Want suggestions regarding hand plane making

[Matt Lau]

I fell in love with handplanes at Japan Woodworker three years ago, but I've never had the money to buy them or the time to make them.

I struggled with a crappy Grizzly set, bought a rather nice (but hopelessy warped) woodie jointer plane, and bought a small (but sole is not flat) Mujingfeng. I fell in love with a Krenov style plane, but I can also see the benefits of a heavy infill for some crazy woods that I plane to work with (guitar building). And I built a guitar kit (with lots of help from a card scraper) during dental school.

Anyways, I've graduated dental school.
After I get settled, I'd really like to make some planes to use.

Do you have any suggestions?

I've heard that steel planes can rust, and that woodies can distort.
I also read Mike's excellent post on the merits of each design for the function (toted vs nontoted) (woodie vs heavy infill).

I'd be curious regarding what you look for in a handplane as a user.

Currently, I'm considering a Krenov vs an Infill.
I'm curious about what bedding angles you recommend, metal supply sources, tools you recommend, and stuff like that.

Please give me your input.

-Matthew

ps. Why aren't there fiberglassed woodies if distortion is a concern?

[Tim Put]

The last step in making a plane is tuning it. I suggest you learn to tune the woodies you already have before jumping into making one from scratch. I don't know anything about grizzly's planes so I won't comment on that one, it may very well be hopless, but I'm sure the muginjfang would tune up nicely.

All you need to flatten the sole is a flat surface and some sandpaper or a scraper of some sort and a straight edge (you can do some things with the scraper not possible with sandpaper, but the sandpaper is easier and more than adequate).

[David Gendron]

I have made only one plane so far, a Krenov style plane and love it. It's my prefered plane and I do have a lot of plane from LV LN old bed rock and Baley etc... I realy like my Krenov plane because it's light, doesn't have a tote, it's chaped to my hand and it work like a dream and it's my first one so it can only get better! I sugest you get a copy of David Flink book and follow his recomendation for a first plane. I Also use Hock blade and chip braker. Start with a 45 degree bed for the first one and see how it work, be realy carfull on the mouth opening operation and you will find out that these plane can do a lot even in difficult wood! The beauty of wooden plane is that they glide so well over wood it make planing easyer!
Just my $0.02!
Good luck!

[Matt Lau]

Sorry, I forgot to mention that I did fettle the Mujingfeng a bit.
It did tune up nicely. I used it mainly to smooth stuff, but I wasn't happy about the grip. Touching up the blade bevel resulted in an amazing difference!

This may sound dumb, but where do you recommend finding a good straight edge?
I'm living with my parents for now, so I don't have space to store a granite block.
My shop will be an unclaimed 4'x6' area in the garage.

[Sam Takeuchi]

First of all, you need to tune your wooden planes. They aren't meant to be perfect when they come to you. You have to flatten the sole. Unless your wooden jointer's body is split or cracked, it can be made to be a great user if there is no major problem exist. Your Muji plane simply needs a bit of sole flattening and that is it. You have to maintain your plane. I highly doubt there is any wooden plane that doesn't require occasional tune up to keep it in top condition. It's not a defect, that's just being a wooden plane. All it takes is some abrasive papers and flat surface, rub the sole and that's it. So don't disregard wooden planes thinking they are not good because sole isn't flat.

Plane making can be fun, but unless you find a decent vintage wooden plane blade in usable condition, it'll still cost quite a bit. For example, a Hock blade/cap iron set is about $50, +/- a few bucks. You can scout around eBay, garage sale, antique tool dealers and what not to find either a blade/cap iron set or old junk of a wooden plane with decent blade for quite low price, in some cases for less than $10. You can use those blades if you want to keep your budget down.

I don't recommend trying to make an infill plane at this point. It is rather more involving and if you don't have metal working tools, by the time you save enough money for tools and steel, you can buy a superbly made bevel up planes from Lee Valley that will work just as good, if not better, than most infill planes, new or old. And infill plane making is quite involving, far less forgiving when it comes to tolerance and fit. If you haven't made any planes so far, bluntly speaking, it's not really a thing to try as a first project.

Bedding angle really depends on the materials you use. If you work on difficult wood, normally higher angle is recommended. 60 to 62 would work very well. For soft wood, you can use a lot lower bedding angle, even 45 degrees, in some cases, 40 will sufficient. There is single angle to recommend. You have to figure out by trial and error what works on your materials. It's safe to start with 45 or 50 degree bed angle and I think you should stick around here for your first homemade plane.

Anyway I think you should try to make your existing planes work first. Especially Muji line of planes are great bargain for the quality. Even if you build your planes, you'll have to tune it occasionally. I guarantee you, sole will not stay flat as you use them. No woodies will.

[Sam Takeuchi]

If you aren't happy with Muji plane, what you can do make a new plane body and use the Muji blade. I think Muji blade is M2, tough steel, and it holds edge for a long time, but you do need to do some serious sharpening to get sharp edge. I have M2 blade and I love it, but I don't particularly enjoy sharpening them.

You can buy affordable straight edge from Lee Valley, aluminum straight edge is pretty cheap. For something like woodwork, you really don't need a straight edge like machinists use. You can buy them, but they are very expensive. Waste of money if you only do woodworking.

