Dancer's Pole?

[Bruce Wrenn]

I'm in the designing stages of building a "dancer's pole, similar to what is seen in a "gentleman's club." Only two problems, the dancers are older men, ( they don't have on any clothes, which isn't a pretty sight) and it's in a sauna. It is to help them get past heaters without falling. To have strength, the core of the pole needs to be a piece of stainless steel pipe. It has to be stainless to resist cleaning and disinfecting chemicals. To prevent burns (it's about 190 in the sauna), it has to be clad in an open pore wood (western ceder, Atlantic ceder, redwood, or cypress.) Because of the possibility of cracking, it has to be laminated. Here is the question- what glue would stand up to the heat? I know PVA's won't. Anybody got any experience. On Monday, I will contact Franlin International, makers of Tite Bond.

[John Harden]

Marine epoxy is what you're looking for. West Systems makes high quality products. I wouldn't trust anything else when the work will be exposed to steam, moisture and heat.

As the name implies, marine epoxy is approved for below the waterline in marine environments. Not much out there that's more harsh than sun, wind and salt water.

Regards,

John

P.S. - If you have to install it, ask triple for the labor, or insist on doing it at midnight on a Tuesday when the place is vacant....:rolleyes:

[Bruce Wrenn]

John, they leave at 9:45, and we go to work at 10:00. It takes an hour, for fans to cool the place down enough to work. A sauna is a "bear" to work in, hot and dry as any desert, and after cleaning, as hot and humid as any jungle. Only thing lacking is some polar bears (cold.) Nice thing is I have to build a "custom 8' lathe" to turn pole after it is laminated around SS pipe core. But this is the kind of jobs I get, which I like, as they pay VERY well. Price isn't the issue, but can you make it work. Plus I get to buy some very cool tools. Right now, I have a $1700, magnetic base drill resting on my table saw for a job that we are planning to do on Sunday night. Actual job should take less than 30 minutes, as it's only one hole. But it is an expensive hole, even though I borrowed the drill from my son.

[Paul Ryan]

Bruce, you had me real interested from the title.

[Rick Fisher]

This is a serious subject.. If you take a typical adhesive and put it into 190 degree heat, you run a huge risk of it off gassing .. It may not be fatal, but it could cause the whole sauna to smell of solvent each time it heats up.. Even if the adhesive holds, the customer wont be happy about the smell..

I think you need to do some testing.. You could set the oven to 200 .. when the wife isnt home.. lol.

I wouldn't just trust some salesman's advice.. I think you run a risk on this one, unless you positive..

[Rick Fisher]

Sorry, this will be a long post... but it is relevant to the OP..


September 17, 2008 (http://www.1888pressrelease.com/09-17-2008.html) - Buena Park , CA – Won Lee, vice president of PLH Products, manufacturer (http://www.1888pressrelease.com/health-mate-sauna-exec-licks-glue-used-in-construction-to-pr-pr-73518.html#) of Health Mate saunas, wants people to know that his far infrared dry saunas are safe and do not have toxic chemicals, and to prove it he licked the adhesive used on the wood in the construction process.

The accompanying photo (http://thatprguy.com/GlueWon4b.jpg) shows Lee licking the adhesive at the Health Mate factory, proving the glue is non-toxic.

“Many cheaper, fly-by-night companies
http://kona.kontera.com/javascript/lib/imgs/grey_loader.gif
(http://www.1888pressrelease.com/health-mate-sauna-exec-licks-glue-used-in-construction-to-pr-pr-73518.html#)use unsafe adhesives or just don't know what is in their adhesive,” said Lee. “With this picture, Health Mate can prove that our glue is non-toxic. PLH Products takes the greatest care in bringing the finest products to our consumers that are safe and reliable.”

A sauna made from toxic glue can be dangerous because the heat from the sauna can release the toxic chemicals into the air, and people using the sauna can breathe those toxic fumes.

