New Stanley sweetheart no. 4

[Zach England]

This is my first time posting over here on the dark side, so please bear with me. I am new to hand planes and looking to build my collection a bit. I had always thought hand planes were not for me until I recently had to smooth a bench top and the most expedient way to do it was with a plane. I took my cheap stanley (read: came from lowes and has plastic handles) no. 4 and spent a couple hours trueing the sole and sides and re-grinding and honing the iron. After a little bit of adjusting I was making foot-long and paper-thin shavings of very hard maple and I was hooked. I read this forum a bit, evaluated my needs and ordered a veritas low-angle block plane and medium shoulder plane as my first "real" planes. They have made easy and quick work out of small jobs I used to use loud and messy power tools for. I am still learning how to adjust and use them, but so far so good. I don't know how I ever did anything without a block plane. The shoulder plane has been less useful that I had imagined, but sometimes it is just the right tool for jobs that would otherwise have me trying to remove 1/32 inch with the table saw.

Anyway, I am not really interested in doing stock perparation by hand at the moment. I will keep my jointer and planer for that. So I think my next planes will be a smoother plane and a standard-angle block plane, unless someone disagrees. All this gets me to a simple question. Has anyone used the new stanley sweetheart no. 4? I have read a lot of reviews of these planes in general, but nothing about this specific one. I am also looking at the stanley sweetheart standard block plane. I am pretty sure I want another Veritas or a venerable Lie Neilson, but if someone here says this is a great block plane I will go for it. I look at the stanleys just because I have a Rockler gift certificate I need to use and amazingly can't find anything else I want. Input?

Thanks.

http://images.rockler.com/rockler/images/39711-03-500.jpg
(image courtesy Rockler)

And this is the one it would replace. My biggest complaints are that the blade dulls easily and the adjustment is difficult and not precise at all. It also just feels cheap.
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o237/zachslc/IMG_0348.jpg

[James Scheffler]

Dark side? I think you'll find things are much brighter over here. ;)

I got into hand planes for similar reasons. A good smoother is a very useful thing. I'm actually avoiding sanding at all costs.

If you buy a smaller smoother, you may find that the standard angle block plane is redundant. You typically end up with a similar cutting angle anyway (45*). You already have the low-angle block plane for small trimming tasks, and you can always buy an extra blade and grind it to a steeper angle if you feel the need.

Jim

Edit: In a few months you'll decide you need a jack plane, and then you'll be happy that you saved the money on the standard angle block. Really. It's a sickness.

[Sam Takeuchi]

Stanley Premium No.4 (http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/Tweaking+A+New+Stanley+No+4.aspx)

As for block plane, you don't need a standard angle block plane. If you think about it, the only difference between low angle and standard angle block plane is the cutting angle. Yes, bedding angle is different, but in the end, it all comes down to cutting angle. Standard angle has cutting angle of 45 degree and up. Low angle has cutting angle of 37 and up. For a low angle plane, you don't have to stick to standard 25 degree bevel on the blade. You can hone a micro bevel of 35 degrees and it'll work just the same as standard angle. If you don't want to change micro bevel back and forth, you can buy a spare blade for $31.50 from Lee Valley. If you need low cutting angle for end grain, you can put a 25 degree blade. If you want to use it for making parts or doing small work, you can put on whatever higher angle blade. Basically whatever a standard angle block plane can do, a low angle block plane can do, plus easier end grain work. Certainly you don't need both low and standard angle. If you simply want planes you can use and not just amassing planes, your money can be better spent on something else.

P.S. If you are thinking about getting a Stanley Premium No. 4, add $20 more to get a Veritas No. 4. If anything is wrong with your plane, Veritas/Lee Valley will work with you to solve the problem. If you ever decide to sell your Veritas No. 4, value doesn't drop all that much, you can recoup pretty big chunk of purchase price as well. I don't think it works that way with Stanley products unless it's a pre-WWII vintage tools.

[Zach England]

OK, thanks for the info. I know about switching the irons in the block planes, but I was thinking I'd want to have both setups without having to re-adjust them. my problem with my current block plane is that it is taking a lot of effort and force to use and I thought this was just the way low angle blocks were. Maybe I need to re-examine the way it is setup. Like I said, I have only been using hand planes for about two weeks and just got the Veritas planes over the weekend.

I know it has been discussed ad nauseam, but if I am on the wrong track with these planes what would you recommend?

[Sam Takeuchi]

You might be tightening the lever cap too tightly. It just needs to be tight enough that the blade wouldn't shift easily. When you tighten lever cap, wheel will turn freely until it engages the blade. Once it engages the blade, you just need 1/8 turn or so. It'll feel like wheel is snugly tight. You certainly don't need to tighten it like a vise. That'll simply make depth and lateral adjustment difficult. It should be enough. If somehow you find it still loose, give minute turn, less than 1/8 turn. Not more than that.

When you want to adjust depth or lateral movement, you can loosen the wheel by really tiny bit, so it's not tightly locked. When you turn the wheel counter clockwise, you'll feel that the wheel disengages from snug to less-than-snug-more-than-loose feeling. Once you are satisfied with adjustment, give wheel a slight turn to snugly seat the blade again. If you think adjuster give too much leverage for lateral adjustment, you can use a small hammer to tap the blade to give lateral adjustment as well. Some people feel it allows finer adjustment. Personally I'm fine with Norris style adjuster.

