hire the insulation done anyhow, that isn't an issue.

[Michael Stafford]

Jamie has it absolutely right about the difference between blown and blown in. I used to help my father do both. Still have the blowing machine for the blown in cellulose. I do not recall if water alone was used for the blown variety or if there was an additive also. You are welcome to borrow my blowing machine...

[Bart Leetch]

I used to work in the insulation industry where we vacuumed out cellulose because its fire retardant capacity had dissipated, it would light off with a whoosh why? its nothing more than ground up paper like product without the fire retardant.

This week end the LOML & I were shopping at manufactured home sales lots & one of the salesmen was telling me how great cellulose is & I popped the question about the life of the fire retardant on him & he stumbled all over himself but had no proof. I've read at many web sites on the internet but have still to see any proof about this issue. The only proof you should ever accept about cellulose is someone vacuuming it out after 5,10 15 & 20 years & showing you it won't light off if if won't do this don't install it in your home or shop.

I know several contractors that won't install it or if they do you have to sign a release releasing them from all responsibility if your place should catch on fire.

Remember there are contractors out there that will tell you anything to sell their services & product. Tell them prove it. In this case there is only one way to prove it. :)

[Carl Eyman]

The comments on fire proofing are important, but I'd be careful on another issue. Back in the early fifties I had a 50+ yr old house with balloon framing. I was tempted to blow or pour insulation into the walls. However, I noticed a lot of houses the same age as mine that were having difficulty keeping paint on the lower few feet of clapboards or shingles. It turned out the blown in insulation with no vapor barrier had absorbed moisture from the condensation of interior moisture and exterior/winter cold. I personally helped a neighbor rake out tons? of water soaked rock wool granules that were soaking wet. Needless to say so were the bottom few feet of his studs. Until someone shows me how this problem is addressed I'd not try it.

[Michael Stafford]

All insulation needs a vapor barrier for maximum effectiveness. That problem, wet insulation is typical of no vapor barrier. One reason for the difference between blown and blown in is that it it easier to apply a vapor barrier after installing the blown. The blown in has to be installed through seams in the vapor barrier when using it for new construction. Then the seams have to be taped to ensure continuity of the barrier. I am not aware of the flammability problem that Bart spoke of. He worked in the industry so I would assume he would know. I do remember there were problems with fire retardance and insects in the product when it first came out.

[Jim Ketron]

Ken I would use the bats I know its a lot of $$$$ but I agree with Tyler It will settle too much. I think it works great for attics and it will settle there also after a few years! But if it's the only choice like a retro as Jamie said Is the only way I would go with it. IMO

I could not believe how much it cost either! I spent about $450.00 for the walls and ceiling R-13 and another $200.00 for R-19 for the floor:eek:
Jim

[Chris Padilla]

Hmm, should I even bother with blown insulation in my garage remodel? Seems like overkill but I didn't realize batts would cost so much, either. Hmmm....

[Jeremy Bracey]

FYI, R13 is on sale at Lowes this week (small rolls are $8.85ish) Home depot's price match gaurantee takes another 10% off. On top of that, if you spend $150 on Owens Corning insulation you get a rebate ($40 or $50 bucks!)


So.... If you play it right you can save a few bucks. I did this weekend. Warning, I think the sale may end 9/31

[Jamie Buxton]

Hmm, should I even bother with blown insulation in my garage remodel? Seems like overkill but I didn't realize batts would cost so much, either. Hmmm....

Unless you're heating and cooling your shop, insulating it may not make much sense.

(Insulation has little effect on the noise escaping your shop to bother the neighbors. It will abate the noise passing through the stud bays, but the noise will still be transmitted quite well by the studs themselves.)

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Jamie....I will be heating my shop and maybe cooling it too.

[Jamie Buxton]

Jamie....I will be heating my shop and maybe cooling it too.

