Windows 7 Yes or No? [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Brian Jacobs

11-03-2009, 12:07 PM

Just saw news coverage on Windows 7 this AM and did a quick search on this forum. Is anyone using it and having success or issues? I have a Universal Laser and CorelDraw x3. Very scary to upgrade, but they have a home upgrade package for 3 computers for $149 which is pretty cool and it will allow my kids to do other cool stuff between their PCs.

Thanks!
Tracey

Tracey,

In my opinion, it is definitely worth the upgrade. I helped with the beta versions and now have the retail on all my computers, including the one hooked to my Universal 2.30. In talking to tech (at Universal), as long as you are running any version 5.24.38 or newer of the ULS software, you are fine. If you have an earlier version, contact them and they will send you the latest.

Windows 7 takes a long time to install from scratch, so be prepared to spend some time with it. The installation is pretty fool proof. I think you will find that programs run significantly faster, especially when compared to Vista. If you're used to XP, a bit faster, but far more user friendly... and none of the XP bugs.

I am running X4 with no problem and there should not be any with X3. And specifically, I'm also running 5.27.48 Control Panel which I believe is the latest.

Garrett Nors

11-03-2009, 12:51 PM

I absolutely LOVE windows 7!! I have it on 4 of my computers already!

They really did things right with this OS. All testing was done in beta where it belonged, it wasn't rushed like Vista was. Amazing OS for sure. Much snappier, robust, and it looks so clean and nice and pretty......did I say how much I loved Win 7? :D

Lee DeRaud

11-03-2009, 1:21 PM

Garrett Nors

11-03-2009, 1:24 PM

I know the conventional wisdom is "fresh install, not upgrade"...fine for the laptop, but that could get extremely ugly on my upstairs machine.
Anybody have any experience with an in-place upgrade from Vista Home Premium to the equivalent version of 7?

Unfortunately I was running Windows Vista Ultimate on my upstairs machine, so I had to do a custom install.

Download this:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=1b544e90-7659-4bd9-9e51-2497c146af15&displaylang=en

And it will tell you what you need for the upgrade.

As usual back up even if it is an upgrade!

When I did my installation I downloaded the entire OS (via MSDNAA, gotta love going to college) and it ran from my desktop! It was quite amazing if you ask me!

Anthony Scira

11-03-2009, 1:34 PM

If your running Vista SP2 on the machines with no troubles I would not upgrade. Unless you just want to.

If your running XP use the compatibility checker to make sure you have the horsepower and drivers. Then upgrade to 7.

No matter what you do PLEASE backup your data.

Tracey Bakewell

11-03-2009, 1:37 PM

I know the conventional wisdom is "fresh install, not upgrade"...fine for this laptop, but that could get extremely ugly on my upstairs machine.
Anybody have any experience with an in-place upgrade from Vista Home Premium to the equivalent version of 7?

I also would be wanting to do an in-place upgrade as I have a lot of things that were a bear to setup as it is. 1 Vista, and 2 XP PCs. Also! What about PhotoGrave the older version? So far though, I think I'm gonna go for it!

Garrett Nors

11-03-2009, 1:39 PM

I also would be wanting to do an in-place upgrade as I have a lot of things that were a bear to setup as it is. 1 Vista, and 2 XP PCs. Also! What about PhotoGrave the older version? So far though, I think I'm gonna go for it!

The link I posted above checks drivers, programs, hardware, and OS version for compatibility. Give it a whirl :D

Dan Hintz

11-03-2009, 2:02 PM

They really did things right with this OS. All testing was done in beta where it belonged, it wasn't rushed like Vista was.
Could it be because Vista was the beta for 7? Nothing like having a 2-year beta to shake out all of the bugs... :p

James Jaragosky

11-03-2009, 2:20 PM

I did the upgrade from vista home sp2. it took some time but worked flawlessly.
I did do the compatibility check and resolved all issues before doing the up grade. I did backup everything to a external HD before starting.
It has been very stable I have no complaints.

Brian Jacobs

11-03-2009, 2:21 PM

No need to 'fresh install' unless you are extremely anal (can I say that in this forum?) With the 'upgrade' install, it will take longer largely due to the re-indexing, changing registry entries and existing file moving that it needs to do.

The deciding factor on fresh vs. upgrade us usually centers around whether you've loaded your computer up with a bunch of programs that you don't need or no longer use. In that case, there will typically be a lot of 'registry trash' left over that didn't get deleted, when you may have deleted the program. This tends to slow everything down.

