Since everyone is doing glass...

[Dan Hintz]

I just realized I haven't posted any of my work on here, so what better item to post then what I've been dinkin' with lately, glass...

Glass, painted black on back, lasered, painted gold. Ended up lasering twice as I didn't increase the power enough for the paint.

[Dee Gallo]

Beautiful dragon, Dan! Can I steal it? Is that filled with paint or rub-n-buf?

:) dee

[Frank Corker]

Very effective. Good work Dan.

[Paul Brinkmeyer]

This is not artistic like Dan's
But I get libby shot glasses for 25 cents at the local 99 cent store and put info on it. Usually the logo or name of a business I want to do work with and give them away. Just this week I got an order for more from one I dropped of. Owner looked at it for about 10 seconds before he ordered more.

I also get mirror plates, round and square, from the candle area in Wally mart, back engrave and give away the same way, and I include a plate hanger. I have seen most of them proudly displayed in most of the stores I have given them to. I never have taken pictures of the mirrors yet for some reason. (Maybe because I am not very good with the camera?)

Thanks for all the ideas I get here.

[Steve Clarkson]

Dan,

That is VERY cool.

[Dan Hintz]

Dee,

I'll send all of the dragon files I have in a few minutes. Amy had one a wooden tri-fold privacy screen that I stuck in the corner last year, waiting for a trip to the trash. It was filled with pieces of glass, awaiting new pictures, but it no longer matched our decor, so I swiped the glass.

I gave the sheet a good cleaning with alcohol and painted it with some rattle-can flat black. Lasered, then rattle-can sprayed again with gold. My poor photography skills didn't make the fleck in the gold pop out, unfortunately.

On a side note, I picked up some 12x12 tile sheets that consisted of 1x3 glass tiles. The intent was to etch the design into the back color, then repaint, making them small business cards for Amy. I could turn the white coating over the paint black, but for the life of me I couldn't etch it off... eventually I turned the power up so high the tile shattered into several pieces (and scaring the crap out of me, thinking a piece hit the lens). I haven't decided what to do with them yet...

[Martin Boekers]

Looks great Dan!

Any special paint that adheres better to glass?

Thanks

[Dee Gallo]

Dee,

I'll send all of the dragon files I have in a few minutes. Amy had one a wooden tri-fold privacy screen that I stuck in the corner last year, waiting for a trip to the trash. It was filled with pieces of glass, awaiting new pictures, but it no longer matched our decor, so I swiped the glass.

I gave the sheet a good cleaning with alcohol and painted it with some rattle-can flat black. Lasered, then rattle-can sprayed again with gold. My poor photography skills didn't make the fleck in the gold pop out, unfortunately.

On a side note, I picked up some 12x12 tile sheets that consisted of 1x3 glass tiles. The intent was to etch the design into the back color, then repaint, making them small business cards for Amy. I could turn the white coating over the paint black, but for the life of me I couldn't etch it off... eventually I turned the power up so high the tile shattered into several pieces (and scaring the crap out of me, thinking a piece hit the lens). I haven't decided what to do with them yet...


Thanks, Dan, I can really use those dragons!

That is a scary story about the glass tiles - I wonder what caused them to shatter? Too much power, obviously, but was there metal in them? They commonly used metal to color glass. It would have been a VERY cool business card.

cheers, dee

[Dan Hintz]

Martin, though it came with the house (found it in the basement when I moved in with Amy years back), it was probably the cheapest rattle-can paint around.



Dee, some dragons are on their way (about 5MB worth), uncompressed CDRs. I have another 65MB, but no compression program other than 7ZIP (a freebie compressor that does a better job than PKZip). If you want to download 7Zip, I'll send them along.

I think the tiles were tempered glass as the edges were wavy rather than jagged. I'm considering putting them in a shallow container of water to keep them cool and trying again. I ended up making her one by lasing on the front of the tile at a mild 20P/100S.

[onur cakir]

Great work ! Consider using this tech. for making glass tiles ;)

[Scott Shepherd]

the tile shattered into several pieces (and scaring the crap out of me, thinking a piece hit the lens). I haven't decided what to do with them yet...

Mosaic's :)

[Darren Null]

no compression program other than 7ZIP
You can do .zip with 7zip too.
Right-click --> 7-Zip --> Add to *.zip
...and you still get most of the compression goodness if you have it switched to 'Ultra' in the compression settings.

