Dado face frames to cabinet carcasses

[scott vroom]

I want to start a thread to discuss best practices for dadoing cabinet face frames to carcasses. I've searched this forum and have found no thread dedicated to this methodology. If I overlooked something, kindly let me know.

I'm not interested in discussing other methods on this thread, such as biscuit, pocket screw, glue/clamp only, etc. I've got questions specifically related to the dado method and am seeking responses from folks that use this method. If you don't use this method don't bother responding.

Thanks

[Rod Sheridan]

Well, even though you asked not to hear from me, I have a question.

What is the dado method of attaching a face frame?

I'm having a hard time visualising this as a dado is a cross grain cut, maybe I'm missing something.

Regards, Rod.

[Von Bickley]

Well, even though you asked not to hear from me, I have a question.

What is the dado method of attaching a face frame?

I'm having a hard time visualising this as a dado is a cross grain cut, maybe I'm missing something.

Regards, Rod.

I'm glad that Rod asked the question. I'll just sit back and wait on this one.

[Tony Bilello]

He probably don't want to hear this but I think he meant 'rabbit'.

[Randal Stevenson]

Well, even though you asked not to hear from me, I have a question.

What is the dado method of attaching a face frame?

I'm having a hard time visualising this as a dado is a cross grain cut, maybe I'm missing something.

Regards, Rod.


I believe he is using the term where he means Rabbet. The frame sits on the front of the cabinet, strengthening it like the back.

[Brian Walter]

Well, even though you asked not to hear from me, I have a question.

What is the dado method of attaching a face frame?

I'm having a hard time visualising this as a dado is a cross grain cut, maybe I'm missing something.

Regards, Rod.

While you are technically correct, I doubt very many people didn't know what he was talking about, especially a woodworker.

Scott, I believe you are referring to a tongue and groove joint. I used this method once and found it to be a lot more work than I wanted. If I recall correctly Marc Summerfeld sells a router bit set used specifically for this type of construction, you might want to check out his website, he may have information or a video available that would help you out.

Brian Walter

[scott vroom]

I think we're splitting fine hairs here, and I believe those of you with woodworking experience know what I'm talking about. Let me clarify my original post. I am referring to a groove cut in the stile and rails using a dado blade. The dado groove is 1/8" deep and 3/4" wide to receive the carcass sides/top. This is not a rabbet joint. I suppose you could call it a tongue and groove made with a dado blade.

I'm interested in hearing from anyone using this method to attach face frames to carcasses. All others need not respond.

Thanks

[scott vroom]

He probably don't want to hear this but I think he meant 'rabbit'.

Tony, no I'm not referring to "rabbit". By the way, it is spelled "rabbet". ;)

[Rod Sheridan]

I think we're splitting fine hairs here, and I believe those of you with woodworking experience know what I'm talking about. Let me clarify my original post. I am referring to a groove cut in the stile and rails using a dado blade. The dado groove is 1/8" deep and 3/4" wide to receive the carcass sides/top. This is not a rabbet joint. I suppose you could call it a tongue and groove made with a dado blade.

I'm interested in hearing from anyone using this method to attach face frames to carcasses. All others need not respond.

Thanks

Scott, having worked in the industry, and having done this as a hobby for 35 years, I've never seen this method of attaching a face frame to a cabinet.

This method would require that the face frame project out from the cabinet on all the sides, and would require stopped grooves so that they would not carry through the stiles.

If I understand you correctly, you are undertaking a lot of extremely labour intensive work to attach a face frame.

The dimensions would have to be exact, as you can't simply move a grooved joint 1/64" to have pieces line up.

Being not so accurate, and a bit lazy, I simply use glue and clamps to attach the face frames, although I do make the frames with M&T joints for the rails and stiles.

Regards, Rod.

[Brian Walter]

Scott, I guess I'm not quite referring the same construction technique you are. The one I was referring to only used a 1/4" - 3/8" groove in the face frame to accept the carcass which is rabbeted to form a tongue that fits into this groove in the face frame. This type of construction is found in a large portion of the mass produced kitchen cabinets on the market. I checked on Marc Summerfeld's website and he calls it a tongue and groove cabinet joint. Having only tried this method once, I'm probably not going to be that helpful.

Brian Walter

[David DeCristoforo]

This is a construction method popular with production shops. Here's what they typically do. First they build the carcass which is usually a 3/4" plywood or particle board bottom with 3/8" thick sides stapled to the ends The sides are 3/8" wider that the bottoms and are held flush at the back. This leaves the sides 3/8" "proud" of the bottom. Then they groove (dado) the face frame stiles. The bottoms are not dadoed because the bottom wants to be flush with the top edge of the lower rail. Then the face frame is applied, more often than not with hot melt glue. Sometimes the bottom rail is nailed to the deck but not always because the whole idea here is to get the face frame onto the "cabinet" as quickly as possible and with a minimum of fussing with time wasting things like clamping, nailing (and it's accompanying need for hole filling), aligning, etc. You could do the same thing with 3/4" thick ends and have a slightly "better" cabinet but this is generally not a method that finds much favor with shops wanting to offer "better" quality.

[David Kuhnen]

Yes, I use this technique to build cabinets. I first saw this used by Marc Adams at a woodworking show seminar. He only puts a groove in the outside stiles and their main purpose is to lock the sides to the front during assembly. This makes for a fast, accurate way to join the pieces together and still allow adjustment for square (since you're not locked into the rails)

This also offers the benefit of hiding or protecting the veneer plywood edge where it joins the face frame since it's inside the groove. Depending on the wood dimensions I typically glue and pocket screw to join.

[scott vroom]

David, if you are putting the groove in the stiles only, then are you cutting carcass top and bottom pieces narrower by an amount equal to the depth of the stile dado cut? The other way I've seen it done is to dado all 4 face frame pieces prior to assembly, then cut small notches at the ends of the top and bottom carcass pieces to avoid the problem of using horizontal dado cuts at the top and bottom of the stiles. Seems to work well. One thing I like about this method is that it gives you a super clean end panel on exposed sides by covering the plywood carcass edge. I think the look is superior to butt jointing the face frame to the carcass edge.

[David Kuhnen]

"cutting carcass top and bottom pieces narrower" yes, you have to plan for this when cutting the sides, top & bottom. Other than cutting a different dimension, I think it's easier to work with the grooves only on the sides.
As you said, you now would have to notch the stiles to extend the rail groove, you're locked into any problems with the face frame and your bottom shelf would require a rabbet instead of a groove to be flush with the frame.

I believe Marc prefers his method because it speeds assembly, hides the edge and allows for some minor adjustability. I do recall that he likes his grooves to be half the depth of the face frame, I prefer about 1/8".

[Mike Heidrick]

Post some pictures up for us biscuit and pocket screw guys.

[David Kuhnen]

Actually, as David DeC said above, production shops use this technique a lot. Just stop into HD or Lowes and look at how the face frame is joined to an exposed side on their production cabinetry.