Delta 17-950 DP questions

[scott vroom]

Anyone own this model? I'm looking for a good woodworking DP in the $400-$600 range incl shipping. Amazon sells the 17-950 for $482.99 incl shipping. Is this a good machine? I want this to be my last DP purchase. I looked at Grizzly and Jet but both got poor reviews on Amazon. I also looked at the Delta 17-950 but it is $>800 w/shipping...a stretch but I could afford if it's really worth the extra dollars. Opinions welcomed.

[Rod Sheridan]

Scott, are you trying to win the prize for most number of threads started by one person regarding drill presses?:D

Inquiring minds want to know............Regards, Rod.

[Jeff Rowley]

Scott - I have the 17-959L, which is the next step up. It has a larger motor (3/4hp vs. 1/2hp) and a longer stroke, overall just seems much 'beefier'. I really like the large tilt tables on these drill presses, they seem much more 'woodworker friendly', although if you're going to add an aftermarket table, I guess it doesn't matter much.

I think I paid about $575 for the 959L at my local Woodcraft and have been very happy with it.

[glenn bradley]

I have the 17-950 that you can pick up at Lowes for under $400 almost any day of the week. That being said, dad has the 17-959 and it is a different class of machine. The 17-950 seems to be the top of the 'shop master' sort of design where the 17-959 seems to be the entry into the larger class of machine.

The best feature of either machine is the table design (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=64636&d=1179190997). The left/right tilt locking could be better but having a DP that tilts front to back (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=64635&d=1179190986) and side to side is pretty cool. The laser is mostly a gimmick to me as the line width far surpasses the degree of accuracy I need for woodworking. It is handy for getting in the ball park or for rough work though.

My 17-950 required new bearings after only a few months and the table raising mechanism bit it shortly after. Both were repaired under warranty and have performed well since. I did find the Delta superior in fit and finish when compared to the Jet and PM products in the same price range but that could easily have been the specific models that I was comparing. As in most situations in today's marketplace; shop the tool, not the badge. If you have a Tool-r-Us in your area, their prices are poor but you can get your hands on a wide range of competing products and then buy them someplace reasonable.

[scott vroom]

Scott, are you trying to win the prize for most number of threads started by one person regarding drill presses?:D

Inquiring minds want to know............Regards, Rod.


Rod, yes....I'm hoping that to shut me up someone will just give me their drill press.

[Paul Ryan]

Quill is sloppy.


Scott,

You have read my concerns about slop in quills lately. I just checked out a Delta 17-950 and 17-959 today. Both of the drill presses had slop in the quill like my jet. It suprised the crap out of me that no one cane make a $500 drill press that is tight. That being said I checked out a ridgid yesterday on my way through the BORG. That quill was the tightest I have seen yet. But I really don't think that means anything. A week or so after I had went through the hassel with mine. I went to a shop that was using a jet JDP-17MF drill press. That had a very tight quill. Others on this forum have complained that their 17MF drill press wiggles the same as mine. So what it tells me is, it is a crap shoot if you buy a drill press. You don't know what you are going to get.

That said, other than the fact that the quill on my drill press moves to much if you ask me. It is a really nice drill press. The light works great provides a lot of light. The laser works really nice. It is always aligned no matter what you do with the table. Up, down, side to side, the laser always shows were the bit is going to drill. I can actually trust the laser. unlike the lasers on other tools. That table is real nice as well. But I think the table on the Delta's are a little nicer because you can tilt them forward and back, instead of just side to side. But I don't know how often that adjustment would be used. Construction I think the Jet is similar to the Delta 17-959, the 17-950 being a lighter duty drill press. I think it is a nicer drill than the Steel City, but the quill might be tight on those presses.

If I were you, I would look for an older drill press, ebay possibly. There have been some nice older powermatics for sale that are too far from me. Or possibly check out the General 17" drill press. I don't know how much they are though. Who knows maybe they are made in canada too. But unless you want to spend big buck a wobbly drill press maybe in your future. I guess even some of the new $900 powermatics do it.

[glenn bradley]

Rod, yes....I'm hoping that to shut me up someone will just give me their drill press.

