Huge Column restoration issue

[Lewis Ehrhardt]

Here’s the problem:
Have four round columns made from cypress. They're 18 feet tall,, 16 inches in diameter, and have a wall thickness of about 1-1/2 inches. These are straight columns (no tapering).
Problem: paint contractor had one of his guys taking off the paint with a handheld planer. He made many flat spots and left gouges as much as a 1/4 inch deep in some places.

To restore their roundness will require as much as 1/4 inch of cypress to be removed in some areas to remove the flat spots and gouges.

My question: Any suggestions on how I can restore the roundness to these columns without physically removing them from the house? Thanks Lewis

[Frank Drew]

1) Shoot the painter and his knucklehead boss.

2) It's going to be a lot of work no matter what, but you might make a large-ish sanding form that matches the curve of the column and start with really coarse sandpaper, like 40 grit.

3) Consider filling in the low areas with bondo, or similar, then sand and paint.

[Jim Galvin]

Look at www.abatron.com (http://www.abatron.com) for a product called WoodEpox I think it would be easier to fill the gouges and build up the flat spots then try and take 1/4" offf the whole column.

I hope you got rid of the paint contractor....

Jim

[Dick Bringhurst]

Just a WAG but use some epoxy/bondo to fill in and use a templet of the right radius to smooth out. Dick B,

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

+1 to all the suggestions above (especially the ones concerning the painting contractor!).

I'd be very wary of trying to get them "round" again by sanding, etc. The fill/bondo/epoxy approach might work. Also - if it's just going to be painted, what about gluing a thin veneer around the entire column? Glue, fill any seam with bondo, and then paint. voila, nice and smooth.

[Thomas Pender]

The painter is a relative, call him up and tell him you expect him to make it right and put the worry on him. Alternatively, tell him to have his insurer (builder's risk, etc) call you and discuss the damage and how they are gonna make it right.

Sometimes we accept responsbility for doing things that should be the responsibility of others. In this case, unless you have no confidence in the painter's integrity, this is his worry. Then, heaven forfend, sue him in small claims court for your damages - it is what they exist for. But, you will need some pictures, receipts, etc.

I agree with the sentiment that taking 1/4" off will not work. You can build it up lightly with epoxy and filler - like Timbermate using a mold and sand it each time. In the old days they would replace the entire thing or patch it and call it fine - several coats of lead based paint later no one would be able to tell.

[Rob Russell]

I agree with forcing the painting contractor to make good on it. It's not your responsibility to fix the columns. If the paint contractor can't do it himself, he can hire someone to do it..

[Bob Lloyd]

+1 for the epoxy repair. It can be done in situ.

[Paul Atkins]

Thomas, well said. I see so many people get out of being responsible for thing they've done. This just puts the problem on others.

[george wilson]

I've had to deal with painter idiots too,twice.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Just a WAG but use some epoxy/bondo to fill in and use a templet of the right radius to smooth out. Dick B,

I would agree with Dick's approach - one caveat/suggestion to add. I have done something similar (but not on the gimongous scale of your columns). The lesson I learned is that the polyester fillers (aka bondo) come in many different hardnesses. I advise you get something with a hardness - softness, actually - as close to the wood as you can, which will be pretty soft. The reason is that you will fill the voids, and when you go to sand it down, the adjacent wood goes first while you work on the hard filler. No matter how diligent I was, I could not keep this from happening - you may be better at it than me, though.

No experience with epoxies - don't know about the range of durometers there.

Re: painting contractor. Don't shoot him. Hang him from a column as a warning to the next contractor.

[Lewis Ehrhardt]

thanks for all the insight. The contractor can no longer work in our town, no integrity. At one time, was a good painter, but drugs did him in.

Gonna take a whole heap of bondo.

[Neal Clayton]

Here’s the problem:
Have four round columns made from cypress. They're 18 feet tall,, 16 inches in diameter, and have a wall thickness of about 1-1/2 inches. These are straight columns (no tapering).
Problem: paint contractor had one of his guys taking off the paint with a handheld planer. He made many flat spots and left gouges as much as a 1/4 inch deep in some places.

To restore their roundness will require as much as 1/4 inch of cypress to be removed in some areas to remove the flat spots and gouges.

My question: Any suggestions on how I can restore the roundness to these columns without physically removing them from the house? Thanks Lewis


call an attorney, seriously.

at least take a shot in small claims. you know how much it would cost to have those reproduced? yea, that's how much he owes you...

i would go with the epoxy instead of the bondo. bondo can trap moisture and cause more issues over time. epoxies will bind much better.

