Help me Spend Money at Lee Valley

[John Adam]

Guys,

I have $300 to spend at Lee Valley....wanna help?

I'm new to ww, and very new to hand tools. I have some Groz bench planes, which are junk - never got them to work on anything.

I have a hock blade I bought from LV and am making a wooden plane around it.

I have some decent chisels and a mid-quality pull saw.

Other than that, I'm a blank slate. I look through the catalog and just get lost in fantasy land.

So, in my condition, what would you buy (oh, I might want to save $50 to $100 for wood ;)?

[george wilson]

What brand are your chisels,and are they new,still made? Big discussion of chisels in another thread. I guess the LV dovetail saw isn't too expensive,unless you plan to cut dovetails with your pull saw.

[John Adam]

The chisels are Narex, bought from Lee Valley and I've found them to be fine - at least compared to the plastic handled ones I bought at sears 10 years ago ;)

I've tried to cut dovetails with the pull saw - owned about 6 months (bought at same time as the chisels). I seem to have issues getting a proper cut, but think that's due to technique rather than the tool....

[Richard Niemiec]

Generally you can't go wrong at LV. Well, I can speak very well about the bevel up smoother and jack; I prefer their large router to LN's, love the medium and small shoulder planes, the small plough plane is a great plane, as well as the skewed rabbet plane (either of which will destroy your budget).

Depends on what you're looking for. I tend to not buy "normal" bench planes, but only those for which the Stanley equivalents are rare or "collector priced."

Good luck. RN

[John Coloccia]

Guys,

I have $300 to spend at Lee Valley....wanna help?

I'm new to ww, and very new to hand tools. I have some Groz bench planes, which are junk - never got them to work on anything.

I have a hock blade I bought from LV and am making a wooden plane around it.

I have some decent chisels and a mid-quality pull saw.

Other than that, I'm a blank slate. I look through the catalog and just get lost in fantasy land.

So, in my condition, what would you buy (oh, I might want to save $50 to $100 for wood ;)?

What do you work on? Do you have good sharpening tools?

Re Groz:

they can be made to work. The soles don't come flat. Also the chip breaker isn't fit properly. It'll take way more than honing the blade to make the groz work.

[Harlan Barnhart]

Pick a project and buy what you need to complete it.

[John Adam]

Thus far, I haven't built much of anything. Basically messed around with some scrap oak and Mahogany I had, making simple boxes and the wood plane.

Would like to make mid size jewelry boxes and maybe a mantle clock - moving up to larger pieces as my skill increases....

I was tending two directions - a bevel up plane or something to aid with sharpening.

I have some of the rockler sandpaper and a 1000/8000 waterstone, with the cheap blade holder for sharpening. I've never gotten the hock blade sharp enough to cut the hair on my arms, so I figure, again, it's a technique problem.

I worked on the Groz for hours (lapping, filing and sharpening) and can't seem to get anything close to the shavings I got with the wooden plane I made. In fact, all I could get it to do was chatter or stick. The blade seems to be so flimsly that within 5 minutes of sharpening, it looks like topographical map of the Rocky Mountains!

I think the issue there is that since I've never owned a plane that actuall worked, I'm not sure what I'm shooting for! Hence the desire for one of the bevel up planes.

[paul cottingham]

The Veritas sharpening stuff is terrific. I highly recommend you start there. I would buy a combination 1000/4000 stone, and their sharpening guide. Can't do much without sharp tools.

[John Keeton]

I have many LV products, but if I were narrowing it down to your budget, the list would include the BUS (best plane I own), and the MKII sharpening system with the both the straight and camber rollers. Those will probably exhaust your budget.

I use a scary sharp board with sandpaper in 7 grits, and I can get an extremely sharp edge with little difficulty - total cost about $50 for many, many months of use. No messy water stones, no flattening, etc.

But, there have been many battles fought here on SMC on that topic, and I just mention my method to give you a cost efficient option. It is easy to spend hundreds of dollars on sharpening methods.

Have fun with whatever you do!!

[Robert Rozaieski]

Pick a project and buy what you need to complete it.

YES! Do what Harlan says. :D

You could easily spend that money but if you don't have a project in mind, you could end up spending it on tools you may not immediately (or ever) need.

The projects you mention are smaller in scale so I'd focus on smaller stuff right now. Smoother or jack sized plane; 12-14" sized backsaw; you don't mention that you have any layout tools in the OP. Marking/layout tools are a must have for hand work. I'd get a good knife, marking/mortising gauge, try square, sliding bevel, dividers and folding rule. You can't do much without layout tools.

[Matt Stiegler]

Here's my take.

Do you have decent measuring and marking options already? If not, I'd get something like the 6" pocket rule (9.50), the 12" cabinetmaker's rule (12.95), the 6" imperial dial caliper (28.50), and the 3-in-1 brass marking gauge (23.50). You could go more expensive on every one of those, but even if you do later you'll still be glad to have these I believe. That's about $75 there, total. (You need a marking knife too, if you're looking to save a few bucks you can get one very similar to the Utilitas for $10 from hartvilletool.com, who has free shipping for orders over $100).

