Granite Tablesaw Tops

[Carl Hunsinger]

I was in the Borg the other day, looking at the granite-topped Ridgid tablesaw. First thing I noticed was that the granite was chipped at the edges of the miter slots in the table. Admittedly, these floor models get alot of abuse, but has anybody else noticed this? If I was HD, I'd get that saw with the chipped top off the floor before too many people notice it.

Carl

[Steven Satur]

How about that, I could not agree more. About a year ago I stopped in a Woodcraft, and noticed the Steel City line with all the granite tops. The salesman came over to me and remarked about how well these machines are built. I asked about the tops. He said that granite is more stable and it is ground dead flat. I said "What was wrong with cast iron"? He said "Well in China thy don't build things like we use to, they cut down on the ribs on the under side, which will cause the top to warp. I would like to know just how long these machine are going to last until something gets dropped on them.I know for a fact that granite has Fault Lines running through it. Sooner or later it is going to crack. The what. Find out that the company will not stand behind the warranty or better yet they are out of buisness. You know, we are building furniture, not swiss watches. People should stop buying nice shinny tools just so they have something better then others. All I am doing now is buying old machines, built like they should be, and will last forever.

[Chuck Schultz]

It's been a while since the granite vs. cast iron conversation. Glad to see it has made its resurgence.

+1 for granite.

[Denny Rice]

It's been a while since the granite vs. cast iron conversation. Glad to see it has made its resurgence.

+1 for granite.


+1 for cast iron........JMHO

[Paul Ryan]

Hold on fellas, let me get some popcorn. This usually gets as heated as Sawstop.


+1 for granite.

[Dennis McGarry]

+1 for what ever works and stays flat the longest...

[Denny Rice]

Granite is for countertops in a kitchen, not a work surface. Yea, it might look cool but as long as you stay on top of the maintenance of your saw tabletop and keep it clean and polished you should never have a problem with cast iron.

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

... You know, we are building furniture, not swiss watches. People should stop buying nice shinny tools just so they have something better then others. All I am doing now is buying old machines, built like they should be, and will last forever.


I agree, we're making furniture...there has to be a point where we realize that some minor warping in cast iron isn't the end of the world in the woodworking realm.

However, we're all human and we are probably doing 1 of 2 things or both: 1) looking for a reason why our project wasn't as good as it could have been - must have been that dang warped table saw top or 2) Geez, I have a hankering to spend some money on a new saw - I'm about sick of this warped cast iron TS top, I'm gonna buy a new one!

On the flip side, America has been producing the same table saw setup for decades. I fully welcome an innovative idea like using granite. It will never rust, it won't warp, it is dead flat (even though we don't need it, nothing wrong with it either). How brittle it may or may not be is certainly a concern.

I'll say another thing - I am constantly reading on here about guys finding used equipment and its frustrating as heck...why? Because I never find anything in my area so i get jealous of you guys finding great deals! :) I am always scanning craigslist and the newspapers for used machinery. If i would have waited to find a used cabinet saw, I would have literally waited years before being able to buy a saw. Glad i bought my unisaw about 3 years ago. As dumb as it may sound, some of us just aren't fortunate enough to run into used equipment. I know I'd welcome finding a smoking deal on some heavy iron somewhere.

[Steven Satur]

How many time are you going to slide the miter guage back and forth th the graite slot until it get sloppy. then what. I don't care what anyone says, you can't peen the side of the miter guage and expect it to work the same in a granite top as a cast iron.

[Cary Falk]

[QUOTE=Steven Satur;1245339]How many time are you going to slide the miter guage back and forth th the graite slot until it get sloppy. then what. QUOTE]

Uh, rotate those little adjustable plastic disc in my 1000SE. :D I have no dog in this fight. Granite, CI, whatever makes you happy. I couldn't get granite though, my wife would expect me to install it in her kitchen then.

[Paul Steiner]

I love my granite topped tablesaw. Easy maintenance and it looks great next to my stove. My dishwasher conveniently fits under the auxillary table, makes washing my sawblades so easy.

+1 for cast iron.

[Dean Karavite]

I love my granite topped tablesaw. Easy maintenance and it looks great next to my stove. My dishwasher conveniently fits under the auxillary table, makes washing my sawblades so easy.

+1 for cast iron.

LOL! Paul, my Forrest WWII comes out of the DW with unstighltly spotting and mineral deposits. Can you recommend a good rinse agent? Rremember to never wear your oven mitts while using your table saw. Then again, with the Rigid you might need some kind of mitt to catch the ejected dado.

[Scott Hildenbrand]

+1 for no issues with granite.. In fact, I own that model..

The HD I was in to check it out, their display was FLAWLESS.. Smooth as can be.. No chips, cracks.. All the knobs worked..

Basically... It was not beat to death by customers who felt like "kicking the tires", which is ALWAYS harder than they would EVER kick their own tires.