Lee DeRaud

11-03-2009, 2:31 PM

No matter what you do PLEASE backup your data.Backing up the data is trivial, it's reinstalling all the programs that would kill me.:eek:

Brian Jacobs

11-03-2009, 2:38 PM

Backing up the data is trivial, it's reinstalling all the programs that would kill me.:eek:

Excellent point, plus all the upgrades.

Dan Hintz

11-03-2009, 2:47 PM

Prepare for a fresh install if you are moving from 32-bit to 64-bit... no upgrade option with that one.

Lee, starting with my next build, I will be using Acronis True Image. I'll install the base OS, download all patches, and tune it to my liking. This will be followed by installation and tuning of my favorite programs. Once the core system is set, ATI will back it up onto an external HD (which are starting to push $50/TB!!!). Should anything go wrong, I can have a workable system back up and running within an hour or so. Well worth the $74.

Lee DeRaud

11-03-2009, 3:06 PM

Lee, starting with my next build, I will be using Acronis True Image.Huh. I used that with XP, but never managed to get it working under Vista, and it shows as 'incompatible' in the Windows 7 Upgrade Advisor.

I've been using DriveImage XML (the free version), works very nicely with my 1TB WD external.

Dan Hintz

11-03-2009, 3:17 PM

The 2010 version supports Win7, and I quoted the price on the wrong package... the Home version is $49, so even better.

Brian Jacobs

11-03-2009, 3:38 PM

Universal doesn't have a 64-bit driver yet (unfortunately). Stay with 32-bit on your production machine.

Lee DeRaud

11-03-2009, 4:36 PM

Universal doesn't have a 64-bit driver yet (unfortunately). Stay with 32-bit on your production machine.Not an issue: the machine driving the laser can keep run XP until it gets replaced, probably 2012 if I stay to my usual four-year cycle.
(I do all the heavy lifting on the newer machine anyway...the old one just has to grab the Corel file over the network and throw it at the laser.)

Brian Jacobs

11-03-2009, 5:00 PM

Not an issue: the machine driving the laser can keep run XP until it gets replaced, probably 2012 if I stay to my usual four-year cycle.
(I do all the heavy lifting on the newer machine anyway...the old one just has to grab the Corel file over the network and throw it at the laser.)

Very good way to do it. Besides, hopefully Universal will have a 64-bit driver in 4 years! :p (Are you listening Universal?) It just bites having to 'dumb down' to 32-bit a brand new multi-media computer that operates the speed of light under 64. I should inherit one of your 4 year-olds so I quit feeling sorry for myself!

donald bugansky

11-03-2009, 5:14 PM

Just sharing my thoughts. I've been in the technology sector for the past 35 years, spending much of my time in software development with a major player in the computer industry (no free plugs here).

My 2 cents is...... if it's working now, why make the change unless there is some compelling reason that "forces you" to make the change. 32 bit - 64 bit won't mean much to a lot of folks unless you are doing some higher end computational/encoding types of applications. Remember, to get the advantage of 64bit, the apps have to be re-written to leverage the new technology as well as a number of hardware issues as well. Yeah it will work...but to really leverage the new technology can take a number of hardware/software variables that need to be considered.

Rule of thumb is that you usually want to be 2 builds behind the current one. Give it time for all the bugs to get worked out. Kinda of where the phrase "bleeding edge" came from. It can be painful if you want to play in the "early adopters" arena. Case in point, AT&T still deploys XP on the laptops to their employees (300k) and it will be at least 2 years before they move the desktops to Win 7 just to ensure they know "all the issues" due to support considerations.

The biggest issue will arise when you have a problem. You've just introduced another "element" in the whole "process of elimination" stage when trying to figure out what the problem is. One of the first question/response you will hear is, Oh, that's not "fully" tested on Win 7 yet or even better is "we don't have a lot of experience yet" with Win 7.

It's fun to load the new stuff and I've been there myself. Sometimes I've been Ok, other times I wish I would have stayed put!

Have fun regardless :)

Julian Nicks

11-03-2009, 5:28 PM

I'm with you Donald. I run xp sp1 on my old laptop since it is basically a machine for running only one program, and it doesn't go online. My other pc that I built runs xp with all the updates. I have no reason to upgrade yet as xp does what I need it to without hassles. I'll be runnig xp until I absolutely have to switch over and by then I'll assume the bugs will be worked out. I don't feel the need to keep up with the Jonses when it comes to computers, since it's just a tool.