EDIT: Missed a bit out here:
In Windows Explorer, highlight the files you want to compress and THEN
Right-click --> 7-Zip --> Add to *.zip

The first time you use 7zip for .zip, it's best to use the 'Add to archive' option, because that brings up a screen of options. If you select 'Ultra' for compression level, it'll stay on that thereafter. Then the method above for quick .zip/.7z compression.

[Dan Hintz]

Guess I should have looked at it more closely. I "tricked" the OS into doing it for me by copying an old ZIP file into the directory, drag-and-dropping the new files into the ZIP file, then deleting the stuff I didn't want. It wasn't pretty, but it worked.

[Tom Bull]

Dan, if they are tempered they will break into many small pieces with relatively square edges. If it broke into a few pieces with knife-like edges it is not tempered. Wavy edges in a piece that small would not be indicative of tempering. I can think of no reason to temper glass that is going to be stuck to a wall. It would also make it impossible to cut to size as needed.
When you look through the tiles do they seem reflective or metallic? My guess is they are coated with something that is very durable and caustic resistant so they can be installed with thin set mortar.

[Dan Hintz]

Tom,

I expected sharp edges for the reason you sited (the pieces were much larger than the expected 1/8"-1/4"), but they were relatively smooth and wavy... I don't believe I could have cut my fingers on them if I had tried. It was a 1"x3" tile that broke into 3-4 pieces, so each piece wasn't overly large. Since they were bathroom tiles, my thinking was making them tempered in case of breakage to prevent serious cuts, but I cannot say with any certainty tile companies would go that route. Your point about lacking the ability to trim to size, however, kind of clinches the deal for me... not tempered.

I don't have any in front of me, but the tiles were roughly 3/16" thick clear glass with a solid-color backing. On top of that backing was a very durable white coating of unknown material... that white coating took some real power to mark, and it did mark from light brown to black, but it never etched away before shattering.

If memory serves, I started at 100S/20P and worked up with the power from there (using a graduated grayscale chart). I know I hit 100P and started slowing it down in an attempt to get an etch... I may have been as slow as 20S before it finally shattered after a handful of carriage passes. That was some tough stuff! I may try taking a pass or two with the sander to thin it out and try again. I'm not trying to do make a product that brings in the dough, I just thought it would make for some interesting conversation pieces to hand out.

[Tom Bull]

My guess is that it is a baked on finish of some sort because glass usually rejects anything else after it has expanded and contracted a few times. If I were going to try to apply anything other than a baked on finish I would definately want to sandblast it first to give the surface some tooth for the finish to stick to.

[Dan Hintz]

Either I'm misunderstanding you, or we're not on the same page. This is what a profile of the tile looks like after it has been pulled from the netting (i.e., this is directly from the store, no extra coatings have been applied by me):


============================== <-- White backing
------------------------------ <-- Color
GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG <-- Glass
GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
The intent is to laser away a design in the back coating and color layer, spray with a different color, and enjoy the unique piece. This is the same idea as what Onur has posted pics of on several occasions with larger tiles.

I'll be darned if I can even get through that white coating to the color layer... it is some seriously tough stuff. To see the tile itself fail before the coating is a scary sight.

[Tom Bull]

Yeah, very tough. The part about the sandblasting was just "typing out loud", sort of like thinking out loud. My main point is that as a baked on finish it is probably a fired on ceramic and is going to be basically one with the substrate. Something like spandrel glass used to cover the space between floors in high rise buildings that are all glass.

[Viktor Voroncov]

Dan, have one question. When you engrave black paints from back, you can't engrave ONLY paint. So I expect that you slightly (at least) matt glass surface. After applying gold paint on engraved matt glass HOW IT LOOKS? You can put here macro pictures, described detailed in words, but for me will be enough something like PERFECT, GOOD, NOT GOOD TO SELL and etc :)

[Dan Hintz]

Viktor,

If I remember this weekend, I'll pull the tile out and take a close-up shot... from memory, it looked great. If there was any hazing of the glass, it didn't show up at all in the final product.

[Viktor Voroncov]

The my customers problem is that when they engrave usual but cheaper as possible window glass, engraving areas are not the same and this is problem of glass (may be???). And I afraid that after applying of paints problems of engraving could be even more visible. Will do some tests tomorrow, as your technology have a lot of applications. Thank's for sharing!

[Michael Hunter]

Viktor -

The type of paint sold for models and small jobs has the pigment ground very fine (much more so than normal house paint).
I have found that these paints "soak into" the engraved surface of the glass and eliminate the milky/frosted effect : when viewed through the glass they look great.