In my opinion, the first plane you want is a low angle block plane rather than a smoother. The Veritas is 139, I'd recommend the O1 blade. I'm sure its a great plane, although my sense is that the LN low angle block for 115 is a little more highly regarded (and a little cheaper too).

That leaves you roughly a hundred bucks. A few directions to go here. A decent bench is probably more important than any tool, and there's several great ways to spend money on that at LV, a face vise being the most obvious. Wonder dog a lot of bang for the buck. (If you don't have Schwarz's book on workbenches, I recommend it very highly).

Going with a honing guide, as others have suggested, also makes sense, the LV is a winner and you'll surely want one soon enough. One of their new dovetail saws is also great value.

No sense agonizing too much on how to spend this $300, its just the first of many in all likelihood, unless you've got more restraint than most of us.

[John Adam]

You guys are awesome...this is exactly what I wanted...

I'll keep thinking and dreaming, probably wait until closer to Christmas to see if any deals crop up....

[John Coloccia]

re: cutting the hair off your arms

I'm assuming you have the Norton 1000/8000 combo stone? That's an EXCELLENT stone to have, especially if you're only going to have one. And really, that's the only one you need. You do need a way to flatten it, if you don't have one already. I just use a granite surface plate and some 80 grit wet/dry sandpaper. Forget the Norton stone flattener. #1 it doesn't work well, and #2 now you need a way to flatten the stone flattener! A flat piece of glass will work to flatten it as well. I would recommend the table saw table, but you don't want to get your TS wet. I've had good luck getting pieces of granite from my local granite guy. He just sells me cutoffs for a couple of bucks, and this stuff is generally very very flat (take along a straight edge to check...it should be FLAT).

Oh, and Veritas makes a very nice straight edge by the way :)

Anyhow, to get REALLY sharp, you need a leather strop. I have several. The Butz strop paddle works very well. I also have some stroping leather that I have loose (for curved items) and some that are just tacked down to something flat with some spray adhesive. I strop 100% dry. With good stropping leather, you don't need any honing compound. If I wanted to use honing compound, I'd just use a finer stone instead....it's more convenient than that honing goop.

If you don't have a strop, that would be high on my list of things to pick up. Learn to strop and I promise you'll be shaving with your edges. Something else I've found: if you strop regularly, and by that I mean the instant the edge looses it's razor sharpness, you may find yourself reaching for the water stones less often. It's much easier to maintain an edge than it is to sharpen an edge.

re: honing guides. So far, the Veritas is my least favorite guide. That's not to say it's bad, and it's actually quite nice, but I like others better. It's easy to set a microbevel, but it's difficult to get the plane iron or chisel dead straight. I don't personally use a microbevel very often anyway because I started using a Tormek, and that gives me a hollow grind to start with. I prefer the side clamping guides with the thin wheel in the middle....and they're CHEAP. Lee Valley calls it a "vice type" honing guide. Everyone else calls it a side clamping guide. Check out Lie-Nielsen's video on sharpening. They have a great idea for a simple jig used to set the sharpening angle.

OK, I've blabbered enough.

[John Powers]

Get the little side clamping sharpening jig and nothing more. You can do whatever you need to do with that simple tool and the more elaborate ones while made well are overkill in the extreme. Get a nice stanley #5 off ebay to go with the Hock blade. Maybe get the LV dovetail saw and marking gage etc.

[george wilson]

I worked wood just fine until 1974,when I got my first dial caliper. I never use it on wood unless I am accurizing my thickness sander. I'd recommend another tool on such a small budget. Also,marking knives are so easy to make,and wouldn't a decent bench knife serve double duty? Just tilt it some to get close to the mark.

You can get a cheap stanley awl at lowes. Tell the truth,I use a block plane most of the time. Of course,I do mostly small work. Block plane is also used for guitars.

[Jack Camillo]

Pick a project and buy what you need to complete it.

That's exactly what I was going to say. Harlan beat me to it.
If you need help deciding what you need to complete a project of your chosing, this is also the place to ask. G'luck

[John Adam]

Thanks again.

I'm leaning toward a plane and have a question on block vs smoother.

Is there anything you can do with block plane that you couldn't do with a smoother (unless of course the space is too small for the larger plane)? Seems like the smoother would be more versatile...

[Kent A Bathurst]

Thanks again.

I'm leaning toward a plane and have a question on block vs smoother.

Is there anything you can do with block plane that you couldn't do with a smoother (unless of course the space is too small for the larger plane)? Seems like the smoother would be more versatile...