By the way, even in snug state, you should still be able to adjust slight depth and lateral movement without a lot of force. You can adjust all the way, but normally it is considered a not good practice. It might strip threads from adjuster screw or nut if you force too much.

[Jim Koepke]

This is my first time posting over here on the dark side, so please bear with me. I am new to hand planes and looking to build my collection a bit. I had always thought hand planes were not for me until I recently had to smooth a bench top and the most expedient way to do it was with a plane. I took my cheap stanley (read: came from lowes and has plastic handles) no. 4 and spent a couple hours trueing the sole and sides and re-grinding and honing the iron. After a little bit of adjusting I was making foot-long and paper-thin shavings of very hard maple and I was hooked. I read this forum a bit, evaluated my needs and ordered a veritas low-angle block plane and medium shoulder plane as my first "real" planes. They have made easy and quick work out of small jobs I used to use loud and messy power tools for. I am still learning how to adjust and use them, but so far so good. I don't know how I ever did anything without a block plane. The shoulder plane has been less useful that I had imagined, but sometimes it is just the right tool for jobs that would otherwise have me trying to remove 1/32 inch with the table saw.

Anyway, I am not really interested in doing stock perparation by hand at the moment. I will keep my jointer and planer for that. So I think my next planes will be a smoother plane and a standard-angle block plane, unless someone disagrees. All this gets me to a simple question. Has anyone used the new stanley sweetheart no. 4? I have read a lot of reviews of these planes in general, but nothing about this specific one. I am also looking at the stanley sweetheart standard block plane. I am pretty sure I want another Veritas or a venerable Lie Neilson, but if someone here says this is a great block plane I will go for it. I look at the stanleys just because I have a Rockler gift certificate I need to use and amazingly can't find anything else I want. Input?

Thanks.


And this is the one it would replace. My biggest complaints are that the blade dulls easily and the adjustment is difficult and not precise at all. It also just feels cheap.


Zach,

Wellcomb to zee dark side...Bwah ha ha haaaaaaah!

And happy Halloween.

Being a specialty plane, what you describe is exactly the type of special purpose a shoulder plane was made to accomplish.

As for your next plane, my advice is the same as others. A standard angle block plane is not as useful as a low angle block plane or a bench plane.

It does really get down to what you want to do. If you are doing small work, then you really do not need a large jointer plane. Those are more useful when trying to smooth larger areas like a table top or to get a couple of edges straight to glue together.

For smoothing work my #4s tend to be used the most but that may be because there are 4 of them and only one each of the #3 and #4-1/2.

You might also think about the #4 you have and your experience with that. Did it feel like it would have been better if it were a little bigger or smaller? If so, the #4-1/2 is a little bigger and the #3 is a little smaller.

Will Rockler let you return the Stanley and exchange for something else if it does not work out?

Does Rockler carry Lee Valley or Lie-Nielsen?

Do they have a store near you so you can actually give the planes the tactile feel test?

jim

[Zach England]

OK, thanks for the advice. I just pulled the trigger on a Veritas 4 1/2 and a bullnose. The bullnose was kind of an impulse. The easy conversion to a chisel plane is what I think looks so useful there. Thanks god I don't have a spouse so I don't have to be asked "Don't you already have a plane?"

Another question regarding the block planes:

Last night I was working some coarse-grained oak and was getting a lot of tear-out. I know I was asking a block plane to do the job of a smoother plane, but that aside, what causes the tearout? Is it the angle of the cutter or something else? Lack of chip breaker?

Sorry for such pedestrian questions.

[Sam Takeuchi]

It could be due to many reasons, from dull blade, taking too thick shaving, mouth too open, insufficient bevel angle, and so on. Generally having real sharp blade is the most important thing. And take thin shavings. Closing the mouth to about 1/64" (could be slightly narrower or wider. Don't need to be precise) should help to prevent tear out. You just have to fiddle with it to find the right combination of things.

Try giving 50 degree micro bevel. Most likely that'll take care of tear out problem.

[Jim Koepke]

Another question regarding the block planes:

Last night I was working some coarse-grained oak and was getting a lot of tear-out. I know I was asking a block plane to do the job of a smoother plane, but that aside, what causes the tearout? Is it the angle of the cutter or something else? Lack of chip breaker?

Sorry for such pedestrian questions.

That is a question that has been haunting woodworkers for ages.

At least it is covered here and on other woodworking sites with a lot of pixels.

jim

[Prashun Patel]

Tearout is caused by the blade getting under the wood fibers and lifting them causing them to tear out ahead of the blade.

They say the first fix for this is to close up the mouth of the blade as much as possible. This presses down the fibers ahead of the blade preventing them from lifting.

Higher incidence angle attacks also tend to reduce tearout. While all plane blades SHEAR the wood fibers, higher angle ones tend to scrape more and are easier to adjust to get a very light cut. Both of these things reduce tearout.

You can also try approaching the piece from the opposite side. You can definitely feel the difference of plaining with and against the grain. You can also try planing across the grain.

Tearout is usually reduced by trial and error, and I agree that the #1 thing is a sharp blade.

[Take Alberts]

On the Popular Woodworking site is an article on Taming handplane tearout (http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/Taming_Handplane_Tear-out/).

Take