Any recommendations for a shaper

[David Prince]

Keeping a realistic budget in mind. Does anyone want to recommend a shaper?

[John Harden]

You might make a checklist of what capabilities/features you want. For example:


Horsepower - how much? 1.5-5HP models are common. More is better if you intend to spin large shaper heads.
Table size - how big?
Do you want/need the spindle to tilt? If so, backwards is better and safer, but not easy to find on "affordable" units.
Spindle size? 3/4", 1 1/4", 30MM, etc.?
Speeds. How easy is it to change speeds on the models you look at?
Interchangeable spindles? Do you need this? If so, how quick and easy is this to do on various models you'll look at?
Fence and guard system - Not all are created equally. Some are quite nice and others, not so much...
Power feeder. Many folks won't turn on a shaper without using the feeder. Will you want/need one? If so, keep this in mind as you'll need a place to mount it. This is where bigger, more massive tables help.
New or used? Shapers are not terribly complicated. Lot's of good used ones out there for a bargain.
Sliding table - Do you want or need one?
Router spindle or collet? Most shapers max out at 10-12K rpm. Great for larger router bits, but not so much for smaller ones. Very few will spin bits 20K rpm plus. You may not care.
After the sale accessories and support may be key to you too. Some folks need additional accessory tables, jigs, or other such things. Even if your brand doesn't offer them, quite often you can buy Aigner stuff and use it with little to no modifications on whatever shaper you buy.

I can't offer a suggestion on a brand without knowing your needs, but your thoughts on these questions will hlep you narrow down your search.

Regards,

John

[Myk Rian]

Get with Mitchell. Maybe the 2 of you can work something out.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=123464

[Rod Sheridan]

David, as John indicated you need to tell us a lot more about what you want, and what you want to do with it.

I just ordered a Hammer B3 Winner for example.

- 4 speeds

- 4 HP with electric braking

- rearward tilting spindle ( 1 1/4")

- sliding table

- power feeder

- sanding spindle

- table extension

My application is hobby use, making mouldings, edge profiles, pattern copying, rebating and grooving in solid wood and making raised panels.

Regards, Rod.

[Johnnyy Johnson]

I bought a small Jet to begin with. I did not like the small table top and was very disappointed. I learned that if you really want to do nice work you need to buy the right machines. I sold my shaper,portable planner and bench 6" jointer. I now have the large Delta Shaper, Jointer and Planer. My point...buy the right size and if you cant afford it, wait till you can.
I had to take a lose on money, but I am happy with what I have now.

[Peter Quinn]

John's suggestions are wonderful. Work through that check list to focus your needs. There are a wide range of shapers in the world, from a few hundred dollar 1 1/2HP models to industrial CNC capable machines in the 12HP and up range. Lots of options. I will add that as you grow to appreciate what a shaper can do aspirations tend to grow, so if budget allows it may not make sense to get the least you can get away with now. Leave a little room for growth in your choice, or get the most machine you can afford and imagine you may eventually use. And save some money for cutters. Good ones are rather expensive and it may cost many times the price of the machine to develop a basic set of tooling with that will allow you to harness its full capacity. I had very little tooling for the first year I had my first shaper and it was frustrating.

PS, I am one person who does not consider a power feeder optional for many things, so give those some serious consideration. And if this is your first shaper, try to find some one local to teach you how to use it, it is not an over grown router table.

[Josiah Bartlett]

I find that even a Delta LD shaper with a 3/4 horse motor is nicer to use than the nicest router table I've ever tried. YMMV. You can always add extension tables to a shaper if you like all the other features.

[Steve Rowe]

Keeping a realistic budget in mind. Does anyone want to recommend a shaper?
Since we don't know what your realistic budget is or what you want to do with a shaper this is very difficult to answer. With respect to a shaper, if you intend on using it a lot, the cost of the shaper really becomes a small part of the equation as the real cost is in the tooling. That is, if you buy quality tooling.

John offers some good suggestions. Having had several shapers, I wouldn't settle for anything less than a 3 HP with 5 HP preferred. Some other considerations are whether you want a tilting head. This offers a lot of options for profiles that you won't get on a fixed spindle. I frequently use the tilting head with a straight cutter to bevel edges or cut angled grooves. If you intend on doing face milling with large profiles, avoid the interchangable spindles. In my experience, these offer less capacity under the nut and your machine could limit your abilities.
Steve

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

in a word: No.

Keeping a realistic budget in mind.
That's concept One
and

Does anyone want to recommend a shaper?That's concept Two

You can't hold those two concepts in the same universe.

Shapers are expensive anything under 3 hp at 60 - 80 percent performance is underpowered and the tooling oh my you might as well be buying diamond jewelry.

It would be way far better to find a way to make the profiles you want another way until you can toss the cost consideration aside.

[Rick Fisher]

If your on a tight budget.. Grizzly always had a 3hp shaper that seemed like a good deal..

http://www.grizzly.com/products/3-HP-Shaper/G1026

Bear in mind that the cost of the cutters quickly becomes more than the shaper..

You may also want to add a feeder .. if you do, few people regret buying a 1hp.. Dont get a tiny one..

[Mike Heidrick]

GREAT advice here. Don't under estimate the fence quality in this purchase.

There are two great books you should really pick up.

Lonnie Bird's The Shaper Book (http://www.amazon.com/Shaper-Book-Lonnie-Bird/dp/1561581208)

and

Cliffee's Shaper Handbook (http://www.amazon.com/Shaper-Handbook-Roger-W-Cliffe/dp/0941936694/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b)

Will be the best $30 shaper research you can do right now.