Bwaa-ha-ha-ha. . . that one got me :D.


Quill is sloppy. You have read my concerns about slop in quills lately. I just checked out a Delta 17-950 and 17-959 today. Both of the drill presses had slop in the quill like my jet. It suprised the crap out of me that no one cane make a $500 drill press that is tight.

Paul describes accurately the first problem with my 17-950L. It is almost sad that the quill is now nice and tight. I asked the service guys if there was an adjustment or procedure that I could have done myself. The answer was no, they just rebuilt it with the warranty parts they were provided.

So . . . why can't they just build them right in the first place??? Perhaps like Paul says; on some of these machines it is hit or miss. I can accept some issues if I am getting the same basic machine for half the other guys price but, $500 should buy a decent 17" DP, wouldn't ya think? If you do end up buying new and there are problems, push the maker to make it right or take it back. We have to speak with our wallets or they'll keep trying to sell us junk ;-)

[Paul Ryan]

Since my orginal contacts to Jet, and the trip to the warranty repair guy. I have been steaming, I am thinking I should really be persistant with Jet until they fix the machine I have. It really is a bunch of crap that they cannot build a better machine for what they charge. Anyway they orginally told the repair guy that they cannot do anymore because their specs don't measure when the quill is being extended so are far as they are concerned it is with in specs. Since then I have attempted to contact Jet 2 times and speak with the guy I talked to orginally. Well I have left 2 messages for him over the past 2 weeks. Still haven't received a return phone call. I have been nice and plesant on the messages just asking to speak with him again. But no return call. So my opinion of Jet customer service is deteriorating fast. I am determined to get my machine fixed, replaced, or a refund.

[Paul Johnstone]

I have an older version of the generic Lowes drill press (I think it is the 17-900, but I am not 100% sure) .. It's over 10 years old. I am not sure my comments are relevant to the newer models.

That being said. It does everything I ask it to.. drill holes for European hinges, etc.. I guess it depends on what you intend to use your DP for.
For most woodworking tasks, you don't need super duper accuracy on a DP. I think that's why lower priced DP have some slop in them and are not built to metal working specs. They are going after the price point on these models, because that's what most consumers care about the most. Most people are willing to accept less than perfection for the price.

[Gary Herrmann]

Look for places selling older refurbed drill presses maybe.

I got a refurbed Delta 968 from an online vendor (Redmond Machinery, I think) for less than $300 a few years ago. No detectable runout in the quill.

A good test for drill presses is drilling out pen blanks and getting a piston fit - which I do every time. I think there is variability in drill press manufacturing quality, but you should be able to get something acceptable in the $500 range.

Based on your concerns, I'd recommend buying from a brick and mortar store so you can get your hands on the machine and test the runout. Ultimately, a DP is just a drilling tool. If you can verify that a quill is accurate - brand doesn't matter - does it? If you can find a tight Rigid or Jet or whatever, get it.

Canadian General tools are great (I have 3) but you'll pay for the quality.

[Scott Vigder]

I'm in the same boat as Scott...I need a new DP but the choices out there all involve compromises.

I'm going to wait a few months to see what Papa Grizz has up his sleeve.

[Paul Ryan]

I check out 2 more drills presses today. I went through sears in the mall on the way to the movies with my wife. We hadn't been to a movie in about 2 years, it was nice to get ride of the little one for a few hours.

Anyway, I checked the quills on the 17" craftsman pro and the 15". The 17" had just as much play in the quill as jet. The 15" was real tight. But who says the next one would be that tight. Today's drill presses are just junk I guess.


While I was in there, I checked out the new zip code saw as well. It looks a lot like the ridgid but with the better Steel City fence. The fence look to be just like the steel city industrial fence. The industrial fence is an awesome fence, the best one out there if you ask me. But this new zip code saw runs over $900 I think it was $949. That is $450 more than the ridgid saw. The fence on the ridgid is a POS if you ask me, but the fence on the craftsman saw is not worth $450 no way no how. Looks like a decent saw, but way way over priced. I think the old 22124 is a much more saw for the money though.

