Sticking cut tearout question...

[David Rose]

Here are a couple of pics of tearout that is occuring on the cherry blanket chest I'm building. I think it is happening possibly because of too fast a feed. This stuff burns so easily that I may be overdoing the feed rate. I'm playing around with that.

The real question is what to do about present damage. This is all on the back of the chest, so far, btw. SWIWTP (She who I want to please) says it won't show on the back of the chest since it will always be against the foot of the bed or a wall. But she is really easy to please. :) I appreciate that, but don't want to produce "substandard" work. I know *how* to deal with it with glue/wood filler. What I really want to know is whether I *should* deal with it. I have a lot of these spots and it will be a lot of work to correct them.

I suspect that it "might" show sometime or I wouldn't have used the rail/stile cutter and raised the panels. :o The close up purposely exagerates the tearout with shadows so that it would show clearly in the photo. The shot that shows the whole piece is a little more realistic. It does show though.

Thanks for any input.

David

[Mike Palmer]

David, I have seen this many times over the years using a stile and rail cutter. The tear out effects diffent woods differently. The grain also plays a big role. He is what I do to eliminate this problem. I usually make the cut in two passes. First I make as shallow climb cut. No more than 1/8". This will start the profile and the panel groove. Keep in mind you will need to hang on the the piece and keep control. Once complete, finish the cut the normal direction and the edge should be clean.

[Marcus Hutchison]

Hello David,

I have had the same problem myself, mostly with Red Oak. I solved my problem by making a zero clearance fence for my shaper. It has the same effect as a zero clearance insert for your table saw, much less tear out. As for the piece you are working on, I would redo the pieces that have a lot of tear out. If you don't, you will never be happy with the finished product.

[David Rose]

Mike, I thought about making two passes, but didn't think of climb cutting. I guess the tearout *is* on the outside where a light cut or climb cut would help. :rolleyes: I'm pretty comfortable with a light climb cut on the table.

My only concern with this is opening the groove a little with different pressures. I guess if I don't disturb the featherboard, I should be OK. I'll try some scraps.

Thanks for the tip.

Daivd


David, I have seen this many times over the years using a stile and rail cutter. The tear out effects diffent woods differently. The grain also plays a big role. He is what I do to eliminate this problem. I usually make the cut in two passes. First I make as shallow climb cut. No more than 1/8". This will start the profile and the panel groove. Keep in mind you will need to hang on the the piece and keep control. Once complete, finish the cut the normal direction and the edge should be clean.

[David Rose]

Marcus, I almost made a "0" clearance insert. My thinking was that since the cut that is tearing out is slightly away from the fence, it wouldn't help. It is close though, so maybe it would. Where the tearout is the worst and most noticable is on the little thumb profile. This doesn't touch the fence.

I just knew someone would say the nasty "you'll never be happy with it unless you "fix" it". :eek: Dadburn it! Why do I always have to get someone tell me that? :( But right you are! ;)

Thanks

David


Hello David,

I have had the same problem myself, mostly with Red Oak. I solved my problem by making a zero clearance fence for my shaper. It has the same effect as a zero clearance insert for your table saw, much less tear out. As for the piece you are working on, I would redo the pieces that have a lot of tear out. If you don't, you will never be happy with the finished product.

[Dan Gill]

The problems I've had with this have been on red oak. I was making two passes, but it still happened. I now make sure I'm going with the grain on the sticking cut. That seems to have cured the problem. I haven't tried the zero clearance fence insert. I'll have to give that a whirl.

[Greg Heppeard]

Another possible solution would be to run it over the table saw...just relieve a little stress in the wood at the groove point before running the profile. I know it works well on panel stock but haven't tried it on rails and stiles.

[David Rose]

Dan, you are right about it being a grain problem in this case. Some of these pieces are really onery. The worst thing is that these are "intermediate stiles" between panels (muntins?), so both edges get the treatment.

David


The problems I've had with this have been on red oak. I was making two passes, but it still happened. I now make sure I'm going with the grain on the sticking cut. That seems to have cured the problem. I haven't tried the zero clearance fence insert. I'll have to give that a whirl.

[David Rose]

Hey Greg! Which "table saw"? The miter or the band? :confused: Ohhh, you mean the one with the big cast iron table... Yeah, one of those might be handy. :D I just enlarged my bandsaw table again, so the space for one, if you could pry the bucks from my wallet, is now about one foot square. :D A slot cutter on the router might do the same thing. I may try that on some scrap before doing the front pieces.