Besides, if it does ever chip, just mix up some epoxy and fill it, then wet sand and buff it over with wax.

I'd say that due to the rising costs of iron, someone was looking for an alternative.. I've got no complains with what they chose as it works fine for me.

And besides, at $450 [during sale], there's not a cast iron topped table saw that I know of in the same class [yet] with a true riving knife or internal motor.

That said, had I had the money I'd have got the Grizzly G0661 instead while it was on sale.. :D

Just my two cents.. :)

[Peter Aeschliman]

I have a 15 yr old (or so) cast iron Jet contractor's saw. It is warped (although not horribly). It's low in the middle, which I assume is because of the fact that the trunnions hang on the underside of the table.

I wish I had never gotten that nice 4' Veritas straight edge. Otherwise I'd never know it was warped. But now it does have a psychological affect on me. lol.

So part of me is romanced by the idea of the granite. That does raise a question though- where do the trunnions attach on the Rigid model? To the cabinet like a cabinet saw or to the underside of the table?

[Brian Effinger]

I bought one of the first hybrid granite tablesaws from Steel City a year and a half ago, and love it. My reason - my shop is in the basement & I don't want to have to maintain a cast iron top. So far no chips in it, but there are a few scratches from a runaway ROS. Oops. :o


Peter - mine attach to the cabinet, and I think the ridgid does as well, but I'm not 100% sure.

[Scott Hildenbrand]

The trunnions are cabinet attached, allowing the whole top to be moved to adjust level to the blade.

[Jim Rimmer]

[QUOTE=Scott Hildenbrand;1245404
That said, had I had the money I'd have got the Grizzly G0661 instead while it was on sale.. :D

Just my two cents.. :)[/QUOTE]
Scott, I got one on sale and love it.

As for granite, my thought after reading comments about chips and cracks is , how long before the mfrs drop these lines and start selling ci retrofit kits. Now I see comments that people have them and have no cracking or chipping problems and love them. Each to his own, I guess. And the jury is still out on durability; let's see the comments in 5 years - still going strong or cracked like a pecan? :confused:

[Scott Hildenbrand]

Yeah.. It's going to be some years before anything hard can be said about them under NORMAL usage from those who care about their tools.. ;)

I'd say scratching is my only worry about the top.. Chips are way less likely than scratches.. But then, a nice coat of wax cures those ailments.

[Paul Ryan]

IMO as long as the granite is not abused it should out live the cast iron. I owned one of the 1st steel citys saws with 3hp and a granite top and have nothing but good things to say about the top and the fence.

[Adam Strong]

I have the Rigid R4511... As most, I bought it on sale and got it for less than any other saw in the same class can touch. You can't beat what you get for the price. As for those who think the granite top is not a good idea, I disagree. There seems to be people who are just afraid of something new and different from the long time norm. The added weight helps cut down on vibration, and a coat of wax makes it super slick. I am willing to bet that, with normal use, the granite top will last at least as long as cast iron. The thinner granite used in kitchens takes a lot of abuse and lasts forever, so I believe the thicker, more dense granite is more than adequate for a saw top. Just don't use it as a work bench. I wouldn't expect that any of you use your CI top saw for a work bench either. Smack your CI top with a hammer hard enough to crack granite and see what happens... You'll more than likely see a crack.

My .02

And yes the trunion is cabinet mounted... The SC and Ridgid saws are pretty much twins.

[george wilson]

I am always tugging my cabinet saw to various angles to saw a longer board. I wouldn't want to try grabbing the corner of a granite top and doing that. And yes,my saw is on a mobile base. Apparently not heavy duty enough for my 600# saw,though it is rated for more weight. It is a Shop Fox.

[Eric Roberge]

+1 for whatever makes you happy!:)

[Scott Hildenbrand]

I wouldn't want to try grabbing the corner of a granite top and doing that.

If I'm manly enough to crack my saw top by dragging it around via a grip on the top, I'm entering the strong man competition.. I'll be a shoe in! :D

Which, btw, I do give it a shove and a yank by the top when I need to turn it or scoot it in one direction or another.. I'd RATHER grab the top and do that than than the split fence rail.. Much stronger..

But like Eric says... +1 for what ever makes you happy... Works for me! ;)

[Steve Southwood]

How about a Granite topped Sawstop? Sorry, couldn't help myself. Just figure we could beat a different horse to death.

What ever makes the owner happy is fine by me.

[Paul Ryan]

How about a Granite topped Sawstop? Sorry, couldn't help myself. Just figure we could beat a different horse to death.

What ever makes the owner happy is fine by me.


I had to bit on this one. I think a granite topped sawstop would be the cat's behind. I would trade my current sawstop in for one in a heart beat. I like granite much better than the cast iron. The cast looks better, but the granite is more maintenance free. But I really think a granite sawstop would be way to gimiky for many. But dont knock granite until you have owned one. It will change what you think about it.