There are many reasons people are putting a Health Mate far infrared sauna in their home (http://www.1888pressrelease.com/health-mate-sauna-exec-licks-glue-used-in-construction-to-pr-pr-73518.html#), such as the health and wellness benefits, to reduce stress, and for pain relief.

Studies have shown that a far infrared sauna helps to lower diastolic blood pressure, improve heart function, and increase blood circulation, while customers (http://www.1888pressrelease.com/health-mate-sauna-exec-licks-glue-used-in-construction-to-pr-pr-73518.html#) have declared that the Health Mate helps ease the pain from fibromyalgia and arthritis. Regular use of the sauna detoxifies the body from the chemicals and heavy metal toxins through sweating, which prevents illness and disease, and strengthens the immune system.

Additional information about the benefits of a sauna can be found on the company’s web site at http://www.HealthMateSauna.com

“Since 1979, Health Mate has proudly served as the benchmark in the industry, innovating with the latest technology to provide quality far infrared home saunas, ideal for deep relaxation and soothing comfort, as well as health and healing. We are the largest far infrared sauna manufacturer in the world by sales volume,” said Lee.

About Health Mate Saunas:
Health Mate saunas have been manufactured and sold in the United States by PLH Products since 1979. Company headquarters are in Buena Park, CA with offices around the world and over 300 distributors in the United States

[Peter Quinn]

I'm wondering if adhesive is necessary at all? Is it possible to create a coopered pole joined with dovetail keys of some sort that won't rely on adhesive for its connection?

[David Cefai]

On the plus side, Epoxy Resins are unlikely to contain much solvent, if any. They work by setting, not drying.

However most epoxies start to soften at about 80 deg C. Given that it would be rather emabarassing if the glue fails while some elderly gent is clinging to it.........

I have tried to fix cooking pot lid handles with Araldite Epoxy Resin several times and can attest to the fact that the stuff softens. I recently tried to find out whether Gorilla Glue could stand the heat. No hard numbers show up on their website but a couple of people have assured me that it resists beyond 100 deg C. Don't know about solvent though.

The OP might like to try a couple of test joints "live" in the sauna.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Removed by moderator

Any metal, plastic, or closed pore wood will conduct heat fast enough to get third degree burns- instantly!

[Bob Barkto]

Two adhesives come to mind.

Phenol resorcinol. Waterproof and resists heat well. Non toxic when fully cured.

Casein. Resists heat extremely well, better than most any other adhesive, and is non-toxic. Some formulations are nearly as water proof as resin glues. Has a number of other advantages too. It would be my first choice for this application.



I'm in the designing stages of building a "dancer's pole, similar to what is seen in a "gentleman's club." Only two problems, the dancers are older men, ( they don't have on any clothes, which isn't a pretty sight) and it's in a sauna. It is to help them get past heaters without falling. To have strength, the core of the pole needs to be a piece of stainless steel pipe. It has to be stainless to resist cleaning and disinfecting chemicals. To prevent burns (it's about 190 in the sauna), it has to be clad in an open pore wood (western ceder, Atlantic ceder, redwood, or cypress.) Because of the possibility of cracking, it has to be laminated. Here is the question- what glue would stand up to the heat? I know PVA's won't. Anybody got any experience. On Monday, I will contact Franlin International, makers of Tite Bond.

[Josiah Bartlett]

Why does this pole need to wrap a metal column anyway? Why not just turn one out of solid wood? If it really needs more strength, then bore it for the rod. Then you don't need any glue.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Why does this pole need to wrap a metal column anyway? Why not just turn one out of solid wood? If it really needs more strength, then bore it for the rod. Then you don't need any glue.Solid wood could have internal cracks that could fail under repeated heat / cool cycle. Because it's my design, there is a liability issue involved. I can just hear the lawyer saying to the jury, "He should have know that the heat would cause it to crack." I'm not sure how to bore an eight foot long hole and get it centered. Got any suggestions as how to.