Lee DeRaud

11-03-2009, 5:31 PM

It just bites having to 'dumb down' to 32-bit a brand new multi-media computer that operates the speed of light under 64.Unless you're working with outrageously huge databases (or something else that uses memory in multi-gigabyte chunks), I'm not seeing any huge advantage in running 64-bit over 32-bit. There are a few throughput gains to be had (e.g. more SSE registers), but even then the apps have to be tweaked at a rather low level to take advantage of them. Once software compatibility/availability is taken into account, I suspect most people are better off with 32-bit.

In another year, when the standard cheap PCs have 6-8GB of RAM, that may change.

Scott Shepherd

11-03-2009, 6:27 PM

Universal doesn't have a 64-bit driver yet (unfortunately). Stay with 32-bit on your production machine.

I thought ULS had the 64 bit driver done. I thought the last thing I saw about it was that it was in Microsoft's hands waiting to be signed.

I could be completely wrong, but it seems like that discussion came up about 6 months ago and that was the info at the time. They didn't have a release date because they had no indication from MS when it would be signed, so it was a wait and see type of thing.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Dan Hintz

11-03-2009, 6:31 PM

Unless you're working with outrageously huge databases (or something else that uses memory in multi-gigabyte chunks), I'm not seeing any huge advantage in running 64-bit over 32-bit. There are a few throughput gains to be had (e.g. more SSE registers), but even then the apps have to be tweaked at a rather low level to take advantage of them. Once software compatibility/availability is taken into account, I suspect most people are better off with 32-bit.

In another year, when the standard cheap PCs have 6-8GB of RAM, that may change.
The biggest advantage is being able to access more than 3.5GB of memory... when I'm working on large PCBs or running image processing routines on GB-size images, that extra memory is a Godsend. Assuming I have the computing horsepower, I can also have a 3D model or simulation being calculated in the background while I'm continuing to do work in the foreground (such as editing a Corel file).

True, the programs need to be written to support that extra memory space, but when you start putting 8GB of memory into a machine, hopefully you have a reason to need it other than keeping up with the techno-geek next door. Will the average web surfer / email checker care about 64-bit? Not for years to come, but I think many of us here do much more than that.

Brian Jacobs

11-03-2009, 6:32 PM

Scott, that's my understanding also. Microsoft can drag their feet forever to certify.

Lee, you're right again, but I'm one of those people.

Lee DeRaud

11-03-2009, 8:00 PM

And... bottom line, if I purchase a 64-bit 'screaming' machine, why should I have to remove some of its processing power just to run a laser (which is just a glorified printer)?I hear ya, but I could just as easily ask why you're using a quad-core, umpteen-GB, 64-bit screamer as a glorified printer server.:D

Just kidding. I fully understand that there are jobs for which you need (or at least want) the extra grunt of the 64-bit screamer...did I mention I'm a retired software engineer? I admit I may have a bit of a blind spot about this because I have a separate machine dedicated to driving the laser and it's not even in the same room as the machine I use for tasks that require mass quantities of computing power. (Safety considerations aside, I'd really hate to have to do video editing or anything similar with the laser and its blower screaming in my ear.)

Matt Sollars

11-03-2009, 8:10 PM

GO MAC OR GO HOME........

(I feel outnumbered here....:) )

Dave Lehnert

11-03-2009, 8:29 PM

I love this TV ad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpOvzGiheOM

Anthony Scira

11-03-2009, 9:19 PM

Geez guys I was wondering when the Mac crowd would chime in.

Thanks for the useful information on the decision to upgrade the OS on 3 machines.

I am sure Tracey can't wait to go to the Apple store and buy 3 new machines.

:rolleyes:

p.s - Apple does have the best commercials.

Scott Shepherd

11-04-2009, 7:56 AM

Mod's, this was a specific question about running W7 on a brand of laser engraver. Can we move it back to the laser section, since it's not "off topic" to be asking if their are any problems with running W7 on certain lasers?

This thread has plenty of value in the laser section and will be overlooked by many laser people that don't visit the off topic forum.

Brian Jacobs

11-04-2009, 9:41 AM

Who put this in "Off Topic"? There is some very important information in this thread for people that have Universal lasers and want to upgrade to Windows 7. It's also not limited to Universal owners as others that have Epilog, etc. may want to chime in. Granted, it may have gotten a little 'opinionated', but every comment was 'on topic', 'dead on' and made by individuals who have years of experience and really know their business.

This thread deserves to be moved back to the Engravers Forum.