The guy I sold my granite saw to wasn't sure about the granite. He had always had cast machines. But he decided to give it a try. About a month later he called me looking for an end cap that fell of the fence tube when I delivered it. I asked him how he like the granite. He told me that he would never go back to a cast machine if he could help it. Look no maintenance, I don't have to wax it, or worry about setting my beer on it. It truly is a "table" saw.

[george wilson]

I'm holding out for granite saw blades!!!!!:)

[Denny Rice]

Cast iron tops are not that hard to maintain. About once every 4-6 months I clean top with penetrating oil and scrub with a scotch brite pad and wipe dry with paper towels. Then take 409 and hit the table with it to remove any residue from penetrating oil. Then the last step is 3 coats of Johnson Paste wax. Takes about 15 minutes less waiting for wax to haze up to buff clean. I like my cast iron.

[Rick Fisher]

Most of the great ideas in woodworking machinery come from Europe..

Those little carbide knives in your Helical head.. Made in Germany..

Mini-Max.. = Italy..


I would be more comfortable with Granite if SCM, Felder or Griggio had introduced it..

+1 For Cast Iron.

[Bill ThompsonNM]

I like my cast iron unisaw myself , and didn't really realize that cast iron wArping was a big problem. One if the import companies used to specifically highlight the fact that their castings sat for a few years before surface grinding so that they'd get pasta any warping

As for rust-- though I now live in the dry state of NM, I really didn't have problems with rust in Mass where I lived for some 20 years--a little bit of paste wax a couple of times a year was enough. As for the table rusting I worried more about the trunnions, etc. Thingsyou can't see.

[JohnMorgan of Lititz]

Most of the great ideas in woodworking machinery come from Europe..

Those little carbide knives in your Helical head.. Made in Germany..

Mini-Max.. = Italy..


I would be more comfortable with Granite if SCM, Felder or Griggio had introduced it..

+1 For Cast Iron.


No offense, but that is the strangest logic I have ever seen. Good for you making it as far in life as you have with reasoning like that. And I'm all about European products and engineering...cars to motorcycles to tools.

wow...

Cheers.

[Scott Hildenbrand]

Makes me wonder what a Lamborghini table saw would be like... :D :D

[Dar Lounsbury]

At the moment, I have 3 cast iron Unisaws. All are flat. C/I works for me.

I am with Eric, whatever floats YOUR boat, works.

There is an awful lot of precision machinery made from cast iron and most of it does not change with age. How many cars with iron motors have the blocks warp. It is a very, very small percentage and they have heat to help. A saw does not.

I am certain granite works fine but for me, I prefer cast iron.

[Scott Hildenbrand]

The only thing I really.. really miss is... Magnetism.

[Chuck Valentine]

I've had such a bad experience with Steel City and their granite lately that I'm definitly back into the Cast Iron camp. (just search for "stay away from steel city" and you can read all about it. I'm in a very humid Jacksonville , FL not far from the ocean and figured granite would be perfect. All of my potentially saved time from table maintinance is now gone forever with a 6 month delay. The replacement top I have received looks to be from a used and abused saw out of their shipping warehouse. My back is screwed up so I haven't been able to put it onto the saw yet but I can tell you that I wouldn't put a granite top into a commercial enviroment. Who knows if I'll be able to polish the scratches out of it and I am dreading to find out how bad the T-Slotted guides have stood up. I'll never have the new looking and functiong saw that I had purchased. I guess it all boils down to....

Buy granite if you can get your saw safely to the house and protect it fom everyone and thing. Because you can't count on a replacement top in the future let alone the present.


I'm going to let the cat out of the bag for everyone wanting that good tool deal on Craigslist. There is a site called "Jaxed" that has a search engine called the "Mash". :D It searches certain catagories in CL and you can do it by state or region. It rocks.

Keep making sawdust and most of all, have fun.

[Harold Burrell]

+1 for no issues with granite.. In fact, I own that model..

The HD I was in to check it out, their display was FLAWLESS.. Smooth as can be.. No chips, cracks.. All the knobs worked..

...

That said, had I had the money I'd have got the Grizzly G0661 instead while it was on sale.. :D

Just my two cents.. :)

My story is just the opposite. I had "purchased" the Ridgid from HD...but ended up going with the Grizzly G0661.

[Scott Hildenbrand]

I use CraigsPal [FREE Version] for CL searches.. I must say, it [and a map] really helped me pinpoint those lists which were closest to me during the configuration.

[Steve Clardy]

Yes. Whatever floats yer boat. :D

I'll stay with my cast iron tops.
I probably won't need another cabinet saw anyways.
I've spent 15 years trying to wear this one out.

[Paul Ryan]

I should have added before.