The paint I use is Rustin's "Small Job" (which comes in sensible 250ml cans), but others such as Japlaq are also OK, as are the paints sold in model shops for polystyrene kits (expensive as these come in tiny 10ml cans).

[Dan Hintz]

The glass panel is probably the cheapest soda glass one can buy... it came in a tri-fold, stand up picture display made in China. The gold paint used was the cheapest rattle can I could buy, and the black was the cheapest rattle can the previous house's owner could buy 15 years ago (found it in the old workshop).

The original pic on this thread was taken with a point-n-shoot camera, and since then I have moved up to a proper DSLR. A new pic may be in order...

[Jeff Belany]

Speaking of glass tiles -- I bought a few 4x4 glass that had a coating on the back (so you don't see the mastic when you install them) and I assumed (we all know what that means) I could remove the coating and laser the back. Well, that sure didn't work -- not sure what the coating is but it sure is tough!! I lasered it at pretty high power and reran it 3 times and barely got an image you could see. Sure sounded like a good idea when I saw them in the store!

Chalk that one up.

Jeff in northern Wisconsin

[Martin Boekers]

I guess that because the tile needs to be glued to a wall are substrate
the back paint has to be really tough so it doesn't pull of of the mount.

Then again just guessing here.

[Dan Hintz]

Jeff,

Note my posts earlier in this thread about the small 1x4 tiles... I ended up making the tile explode from too much heat before it actually cut through the surface. I do wonder, though, how it would handle the HPDFO.

[Andrew Mammoliti]

Dan did you mask the back before lasering it? with transfer tape?

Thanks Andrew

[Dan Hintz]

Nope... no need to.

[Andrew Mammoliti]

ok what power and speed settings for the dragon. Did you not get flaking?

[Dan Hintz]

I doubt I wrote it down as it was a one-off, but it wouldn't be hard to recreate. Also, the variable thickness of the paint will determine the power needed.

I'm not sure what you're asking about flaking, but the piece still looks as good today as when I first made it.

[Andrew Mammoliti]

what I mean by flaking is usually when doing glass of any kind it is common to mask with paper to prevent over heating and chipping or flaking.

[Dan Hintz]

Masking does nothing for chipping/flaking (other than slightly reduce the power getting to the glass). That is caused by overheating, usually by using too high of a dpi during engraving. I'm typically around 60P for glass etching, but I imagine I was even less for removing the paint.

[Bill Cunningham]

Regarding that glass tile with the tough backing.. I picked up a few of these at H.D. a few years ago, and thought this ought to look nice when reverse engraved.. Like the others here, the laser just discoloured the back.. My Neighbor the sign maker gave me a 10" wide 1/4 roll of a U.V. film she uses to laminate onto the surface of solvent printed signs. I stuck some of this on the back, using it as a mask, I lasered through it, then put it in the sandblast cabinet. The sandblaster did a pretty good job of cutting through that tough backing to the glass below.. This was a while back, I'll see if I can find the tile tomorrow, and take a picture. General line art and text should work OK, but the res. for a photo is just not there, and that's what I wanted to use it for..

[Nick Koprivica]

Dan how did you paint only the parts that were lasered with spray paint?

[Dan Hintz]

Magic :D




Seriously, though... I sprayed the back of the tile with cheap rattle-can black, lasered through it, then coated again with gold. No masking.

I suppose you could laser through a mask, paint your gold, then remove the mask and paint again with black... but you would want to make sure your mask is very tight to the surface to prevent bleeding.

Both have their advantages, but either way is acceptable if done correctly, it just depends upon the circumstances.

[Terry Swift]

Dan,

If you can send those dragons my way or any other art you have - that'll be appreciated.

Are you talking about the glass tiles you can get from Home Depot, etc. that come in colors like green, blue, whatever. I had looked at those one night and thought they would be cool to laser stuff on; but didn't get any at the time. Will have to look into them.

Sounds like a great business card - a bit bulky; but way different.

I like the the shot glass, etc. ideas for free giveaways. Low cost, but high potential when given out.

[Joe De Medeiros]

I'm pretty sure that the glass is fused onto a ceramic base with glaze for color, the ceramic makes it able to adhere better.

[Christian Weiss]

Dan,

Would you be willing to email me your dragon files? My email is entrepreneuroh@aol.com.

Thanks very much

Chris Weiss