Sincerely,
Brian Jacobs

Scott M Smith

11-07-2009, 5:10 AM

I have been running W7 since 10/8/09. I have the ultimate version. I think it runs better than Vista and even has some of the features that vista was supposed to. I have tried it out with X4 and it runs well. I would recommend it to anyone who is currently running Vista.

Lee DeRaud

11-10-2009, 9:16 PM

Ooookaaay...just ordered the W7 Home Premium 3-pack and an extra 4GB of memory.

That's the good news. The bad news is, the Computer Associates security suite I'm using (free from Time-Warner) isn't compatible with Windows7. (In fact, it's not even compatible with 64-bit Vista.) So I'm open to suggestions for cheap/free A/V programs, preferably ones whose real-time scanning doesn't make the machine run like it's being paid by the hour.

James Jaragosky

11-10-2009, 10:08 PM

My only negative experience was the loss of most of my fonts. I upgraded from vista premium 64 bit to windows 7 ultimate. I have the missing fonts saved on another Hd. so I should be OK.
Jim J.

Denny Rice

11-10-2009, 11:21 PM

Lee DeRaud

11-11-2009, 12:37 AM

I Don't have to............I'm a MAC. I am superior. :):eek::D No seriously before you give Microjunk another couple hundred bucks for a half working operating system, look at Apple and their great platform. It never crashes, I never get the "blue screen of death" I never have to worry about viruses, ect. Its just a better system.Well, that was certainly helpful.

Or not.

Denny Rice

11-11-2009, 12:54 AM

Well, that was certainly helpful.

Or not.

LOL! It was a joke...........Except for the part of the MAC OS being superior to Microjunk!

Brian Jacobs

11-11-2009, 1:16 AM

Lee,

Welcome to the dark side. Anti-virus... check out Microsoft Security Essentials. It's on their website. It's a freebie. (and I thought nothing was free from Microsoft.) I've been running it for a couple weeks and it seems OK... much smaller footprint than their previous anti-virus programs.

Scott M Smith

11-11-2009, 6:48 AM

I have been using AVG. It works good, too.
www.avgfree.com (http://www.avgfree.com)

Scott Shepherd

11-11-2009, 8:07 AM

This is an important thread to laser users, so please don't take this down the PC vs. Mac route. This discussion isn't about PC or Mac, it's about whether W7 will work with drivers on lasers. Please try and keep it on topic so we don't end up with a locked thread of have to get moderators involved.

There are plenty of PC vs. Mac threads in the off topic section, if you must comment on that, please do it there.

Lee DeRaud

11-11-2009, 10:31 AM

check out Microsoft Security Essentials. It's on their website. It's a freebie. (and I thought nothing was free from Microsoft.)Huh. I always wondered why there wasn't an "official" one built-in...guess the court cases made them too gun-shy.

Thanks.

Dan Hintz

11-11-2009, 10:57 AM

Normally I would recommend AVG, too, but recent builds have caused system stability issues, lost files, etc... be aware.

Curt Harms

11-11-2009, 7:09 PM

Normally I would recommend AVG, too, but recent builds have caused system stability issues, lost files, etc... be aware.

I've been using AVAST antivirus for a few years. It doesn't seem to impose too much of a performance hit and I've gotten warnings when using hotel internet connections. It didn't permit any nasties to be downloaded. At least that's what it said. I assume it works with Win7.

Tim Bateson

11-11-2009, 9:46 PM

Robert Ray

11-12-2009, 2:13 PM

I upgraded my computer to Windows 7 64 bit a few weeks ago, then downloaded the Laserpro C180 Vista driver for 64 bit OS, and it works perfectly. I am really happy with Windows 7 so far.

The only purchased software I use is Corel X4, and even though it is for 32 bit, it loaded and works fine.

I downloaded the free Microsoft Security Essentials software, and it seems ok, it don't bog the computer down or anything.

Everything else I use is freeware. I installed the free Open Office suite, and it opens all the MS office files fine.

There are no 64 bit drivers for my Laserpro Venus laser, but I downloaded the free Windows XP virtual machine software, and then opened the XP mode up and loaded my Venus driver just fine.

That XP mode makes the deal! All the old software will work just fine in XP mode.

-Robert

Bill Cunningham

11-14-2009, 4:26 PM

I have been using AVG. It works good, too.
www.avgfree.com (http://www.avgfree.com)

Just stay away from that 'Avast' thing.. It bogged my computer right down and even though it has a uninstall, it leaves junk threaded all through your system. I thought I finally got it all out, but nope, I still get the odd popup when I try to load an older program.. My Panda virus checker (one year subscription came with the new computer) went south for some reason, so I went to the mcfee site and they have a 3 month. free trial. I used it on an older system and was satified, their current version works very well and will buy it before the trial runs out.. On these free checkers, You 'do' get what you pay for in most cases.