That all though I am a supporter of granite tools surfaces. I think they have a distinct advantage over the good old cast iron. When I bought my saw one of the things that made me feel better about the experment with granite was that Steel city was so confident in the material that they warrantied it for 10 years no questions asked. But that is when the Box brothers were running steel city. Now that is not the case any more. You hear horror story after horror about customer service with steel city. If I had a granite top I would be worried about service for the full length of warranty. All though I believe the material is stable and would last longer than cast iron. A warranty is a warranty, if the company isn't going to be around in 10 years what good is the waranty. And if they are not going to stand behind their product what good is it. This can be said about most companies, as our economy shows it's ugly head every few years. But we all know that these granite topped tool surfaces are comming from steel city, or orion tools. So how good is a table saw that breaks it's top while under warranty if you can't get a replacment for it. I am not sure what the warranty is from ridgid (should be lifetime) and craftsman? But if something would happen to the top of the table saw, will it get replaced? I don't know. How can it if there isn't a steel city or orions tools?

[Chuck Valentine]

I use CraigsPal [FREE Version] for CL searches.. I must say, it [and a map] really helped me pinpoint those lists which were closest to me during the configuration.

Thanks for the tip, that is some neat software. More tool deal to swoop down on. The guy that wrote the Jaxed Mash did so for looking for Corvair cars and has slowly expanding its search capabilities. So far it has found me some great old American steel, an Oliver Lathe and Jointer. Happy hunting.

[Ken Higginbotham]

You'd think they could come up with a man-made product that is maint free like granite and as durable as cast iron - :(

[James Fleming]

Is there any reason that a granite top shouldn't remain perfect for ever? How many millions of years old was that granite before it was made into the top of my saw? I took the slot tabs off my miter gauges and only use them if they contribute to the job at hand. My only real beef with my 4511 was the poor quality fence which I replaced with a ShopFox Classic, which is at least three times as beefy as the original. The top is a great place to stick down a piece of wet-or-dry silicon carbide paper with just water for sharpening chisels and plane blades (Scary-Sharp idea). Anybody do that with a cast iron table?

[Ken Higginbotham]

Is there any reason that a granite top shouldn't remain perfect for ever? How many millions of years old was that granite before it was made into the top of my saw?

You mean before it was taken from a chunk in the ground who knows how large and sliced into a relatively thin pc? :p

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

For me this is pretty much a non issue.
If I want a diamond top on my saw what's a good reason for not getting the diamond top? It's my saw, my money, and my pleasure that I have the hobby in the first place.

That the borg, or any one, will sell a friable material as a saw top also strikes me as a non issue. Everybody knows that stone chips. If I buy that friable material because it pleases me to look upon it, it's my problem if it chips.

I just don't see a reason to become all exercised over it.

[James White]

You'd think they could come up with a man-made product that is maint free like granite and as durable as cast iron - :(

I am sure that they already have. The problem would be cost. Have you ever priced any of those man made granite substitutes counter tops. Corian seems fairly soft. But I have seen some others that certainly looked like they were quite hard. Almost looked like tarazo (sp).

James

[george wilson]

I don't know how easy it would be to move about a heavy table saw if I couldn't grab the corners of the cast iron top and pull it around. Those granite tops are held onto the saw's cabinet by glued in inserts aren't they? I don't trust them that much,or the breaking strength of the granite. Especially with miter gauge grooves cut way into it. Though my saw has a mobile base,it takes more effort to move it than I'd want to put on a granite top.

Don't forget: Stone has great strength in compression loads,like in columns. But,it is not suitable for other stresses,like tugging on it. The reason the Chinese started using the granite tops is that they cost less to make than cast iron tops over there.

[Jose Luis]

The granite used in the tabletops are from stones? or syntetic ones? wich is the thickness?

[Sean Tracey]

Granite doesn't rust which can be an issue in humid environments found in Gulf Coast states.

[Greg Peterson]

Yes, it is a natural material, not a composite or manufactured material. The saw is no longer in production. As for thickness, my saw is not conveniently located, but if memory serves correctlt, it's about 1 1/4".

[Rick Potter]

I am waiting to special order a SawStop with the granite table and the 10' granite slider. I am sure it will have an available granite outfeed table also.

The original poster is lucky to have a borg with a full size table saw on display. I haven't seen one in my HD in 5 years, just jobsite saws.

[John Donhowe]

The original poster is lucky to have a borg with a full size table saw on display. I haven't seen one in my HD in 5 years, just jobsite saws. Check the date of the OP :eek:

[Rick Potter]

OOPS,

never mind.

[Lenore Epstein]

OOPS,

never mind.
Happens to the best of us. You do a search for something, find a thread that raises questions, and reply. Or, in my case, I follow a link to an old thread that someone posted in a current thread, get more interested in that discussion, and whoops, there I go again!