I now have more concerns about the grainte after seening this saw as well. In the middle of the table one of the miter slots had chipped out. Not sure how that could have happen with customer abuse on the miter guage. Only thing I can think of is shipping damage, or some type of impact on the table? I sould have taken a picture so we could speculate.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I have an older model, 965. It's a 3/4 horse though. I really like it.
I added the laser, since I routinely use a hole saw. It's pretty useless for anything else but drilling a large hole, where you can't see where the pilot drill is going. It's fun to play with.
Do you need to buy a new one? You can probably get one like mine for less than that.....

[mickey cassiba]

So . . . why can't they just build them right in the first place??? Perhaps like Paul says; on some of these machines it is hit or miss. I can accept some issues if I am getting the same basic machine for half the other guys price but, $500 should buy a decent 17" DP, wouldn't ya think? If you do end up buying new and there are problems, push the maker to make it right or take it back. We have to speak with our wallets or they'll keep trying to sell us junk ;-)


Glenn, I can shed a little light on that point.
The DP was built by a team of semi-skilled shift workers, as are most tools these days.
While at PC/Delta I would sometimes wander across the plant to the assembly areas to fish for a few hours of OT. While I never worked on a DP line (they were all outsourced before my time) I did spend a few nights assembling various PC tools.
Normally an assembly cell is composed of ten to twelve workers, who have their hands on the tool for all of 30-40 seconds. The motor/gearbox run-in is the longest procedure in the whole process, lasting on average 1 1/2 -2 minutes. The tools are then wiped down, and "inspected" for fit and finish, and packaged. Total hands on time spent on a recip saw was roughly 7-9 minutes. A RAS might go upwards of 45 minutes, a cabinet saw perhaps an hour if you take out the time it spent in the powder coat booth.
I watched a DIY network show last night which featured the X-5 Unisaw
being built and carefully checked with a dial indicator before shipping.
Never happened on my shift! Everything was checked with jigs and gauges built in house.
A small sampling of each product is kept out of shipment and sent to the test lab for verification of the shift's production.
On the other hand, a tool which came through the reconditioning shop, got anywhere from 15 minutes to a couple of hours of attention from a trained technician (depending on the value and condition of the unit) before being stamped as reconditioned and sold at a small discount.
The reconditioned tools were held to a higher standard than the original production runs. I say were, because I have been to the recon facility in Mexico, and ran the Industrial recon facility in Texas. The standards that were in place at Jackson TN, did not make the move when B&D took over.
In China, where the DP's come from I'm sure that the above described situation is amplified tenfold, plus, the manufacturers (not owned by Delta, but rather contracted to produce product to the seller's specifications) know that they will never see the product again.
We have spoken with our wallets, but the message we sent was the wrong one. A drill press like the -950 built in the US would likely cost upwards of $1500, perhaps more. Who among us is ready to pay that kind of money for a simple drilling machine?
Scott, my advice is the same as Gary's, "Find an older, reconditioned model". The time spent searching will pay off.
Just my humble opinion, but an informed one I believe.
Mickey

[Chris Barnett]

When you state the quill is not tight, is that the same affect of the bit shifting upon contact with the wood? I have that problem with the new G7948 Griz I bought this year, and it still shakes like an old car when drilling although the arbor and chuck, and rear pully was changed under warranty and I replaced the original with Gates belts at my expense. Have had multiple contacts with tech support but cannot seems to get the shakes solved although it is still in warranty. Will be watching your thread to see if you can find a decent DP. I may have to dump the Griz and consider it a learning experience. It's a real shame...there was absolutely nothing wrong with the money I traded for it.

[Paul Ryan]

When you state the quill is not tight, is that the same affect of the bit shifting upon contact with the wood? I have that problem with the new G7948 Griz I bought this year, and it still shakes like an old car when drilling although the arbor and chuck, and rear pully was changed under warranty and I replaced the original with Gates belts at my expense.