DO THIS BEFORE buying a small shaper IMO unless you want a router table instead.

[ian maybury]

I'm no expert, but i recently ordered and am awaiting delivery of a Hammer F3 shaper. http://www.ukhammer.co.uk/gb-en/products/spindle-moulders/f3.html&zoom=true

My rationale was a follows (but my fingers are still crossed since i've not used a spindle before):

Entry level professional quality.
Quite powerful for single phase (4hp)
Decent fence
Tilting spindle
Reversing spindle
Sliding table
Optional sliding table lengths
Drop on table extensions available
Dial type 1/10mm height readout a low cost option
Lots of accessory fences, sleds, tooling etc available if needed.

I bought a six profile cutter head set and a rebating cutter as a starter on tooling....

[Philip Rodriquez]

Keeping a realistic budget in mind. Does anyone want to recommend a shaper?




It is easy to make a case for a large tablesaw, jointer, planer and bandsaw. However, the same logic (IMHO) does not fall to shaper tables.

Do you already have a router table? What specific task do you need to have a shaper for?

Myself, I have a 3HP shaper and a router table. My router table gets 95% of the use.

[Rod Sheridan]

Ian, I'm in the process of replacing a General cabinet saw and spindle moulder with a Hammer B3 Winner.

I've kept my Hammer HC-308 feeder and most of my tooling.

The most versatile tooling is a cutter head with HSS knives, I use that a lot, exceptional cut quality in solid wood, and the knives are inexpensive....Rod.

[Peter Quinn]

It is easy to make a case for a large tablesaw, jointer, planer and bandsaw. However, the same logic (IMHO) does not fall to shaper tables.

Do you already have a router table? What specific task do you need to have a shaper for?

Myself, I have a 3HP shaper and a router table. My router table gets 95% of the use.

I would have to disagree with you there Philip. I run a couple of 7HP and 9HP SAC shapers at work, and they are some of the smoothest machines I have used period. Old and basic, but big and smooth. For curved work a heavy ribbed 4"X35"X45" table is beautiful, moldings come off chatter free regardless of species and depth of cut. Passage doors are a breeze. Raised panels don't even phase it. It will swing an 8" window cutter set no problem, or a 4"X 4 knife corrugated molding head. I would agree that not everyone will need an industrial based shaper, but I'd argue that they perform better even for small work like cabinet doors.

I have a Delta 3HP at home and use other 5HP shapers at work, and have pushed each to the edge of its capacities. A 3HP has plenty of capacity to do many things, but a shaper is in my mind one of the clearest cases of bigger being better for many things one might do with a shaper. Some of the things I have done on the big SAC would not even be remotely possible or advisable on a small machine.

I would love to have something that big in my own shop, and I found one once used that would have made sense financially, but my shop is in a basement and the thought of lowering a #1000 machine down the bilco is spookier than Halloween.

[Mike Heidrick]

Phillip - give your shaper a chance. I think you will find that once you own the right cutters you will use the shaper every chance you get.

BIG differences in shapers out there. Mass of a 1000lb machine makes shaping super smooth. Add in a feeder or a sliding table and it gets real convienent to use a shaper. Its amazing the smooth cuts a large correctly set up shaper with good tooling can make.

[Rick Fisher]

I have a customer who just bought a "Unique" brand Cabinet door shaper..

It has a dial for the 4 different cutters.. All cutters are mounted on the spindle at the same time..
Pnumatic overhead clamps, sliding table.. 10HP PH3 Motor..

It will cut a raised panel door in just a few minutes.. Amazing machine..
The cutters are 9" Great Lakes brand .. It weighs approx 1800 lbs..

He claims it cost about $30,000 .. he makes doors for a living. so it makes sense..

All shapers are not created equally..

[David Prince]

Thanks for the information. I have a router table and the profile size is limited, so I am looking for something with more possibilities. I think I may be better off to wait and find something a bit larger than just a 1 hp - 1/2 spindle.

[Greg Portland]

Depending on your usage model, a planer/moulder may work as an intermediate solution. The tooling for a moulder (using a planer knife head) is significantly cheaper than quality shaper bits. I have a planer/moulder/ripsaw/drum sander combo machine and have been pleased with the results.

[William M Johnson]

I am sure that you guys with the big shapers are correct, but I have a little one that has worked great. It is the small Shop Fox, but I have two modifications that I think are really important.

1. Large Table extension - I think this was about $100 or so and makes the table much larger and more useable. It is a Shop Fox accessory
2. Small Shop Fox power feed. It is light enough to move between my PM66 and the shaper.

For shaper work I am completly satisfied and believe it or not don't want a bigger one. I have made countless raised panel doors with this thing. I do have a Shop Fox molder so that is what I use for many of the things that you big guys use your shapers for.

My shop space is limited shop portability is a must. I am sure that the bigger ones are better, safer etc. but I have no regrets

[J.R. Rutter]

I have a customer who just bought a "Unique" brand Cabinet door shaper....

Those are really nice for doing arched tops. The dual axis linear guides are sweet. Not set up for feed through jobs though, unless you buy the option, so you are limited by table travel (60" or so). There are so many shops going out of business that you can easily pick one up for 1/2 of that original price :-)

9" panel cutters make sense, but the sticking cutter is usually smaller so that you can do arches on shorter rails. Great Lakes makes excellent insert tools.