FYI - from FAQ on the Lie-Nielsen website:

I want to purchase a plane but don't know where to start, what are your suggestions?
The single most useful tool is a low angle block plane. We have several, and any of them would be used every day in the shop. Next, I would consider our Low Angle Jack Plane. It is a very versatile tool, and in many peoples hands it can double as a smoothing plane. I t is also a unique tool with no other equivalent. With those two tools you can do a lot of work. Third, I might like a dedicated Smoothing Plane.

[Matt Radtke]

Thanks again.

I'm leaning toward a plane and have a question on block vs smoother.

Is there anything you can do with block plane that you couldn't do with a smoother (unless of course the space is too small for the larger plane)? Seems like the smoother would be more versatile...

In a word, "Nope." The block plane will work much better than a smoother for cleaning up end grain and random other tasks. It's the real jack of all trades.

I would go so far as to say you should get them in the order of Block, Jointer (appropriately scaled for your work. I would call a no. 5 a jointer for the right sized stock,) then the smoother.

[mike holden]

John,
Deciding what to buy from Lee Valley is simple:
1) get the latest catalog,
2) start at the first page
3) if you DONT have the tool, buy it
4) (optional) stop when you have hit your budget
5) when you have more money, start again from where you left off
Simple.
Mike

[John Keeton]

Thanks again.

I'm leaning toward a plane and have a question on block vs smoother.

Is there anything you can do with block plane that you couldn't do with a smoother (unless of course the space is too small for the larger plane)? Seems like the smoother would be more versatile...I would agree that generally the low angle block plane is used by me more than any other. I actually have three - the LN 60.5 low angle, and two LN 102 bronze planes, one of which I have a 38* microbevel on for wierd grain. They are great in tight places, and in various other situations in which a smoother would not be the first choice, including end grain use.

However, since I mill most of my wood by machine, the smoother is used far more than a jack. But, everyone will differ on their individual needs. As Mike noted, it is hard to go wrong here, as you will be looking for a way to spend the next available $$ very soon!!:D Eventually, you will have all that have been mentioned - and many more!

[Tony Zaffuto]

With that budget, I would look at a LV low angle jack, a LV dovetail saw and if there is any change left, a LV "pocket" block plane. The Narex chisels are fine. You can pick up a scratch awl at the local Borg for a couple of bucks. You can also use an Exacto type knife, available at WallyWorld also for a couple of bucks. Marking gages usually need some tweaking, so I would just start with a down & dirty beech gage (LV has them) and file the pin.

Maybe this thread should be hijacked to ask the question: "What five handtools in your shop do you use most"?

[Jim Koepke]

Is there anything you can do with block plane that you couldn't do with a smoother (unless of course the space is too small for the larger plane)? Seems like the smoother would be more versatile..

I use my low angle block planes for trimming end grain. I do not have any bevel up smoothers. Have been thinking about getting one for use on a shooting board.

I think Tony had a good question, "What five handtools in your shop do you use most"?

My list, not necessarily in this order, would be:

1) Square for marking with a shop made knife and checking edges for square.
2) Saws
3) Block plane for trimming end grain.
4) Smoothing planes.
5) Chisels.

jim

[Doug Shepard]

Help me Spend Money at Lee Valley


Just look up my LV Wish List and send me everything on it. :D

If that don't work, I dont know anyone that shouldn't have at least one good block plane.

[Richard Niemiec]

John: Not for nothin', but in all honesty you can find vintage Stanley block planes that will serve you just fine while you get your feet wet; watch the classifieds below, and there's a bit more activity in hand tools over at Woodnet's classifieds. For $30 or so you can get a 9 1/2 (standard angle) in good shape that's likely been in service and appropriately fettled, and for $5 or $10 more a 60 1/2 (low angle). Buying from folk who have used the planes is a whole lot better than the ebay scene. Same with #4s, #5s; for a total of less than $150 on a good couple of days you would have a nice basic kit of block planes, a smoother and a jack, and you could spend the remainder on some good chisels and some marking and measuring tools. As you progress, and save your pennies up, you'll be able to make personal choices about premium "retail" priced tools and have a better idea about what direction you are going in the hobby, and buy accordingly.

By the way, the LV branded bevel edge chisels were rated very highly in the FWW chisel review of a year or so ago, and for a starter set of 5 they are very price competitive at $65 or so for 1/4 to 1".

[Tony Zaffuto]

My five (no particular order to any grouping) would be:

1. 4" Starret adjustable square
2. 6' Lufkin folding rule
3. LN #102 block plane
4. Disston #16 cc handsaw
5. marking tool (a general group consisting of pencils, knives, gauges)

Next five are:

6. LN low angle jack plane
7. Clifton #3 smoothing plane
8. Adria dovetail saw
9. chisels (again, a generalized grouping)
10. Stanley 41 pushdrill

Others that make life much easier:

11. Bench & vise
12. Shooting board
13. Jointer plane
14. Scrapers
15. Sharpening stones

These are just "quick picks" and later this evening when I visit SMC again, I'll wonder why I included this and not that!