The bit shifting upon contact with the wood is the exact problem I have. When the quill is lowered the bet stays centered. But when it contacts the wood it moves only a few thousands of and inch before it borers the hole. A few thousands of and inch isn't that big of a deal when you are drilling larger holes with some spacing. But when you are drilling 1/8 holes at a 1/4" apart the lack of precision really shows up quickly. You get a line of holes that should be in perfect alignment, that looks like a drunk drilled them. When I attempted to drill the cribbage board I used a fence and stops so each hole would be at the same spacing. That is when I realized the quill moved causing the bit to shift.

So it appears that grizzly has the same problem. It really should not be that big of a deal. Because many, many on this site and others have newer drill presses and have never noticed the problem. To be honest for the first 2 months I owned the drill press I never noticed. It ran real smoothly, didn't shake at all when drilling. Everything worked like a $500 drill press should if you ask me. It all went down the tubes when I tried to drill the small close holes.

[mickey cassiba]

I don't have too much experience with brands other than delta, but I recently rebuilt a Jet floor model DP at work, don't recall the model number, but as I was tearing it down it bore an eerie resemblance to a delta. When I tried to get replacement parts for the build, I found that the shipping cost from a Jet distributor exceeded the cost of the parts. I took the parts I needed to my local DeWalt s.c. and one of the techs and I measured and checked, and found the parts to be identical. Leads me to believe that more than one tool company is sourcing from the same plant in China.

[mickey cassiba]

The bit shifting upon contact with the wood is the exact problem I have. When the quill is lowered the bet stays centered. But when it contacts the wood it moves only a few thousands of and inch before it borers the hole. A few thousands of and inch isn't that big of a deal when you are drilling larger holes with some spacing. But when you are drilling 1/8 holes at a 1/4" apart the lack of precision really shows up quickly. You get a line of holes that should be in perfect alignment, that looks like a drunk drilled them. When I attempted to drill the cribbage board I used a fence and stops so each hole would be at the same spacing. That is when I realized the quill moved causing the bit to shift.

So it appears that grizzly has the same problem. It really should not be that big of a deal. Because many, many on this site and others have newer drill presses and have never noticed the problem. To be honest for the first 2 months I owned the drill press I never noticed. It ran real smoothly, didn't shake at all when drilling. Everything worked like a $500 drill press should if you ask me. It all went down the tubes when I tried to drill the small close holes.
Paul, when I worked in the machine shop we used jigs for closely spaced, small diameter holes to achieve symetry and near perfect alignment, even on the milling machines. If you plan on making more cribbage boards I would suggest a jig with pins and a drill bushing to line up your holes and keep the spacing even.

[glenn bradley]

When the quill is lowered the bet stays centered. But when it contacts the wood it moves only a few thousands of and inch before it borers the hole.

This sounds very much like a bit problem. The fist portion of the bit to contact the wood is not perfectly centered on the axis possibly? Has this bit been sharpened recently by something that may have been less that perfect? Is it (like some of mine) a bit out of a $20 Ryobi set received as a gift? :D. I do notice my $20 drill bit does much better than a bit from my $20 set of bits.

I also have some of those fatigue mats in front of some work areas. The expensive cutters always seem to seek concrete point first if dropped and this has saved me a few frustrating moments. Once that point is shot, the bit wanders on starting.

[Paul Ryan]

Thanks for the suggestion Glen but I am sure it is not the drill bit. I actually tried a cheap drill bit 1st. That is when I realized the quill was loose, and then all of the headaches finding out it is normal, yada, yada, yada. But after I realized I was basically stuck with a drill press that wouldn't do what I want. I thought maybe a good bit would keep the quill straight. I have a set of $350 solid cobalt drill bits I bought about 15 years ago. The have drilled out many many bolts on cars and trucks. They have been sharpened numerous times, with a drill doctor that does split points so it won't walk. And that didn't help either. The holes are much closer if you drill with the table moved up so it is only about 1/16 from the bit when it is fully retracted. So you really only have to plug about 1/4, but there was still a wave in the holes. I guess I need some type of metal jig so all of the holes will come out perfect. I didn't realize I was asking for so much precision from a drilling machine. The drill press will work great most other operations, just not this one I guess. I am going to take the quill out and put in a suggested nylon bolt to hold the quill tight at some point and see if that helps 1st. Thanks for all of the suggestions guys.