[Rob Russell]

I'm not sure that boring a hole in an 8' column is the way to go. The only way to guarantee even expansion/contraction is to bore the dead center of a log. I'd think that the wood would crack radially.

[Gerry Werth]

Have you looked at the silicone glue/caulk. I believe the silicone is resistant to high temps, but would need to look at a tube again to be sure. Also don't have any idea on off gassing at high temps. Would have to experiment with that one.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Could you build a segmented pole using inset fasteners and plug the holes and exclude adhesive altogether?

[CW McClellan]

Have you thought of wrapping the S/S pole with 3/4" or 1" hemp rope --no wood used or expansion :D

[daniel lane]

Have you thought of wrapping the S/S pole with 3/4" or 1" hemp rope --no wood used or expansion :D

That just sounds scratchy.

d

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Resoircinol.
It can tolerate boiling.

Epoxies soften in heat. In fact if you do a mast and epoxy it and take it to the tropics you boat's mast will delaminate in the sun.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Have you thought of wrapping the S/S pole with 3/4" or 1" hemp rope --no wood used or expansion :DI haven't, but the rope could absorb cleaning / disinfecting solutions. Could actually cause a "steam burn."

[Scott T Smith]

Bruce, rather than using glue, what about bolting two wood sleves together? That eliminates all potential of softening, outgassing, etc.

Imagine a "pipe" that is made from wood. Now imagine taking a bandsaw and splitting the pipe down the middle. The ID of the "wood pipe" is equal to the OD of your stainless steel center pipe.

The wood sections could be 3' long, or thereabouts, and probably made from either 8/4 or 12/4 material. You could throughbolt them together through the pipe with SS fasteners, using a recessed bevel head screw.

The "wood pipe" could be made on a shaper or in a moulder. You could mill a tongue and groove on the sections of the pipe where they mated up, to help keep them consistent over time.

Scott

[Frank Drew]

I'm not sure how to bore an eight foot long hole and get it centered. Got any suggestions as how to.

You could use a piece of rebar, allthread, or steel pipe inside the column to prevent the pole from breaking; you don't have to bore a hole, just cut a groove along the center line of two matching pieces of wood, so that when you glue them together the resulting square hole is big enough for your reinforcing piece to slide into. Turn the cured glueup round if you have access to a long lathe, or do most of the work on a shaper, table saw, or whatever, then use planes and sanding to refine and finish the shape.

[Jeff Duncan]

I wonder if switching to a more moisture resistant and stronger wood could solve the problems of gluing dissimilar materials together? I'm thinking making the pole out of solid Teak or Ipe may be a better way to go.

good luck,
JeffD

[Jon McElwain]

Bruce, rather than using glue, what about bolting two wood sleves together? That eliminates all potential of softening, outgassing, etc.

Imagine a "pipe" that is made from wood. Now imagine taking a bandsaw and splitting the pipe down the middle. The ID of the "wood pipe" is equal to the OD of your stainless steel center pipe.

The wood sections could be 3' long, or thereabouts, and probably made from either 8/4 or 12/4 material. You could throughbolt them together through the pipe with SS fasteners, using a recessed bevel head screw.

The "wood pipe" could be made on a shaper or in a moulder. You could mill a tongue and groove on the sections of the pipe where they mated up, to help keep them consistent over time.

Scott

I wonder if you could turn a solid wood pole 8' long, then split it down the middle the long way on the bandsaw. Next run the halves across a tablesaw blade at an angle the same way you make a cove cut for molding (incramentally).

Might check out CA glue? No idea how it does with heat and humidity, but I bet it does all right.

[Gregg Feldstone]

Why not make a multi-sided wooden sheath to fit around the pole....like a tall narrow planter box....and put it together with fasteners and some type of adhesive. You could use biscuits or dominos for more strength. You could have long handles welded to the steel interior and the hand-hold parts covered with a good "rubber" insulation material for a good grip. I'm sure I've seen something like this in a sauna before.