Lee DeRaud

11-14-2009, 8:40 PM

So far, so good (knock on wood). The extra 4GB of RAM and the DVDs from Microsoft both showed up yesterday morning, and I've been configuring my "new" computer ever since.

Since I was going from Vista/32 to 7/64, it was a "custom" install. But as it turns out, "custom" is not the same thing as "bare-metal clean": the entire Program File, Windows, and Users directory trees get preserved under a "Windows.old" directory. Doesn't help with the program reinstalls, but it beats having to copy a couple hundred GB back in from the external drive. (I'm not kidding about that: ~1000 CDs worth of MP3s, several thousand scanned slides and negatives, and a ton of synthesizer sample files take up a lot of room.)

Corel and friends, my software development tools, and most of my music and photography stuff is back in play. Machine is quite zippy...bunch of contributors to that: more RAM, no preinstalled OEM cruft, and whatever benefit W7 and 64-bit themselves bring to the table. I've still got all the Aero eye-candy enabled: decided for once to just "embrace the suck" rather than trying to force the whole world into "Windows Classic" mode.

The only major incompatibility casualty is my 7-year-old Minolta film scanner: obsolete hardware from a defunct manufacturer is a bad combination for the transition to 64-bit. Luckily I'm done with my slides and negs, my mom's slides, and my girlfriend's slides, and it will still work on the XP machine if something comes up. Or else I'll just give it away to the next friend who finds a shoebox full of old film in the attic.

I have the 3-pack of upgrades (well, 2-pack now), but I may let the laptop stay with Vista for awhile: I'm told that HP is way behind the curve on Win7 when it comes to support for the oddball extra "keys" that control the speakers, DVD, etc.

Anthony Scira

11-15-2009, 1:46 PM

I do finally have a problem with Win7 RC 64bit/Corel X3/Epilog Driver. It won't work at 1200DPI for anything other than a minimum job. It gives me some error about the driver needing reinstalled. Restarting Corel X3 resolves the driver problem, but only if I then lower the DPI.

I think the Epilog Drivers are Beta drivers and the only official release is for the 32 bit.

Give the tech support some feedback, could help them with the final.

Jerry Allen

11-15-2009, 6:29 PM

I have been using Avast! for a year now and like it. It uses less system resources than AVG. I have tried it on Win7-32 with no problem.
Most virus sofware is extemely invasive and does not cleanly uninstall. One reason I hate Norton and Macafee. I have not used the new free MS stuff yet. It might be okay.
I trust Avast! and Spybot and am pretty careful about what I do or open.

I tested the beta and RC candidate of Win7 because I have old software that works great in XP--particularly my drafting platform, Helix MicroCADAM.
Still works in Win7 but with a lot of tweaking. The security bs is really annoying even when turned all the way down.

I bought the Win7 3-pack because it is priced right, and installed it on various machines to test it in 32 and 64-bit mode. I used to do a lot of video editing, some programing and compiling which I don't do anymore. I could not tell any difference using the same hardware using typical programs including Corel CGS X3/X4 and Office 2003. The only thing I know for sure is that in order to use more than 3.5GB you need the 64 bit version, and that there are programs and hardware that will never work. My machines all have 2GB, so it's not an issue to me. Surprisingly though in 64 bit, all my hardware had drivers which Windows 7 recognized and installed drivers for including video and audio (excluding a network printer and my Mercury).
If you are a tinkerer, Win7 loses hands down to XP.
Win7 is better than Vista and has a few cool features, but for the most part, I think XP is faster, smaller and cleaner.
Unless you are a gamer, are putting together a new machine, or are using Vista, I wouldn't bother. The 3-pack is a deal though, which may be needed in the future and is a limited time offer. So get it anyway.

I think that keeping the power requirements down for everyday computing is a worthwhile endeavor. I have an Intel Atom N330 Dual Core running XP that will also run Vista and Win7. It uses 40 watts under load with 2GB of RAM, a 500GB hd and a DVD burner. It works fine with Corel CGS, the net, and my laser. For most folks, that's all they need. This thing could stay on 24/7 and still use far less power than some kid's outrageous game rig. Better for the planet, better for America. Using more power so you can run Aero is bs. And the MS collar gets tighter...