[Kent A Bathurst]

...... bondo can trap moisture and cause more issues over time......

Might be wrong here, but I had always thought that "bondo" was just a form of the more generic polyester paste/fillers, which is used in construction of most/many recreational boats. So .....?? Might be missing something here.

[Henry Ambrose]

No Bondo!!

That stuff is made to go on metal or fiberglass substrates. It won't stay on wood. You'll be sorry you ever even thought of using it in a year or two if not sooner. I've followed up many a job where others have used bondo type materials and I usually find a rotted mess surrounding a glob of plastic material. Don't do this.

Use something like West System epoxy that is made for wood. Start by painting on a coat of mixed resin and hardener. Next, add some filler to the remaining mix in your cup until you get it to a thick peanut butter consistency. That's what you fill and fair with. If there are large areas to fill you might do it in multiple steps. (larger than about 1/2 inch thick) Too much material will bubble and blister from the heat of curing.

The West System site has loads of info on doing these kind of projects.
http://westsystem.com/ss/

Do it right and its a permanent repair.

[Neal Clayton]

Might be wrong here, but I had always thought that "bondo" was just a form of the more generic polyester paste/fillers, which is used in construction of most/many recreational boats. So .....?? Might be missing something here.

bondo's moisture trapping properties in between the air and surfaces of different moisture/temperature level are pretty well documented, even amongst the users of bondo for its marketed purpose (repairing holes in old metal car bodies).

http://rustyfenders.com/node/6



What you need to know, it is best to do bodyfiller when it is about 72 to 80 degrees. If the metal is cold, the filler will cure from the outside in possibly trapping moisture and resin possibly causing bubbling later on.and the thing that most makes it incompatible as a wood repair is it dries to a very rigid state. metal doesn't move nearly as much as wood with temperature/humidity changes. bondo is designed to give metal repairs consistency, it is far too rigid once cured to survive many seasons of wood movement.


http://www.historichomeworks.com/hhw/library/OHJEpoxy2004/OHJEpoxy2004.htm



Other Materials

I have noticed recently that many homeowners and tradespeople (and even a few writers and editors of national publications) are using the word "epoxy" in a generic sense to mean any resin used in the repair of wood, even when the resin is not epoxy. I suspect what they really mean is the method, not necessarily the material used. The method is to repair wood using a liquid or paste that hardens onto or into wood forming a “composite repair” where the resin is intimately associated with the original wood and added wood or other reinforcing materials. Strictly speaking, "epoxy" means a specific chemical system. Some wood repair products use resins and binders that are based on other, very different, chemical systems. (See Other Materials below) Perhaps "wood/resin composite repair" would be a more accurate phrase to describe these repairs, since it encompasses a wider range of materials.
The following repair products use resins and binders that are based chemistry systems other than epoxy.
Bondo(tm) Auto Body Filler(tm): Auto body workers know this product well. It's used to fill dents in sheet metal. It is hard and inflexible when cured. When used on wood it is likely to loosen and fall out due to the inevitable movement of exterior wood caused by changes in moisture content.
MR. MAC'S(tm) Wood Fix: This wood filler and repair system is based on a special cement, acrylic latex polymer, fillers and fiberglass cloth. The manufacturer says its high adhesion and flexibility prevent loosening due to wood movement. Unlike epoxies, it can be applied to damp wood and when
cured allows water vapor to pass through thin sections. The cured product is alkaline which, according to the manufacturer, prevents wood decay but in my opinion may also cause adhesion problems with alkyd resin paints.
Minwax(r) Wood Hardener and Wood Filler(tm): Wood Hardener is a consolidant that is 22% poly-ketone resin in an acetone-methene solvent. The solvent promotes penetration, but only the resin remains in the wood, the rest evaporates. Wood Filler is a two-part paste made of polyester resin and fillers. According to a Minwax Technical Service representative the filler "cures rock solid" and is not flexible and has little give and take with the wood as it expands and shrinks due to changes in moisture. In fact they recommend using nails with the heads acting as keys to hold the patch in place when it loosens. I see this as a potential problem in exterior woodwork repairs because the loose patch could trap moisture behind it causing decay. It would be better to have the patch fail by falling out so it can be easily recognized that maintenance to the repair is needed. Drying and curing times for these Minwax products are faster than epoxies, but I have some concerned about how long the repairs will last.

henry beat me to it, but bottom line is there are 30-40 years of documented success in repairing exterior wood with wood epoxies. and there are plenty of documented failures of bondo on wood repairs in less than 10 years.