Ken --
Yeah, I'd imagine that'd be required where you live -- Idaho. :eek: Chris, however, lives in central California. Here, no heat or a/c in a shop is common.
Jamie

[JOHN HANCOCK]

Regarding price of batts. Your local utility company may have rebate money to help pay for insulation. Chris, here in Cal. PG & E had rebates last year but you have to get in quick because they have limited dollars for each type of equipment or material. They are out for 2004 but will likely run the program again next year. Find out when they are going to start and make it the first project after it starts. The insulation has to be installed and it has to meet certain R value to send in your receipts. I put in R13 in my attic (2X4 ceiling joists) and it wasn't enough. Don't remember the required R. I think the rebate would have paid about half. I did mine in June I think and they were just running out of money but start early.

[Gary Sutherland]

What about foam insulation? I have seen it installed by drilling holes between studs and injecting with a nozzle. The foam sets very quickly.

I don't know the details, but was told that it has a very high insulation rating, never sags and is fire retardant. Went in very quickly, fills every crack and makes very little mess.

Wish I had more information, but it might be something to ask around about.

Gary

[Jim Becker]

Unless you can afford spray on, I suggest you stick with batts. As to getting a "good deal", have you contacted local insulation contractors and drywll/insulation suppiers? You can sometimes get material less expensive than the retail stores that way. When I was in the business for a couple years back in the late 1980s, we sold material all the time...it increased our volume with the suppliers and helped lower our own material costs.

[larry merlau]

foam vs batts-- i just finished a complete addition+remodle ken and the cost of batts was 1/3 of the foam. the batts are much better than celleous blown in and you can easily do it yourself. and the foam is better yet but is costly and needs to be done by a pro. if money was'nt an issue go for the foam. there are differnt types of foam as well they are gettin it to be less of a fire hazard. so checkout he differnt types before hand if you choose that route

[Steve Stube]

I almost looked forward to buying the insulation for my shop because it was one cost I expected to recoup very quickly here in Michigan. I used R-19 fiberglass in the 2" X 6" stud spaces and 1" Dow rigid foam from the footings to the peak plus another 1" on the inside of the block foundation and under the floor. It is very pleasant working in my shop both summer and winter. I don't have A/C in the shop so I was happy when the temp. inside didn't go over 70 degrees this summer. Nope, I don't have a single regret about that purchase. BTW, insulation cost is about the same today as when I bought but fuel (NG) has gone up up up making insulation a better deal still. Ken I doubt you could spend too much on insulation.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

UNCLE!!!!!!!!!!!! I'll go with the fiberglass batts......R-19 in the walls and R-38 in the ceiling! Thanks for all the input!

[Michael Stafford]

I'm disappointed that you didn't want to borrow my blowing machine....

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Michael....my F-350 4x4 460cu inch 5-speed 4:10 rear axle .......it get's 11-12 miles to the gallon.......I could buy a machine locally and save money by not driving to your locale and borrowing your machine. :eek: :rolleyes: Thanks for the offer, however! :D

[Chris Padilla]

Ken,

Where did you find R-19 batts for walls...wait, your are 2x6 walls, right? R-13 is typical for 2x4 walls now, I think. Mr. Becker did mention to me that you can get higher for 2x4 walls.

Jamie,

I'm going to have the HVAC guys pipe a duct and return for the garage "while they are at it" for the garage. The garage door faces due West and it can get hot in my shop in the summer, even with a good new insulated garage door blocking most of the heat. So, I'm going to pony up more dough for insulating the whole she-bang...what the hey.

[Jim Becker]

High density bats are available for 2x4 walls in R15 rating. Same goes for 2x6 walls...they make something like R22-25 to fit in the same space as R19. You can also greatly increase the R-Value for the wall by putting a layer of that high-density foam board insulation under the drywall...this is especially effective in ceiling applications where the extra thickness/crushability will not hurt. A 1/2" or 1" thick panel packs a lot of extra R-value and also has that nice reflective surface to bounce heat in/out.