Finishing - Plywood & Solid Cherry

[Teresa Jones]

I am building the nightstand featured as this month's free download over at Wood Magazine, only I am using all Cherry materials.

I made up a board of possible stains (matching existing furniture). The stain I prefer is perfect on the plywood, but not so great on the solid wood.

Is there something I can do to bring about a better match between the plywood and the solid cherry. Both the plywood and the cherry has been sanded to 220 grit.

Thanks for your help.

TJ

[Donnie Raines]

The best success I have had when dealing with contrasting colors(plywood/solid wood), is water base dye. Please keep in mind, however, that of all the woods out there to match and to keep the match(if you would) cherry is the most difficult. Cherry will oxidize to a beautiful deep brownish red color...and no matter how much pigment you add, the two colors will always been noticable. The plywood will except the dye just fine...but will not age as icely as the solid wood...so you will have that issue down the line.

I have heard that useing a glaze helps..though I have never used it for this application.

[Ken Salisbury]

I am only assuming that using the same stain on the cherry plywood is resulting in a darker color on the ply than on the solid cherry. If that is the case try applying some Minwax Wood Conditioner on a scrap piece of the ply and see if you get a closer match.

Just a thought

[Ellen Benkin]

I have no solution, but I do have another suggestion. Since one of the reasons for using cherry is the aging process I never stain cherry but let it color itself naturally. I suggest using a stain on the plywood but just an oil finish on the cherry. I am also assuming that the plywood is not visible from the front or top of the piece, so most of the time you are looking at the cherry only.

[Teresa Jones]

Thanks everyone for your input.

The issue is that the plywood is darker than the solid. So, maybe I just go forward and let the cherry age to the darker color.

I didn't realize cherry would be difficult to match and maintain - thank you for that information.

I also would prefer not to stain the cherry, but the surrounding furnishings are much deeper and dark in color than if I applied only a natural finish.

I am a novice at best and I probably should have used something other than cherry.

I will also try a test case with the wood conditioner.

Many thanks,

TJ

[Donnie Raines]

TJ,

The fact that the ply is darker is actually...to some extent...a good thing. Of coarse..it all depends on how much darker it is comapred to the solid cherry. Also, even if you apply color to even out the color, the cherry will still continue to change to a darker color on the solid wood.

[Michael Stafford]

Teresa, another thing you might try is to use a gel stain. Gel stains penetrate less quickly than other stains and allow you to adjust by how much you remove and how long it stays in place. Sometimes you can also achieve a pretty good match by using some of the combo stain/varnishes.

[Brad Schmid]

Teresa,

Try to get your hands on a copy of "Great Wood Finishes" by Jeff Jewitt. He covers several methods of finishing cherry and specifically covers exactly what you are trying to do (matching color tones). It essentially involves water/alcohol based dye (amber), seal coat of shellac (2# garnet), glazing (ie. Gel stain), and top coat.

I'm actually in the middle of doing this procees for the first time myself on a solid cherry cabinet exhibiting "blochiness", so I can't speak for results yet. Maybe Todd Burch will chime in on this one, I think he's pretty educated and experienced on this subject.

Regards,
Brad

[Roger Myers]

Teresa, you will get plenty of feedback on the subject of finishing cherry....since you are seekinga darker color to match furnishings you will over time benefit from the aging of the Cherry..it will darken considerably over time (one of it's nicest features imho) and quick enough that you don't want to leave items in a fixed position on a new cherry surface as they will quickly develop a tell-tale lighter area (where they blocked the light) -
After you complete the pieces, but before you apply any finish...place the piece in direct sunlight (outside is best) for several days, rotating the piece for an "even tan". Try this with a test piece....it darkens fairly quickly and will continue to for a long time...
Also, search the archives...there is much advice on finishing cherry.
My personal favorite is an oil finish....and then let nature takes its course.
Roger

[Donnie Raines]

Teresa,

Try to get your hands on a copy of "Great Wood Finishes" by Jeff Jewitt. He covers several methods of finishing cherry and specifically covers exactly what you are trying to do (matching color tones). It essentially involves water/alcohol based dye (amber), seal coat of shellac (2# garnet), glazing (ie. Gel stain), and top coat.

I'm actually in the middle of doing this procees for the first time myself on a solid cherry cabinet exhibiting "blochiness", so I can't speak for results yet. Maybe Todd Burch will chime in on this one, I think he's pretty educated and experienced on this subject.

Regards,
Brad
Brad,

The blotch that you speak of will most likely be there when you are done. The blotch is actually a degree of figure showing up within the lumber. The blotch is actually called "curly cherry". The figure is something that can not be covered over and should be celebrated for its beauty(a statement made by a friend of mine) that I completly agree with.

[Steve Jenkins]

Teresa,

Try to get your hands on a copy of "Great Wood Finishes" by Jeff Jewitt. He covers several methods of finishing cherry and specifically covers exactly what you are trying to do (matching color tones). It essentially involves water/alcohol based dye (amber), seal coat of shellac (2# garnet), glazing (ie. Gel stain), and top coat.


Regards,
Brad
TJ if you don't have a copy of the book swing by and I'll let you borrow mine.
Steve

[Brad Schmid]

Brad,

The blotch that you speak of will most likely be there when you are done. The blotch is actually a degree of figure showing up within the lumber. The blotch is actually called "curly cherry". The figure is something that can not be covered over and should be celebrated for its beauty(a statement made by a friend of mine) that I completly agree with.

Donnie - I agree with you if that were the case, however the blotch in this case is not (or does not appear to be) a result of figure. It seems more a result of a change in density and/or a change in resin content. I had some curly cherry that I laid side by side with this, wet the surface of both and there was a distinct difference in the pattern of the blotching and the color. I'll just have to see how it turns out. I can assure you it's nothing worth celebrating at this point :D

cheers,
Brad

[Teresa Jones]

Thanks, Steve. I might do just that. It is finally bearable in the garage and I am regaining my sanity being able to work wood again!

BTW, let me know what I can do to help with the BBQ next month!!

TJ

[Todd Burch]

Teresa, I think I have an answer for you about why the same wood - one a thin veneer and the other a solid wood, became two different colors when stained with the same stain in the same stain session.

In a word... sanding.

Factory plywood is sanded by big machines. Agressively. Pretty coarse grits are used to quickly flatten the applied veneers and move the sheets down the assembly line. Plywood feels pretty smooth to the touch when you get it, so you probably only sanded the ply with 220.

However, you probably sanded the solid wood with several different grits. You might have started with 120, then 150, then 180 and finally 220. By doing this, the solid wood has all the previous grits' scratches removed. When sanding the ply with only 220, there are still significant coarse grit scratches, and these are with the grain so they are harder to see... until you apply stain! Get a magnifying glass and check it out.

Do another sample if you have any ply & solid left. Sand the ply with the same sanding schedule that you use on the solid wood. Your results should be equivalent.

If you are staining any wood, not just cherry, 220 grit is just about too fine and overkill, ESPECIALLY if you want the piece to be dark. Although, if you are using a ROS, 220 is not too fine, as you need that fine of a grit to mask all the swirl marks. With-the-grain-sanding, 150 is usually where I stop.

Let us know if this could be the case (my assumptions on your sanding).

If you haven't put a finish coat, you can still go back and resand the solid wood to add scratches with the grain, then re-stain. The longer pigmented stain sits, the darker it will get. Also, be sure to mix the stain up good prior to use, as the pigment is what clumps at the bottom of the can when it sits for any length of time, leaving mostly oil on top.

Todd