David


Another possible solution would be to run it over the table saw...just relieve a little stress in the wood at the groove point before running the profile. I know it works well on panel stock but haven't tried it on rails and stiles.

[Lee Schierer]

I agree with the shallow climb cuts to eliminate the tearout.

Burning is greatly affected by cutter speed and cutter cutting edge relief. I find that my "less costly" router bits have less edge relief than their "more expensive" counterparts. I find that my "Craftsman","WoodTech" and "Viper" bits burn more readily than my Freud bits.

With cherry, you should see no burning as long as you keep it moving at a fair rate. It takes a couple of passes to get it right sometimes. Usually making two pasees will eliminate the buring and result in a smoother cut. Make the last one so it takes off a 1/32 or less so you can feed fairly fast.

[David Rose]

Lee, these bits are the Whiteside that took so long to get a set that would give a good profile. They aren't quite as sharp as some I've had, but as long as I don't linger they don't burn.

I'm new to cherry, but I want to learn to use it. Yeah, I know. Where have I been? :eek: I guess I'm really a "walnut" man. It tears out about as badly, but it takes a match to burn it. :D

So it sounds as if you are recommending three passes instead of two? One light climb cut, a "bulk" cut, then a light cleanup pass? If I have to... :o

David


I agree with the shallow climb cuts to eliminate the tearout.

Burning is greatly affected by cutter speed and cutter cutting edge relief. I find that my "less costly" router bits have less edge relief than their "more expensive" counterparts. I find that my "Craftsman","WoodTech" and "Viper" bits burn more readily than my Freud bits.

With cherry, you should see no burning as long as you keep it moving at a fair rate. It takes a couple of passes to get it right sometimes. Usually making two pasees will eliminate the buring and result in a smoother cut. Make the last one so it takes off a 1/32 or less so you can feed fairly fast.

[Tony Sade]

Maybe I'm missing something, but are you folks talking about taking climb cuts on the router table? I thought that was verboten. If so, and I'm not out to lunch on the alleged prohibition, are there safe ways to do this?

[David Rose]

Tony, very light climb cuts on the table, with a fence that can't move and good foam based push blocks are feasible and safe. I should add also that I give my full attention to it too. Well, I do with about any router cut. ;) This is not a time or place for any distraction though. Being a little "slow" sometimes, I tripple check all my settings.

David


Maybe I'm missing something, but are you folks talking about taking climb cuts on the router table? I thought that was verboten. If so, and I'm not out to lunch on the alleged prohibition, are there safe ways to do this?

[Lee Schierer]

Taking a climb cut with a very light material removal is not hazarous with a fence and good technique. It will save your piece of wood from tear out. Don't try to climb cut and remove all the material at once. Several light passes are a must when climb cutting.

Yes the router will want to "climb" and pull the wood through fast, so you have to have a good safe system of hold downs.

[Joseph N. Myers]

Dave,

To help with the burning, try a lube like Bostik"s Dricote (spray) or something like that.

(Thanks for defining SWIWTP. Its not in www.acronymfinder.com (http://www.acronymfinder.com) so I would have some trouble finding it for the "list of acronyms".)

Regards, Joe

[Keith Christopher]

I recommed 2 things from my experience


1) Zero clearance or climb cut- I have also done it in 2 passes one about 1/4 the way to the final cut (this requires a 0 clearance and following the grain)
2) Also use longer pieces I know it's a waste sometimes but you can usually get a good cross section that will be long enough.


Just my 2c.

Keith

[Steve Jenkins]

Usually that tearout starts right at the edge of the groove. if you make your first cut a climb cut only about 1/8-3/16 deep it should eliminate nearly all the tearout and not affect the fit of the tenon. After you get your fence all set for the final cut use a spacer on it to make the climb cuts. Steve

[David Rose]

Joe, that is an interesting idea. I've not "lubed" bit cutters before. It's done all the time with metal working tools, so why not... as long as the lube does not effect the wood adversely?

David


Dave,

To help with the burning, try a lube like Bostik"s Dricote (spray) or something like that.

(Thanks for defining SWIWTP. Its not in www.acronymfinder.com (http://www.acronymfinder.com) so I would have some trouble finding it for the "list of acronyms".)

Regards, Joe