If you can't get a granite block, you can use a thick float glass. I don't know if there's a place you can buy ideal sized glass near you. You might want to look around on the internet and see if there's any place that can make a custom size glass plate. 3/8" or 1/2" plate should be thick enough. If you are concerned, you can attach a backing board, MDF or relatively stable hardwood to provide support.

[Chris Friesen]

I've heard that steel planes can rust, and that woodies can distort.

You can reduce the risk of distortion when building wooden planes by using straight-grained wood and cutting the body square relative to the grain. That way it won't warp with humidity changes.

As for steel planes rusting...there are a few stainless steel and bronze planes out there, and Lee Valley has one corrosion-resistant cast iron block plane. It's pricey though.

[george wilson]

Matt,make a stout wooden bow and string it with a guitar 1st. string,the thinner the better. .009" is common. The taut string will be an accurate straight edge at very little cost.

[Michael Schwartz]

Iron bench planes have superior adjustments, when well seasoned stay flat, and are heavy.

With all that being said wood planes have a certain feel and "feedback" you can't possibly get from an iron bench plane. They also glide very very smoothly when waxed nicely. The tactile feedback from a woodie is just something you need to experience to understand.

I have a krenov style plane I made with a 1-1/2 inch blade.

Seasonly its not very hard to flatten out a wood plane, I usualy just put some sandpaper on the bed of my jointer or another dead flat surface and lightly sand it.

You can also use another hand plane to flatten out the sole of a wooden plane.

If the sole is really out of whack on a woody, such as you might find if your restoring one that hasn't seen use in a hundred years you can run it over a well tuned powered jointer set for a very very fine cut.

Cast iron bench planes will rust but I have solved that by wiping them down periodically with some Camilla oil. Occasionally I will find a few small spots of very light surface rust during the summer but that sands off with a few light passes with 600 grit sandpaper.

[Joel Goodman]

I fell in love with handplanes at Japan Woodworker three years ago, but I've never had the money to buy them or the time to make them.

I struggled with a crappy Grizzly set, bought a rather nice (but hopelessy warped) woodie jointer plane, and bought a small (but sole is not flat) Mujingfeng. I fell in love with a Krenov style plane, but I can also see the benefits of a heavy infill for some crazy woods that I plane to work with (guitar building). And I built a guitar kit (with lots of help from a card scraper) during dental school.

Anyways, I've graduated dental school.
After I get settled, I'd really like to make some planes to use.

Do you have any suggestions?

I've heard that steel planes can rust, and that woodies can distort.
I also read Mike's excellent post on the merits of each design for the function (toted vs nontoted) (woodie vs heavy infill).

I'd be curious regarding what you look for in a handplane as a user.

Currently, I'm considering a Krenov vs an Infill.
I'm curious about what bedding angles you recommend, metal supply sources, tools you recommend, and stuff like that.

Please give me your input.

-Matthew

ps. Why aren't there fiberglassed woodies if distortion is a concern?


No sure what the big issue is with iron planes rusting, a little care and a wipe down with some oil will fix that -- camellia (spelling?) is recommended by LN -- I use an oil by Hoppes that supposed to be good for guns and gunstocks. As mentioned LN makes bronze planes. In terms of wooden planes they need truing but not very often. I think you are looking at the minor issues -- the important ones to me are what's it for (fore, jointer, jack , smooth etc ) and what feels good to you the user. In terms of angle of attack that depends on long grain vs end grain and the type of wood you are planing. Look up the endless discussions of BU vs BD and you'll see another issue to think about. If you're making a plane I would start with a Krenov style for ease of build. In terms of "crazy wood" that BU discussion may be useful to think about. But I would try to fettle what you have first (maybe not the Grizzly!) You will learn a lot about planes and what you like by doing that. And get serious about sharpening!

[Michael Faurot]

I'm curious about what bedding angles you recommend,


45º for dealing with well behaved woods. 50º - 55º for something with more difficult grain. 60º - 62º for really difficult grain.



metal supply sources, tools you recommend, and stuff like that.
I've used McMaster-Carr before, but it seemed like their shipping was a bit expensive. I plan to use Enco for my next steel purchase.



Please give me your input.
Don't be afraid to make mistakes.

[Matt Lau]

Thanks for all the input!

I talked to my dad, and he sort of laughed. As an engineer, he told me about three different places where I could get different flat surfaces.
It might be a good, rare father-son thing (he usually only likes TV and Cantonese pop).

I think that I'll get a straight edge from Lee Valley, and maybe splurge on a Starrett rule. Plane making doesn't look too complicated, just laborious and highly detail oriented.

I guess, as with everything, I'll have to wait a while before building planes.
My main difficulty at the moment would be to rip wood in a consistent, straight line.
While I could probably do it with a handsaw, I think that I'll wait until I get access to a tablesaw or bandsaw.

Aside from the Crucible, do you know of any woodworking/metalworking collectives available to the public in Alameda?

-ps. Do you recommend any source for knurled adjuster screws?

[Chris Vandiver]

Matt,

Check out Laney College in Oakland. They have weekend woodworking classes. Might be perfect for you.

For your first plane, I would reccommend a high quality iron plane(LV,LN). No fuss, no muss.

Chris

[Brian Ward]

Aside from the Crucible, do you know of any woodworking/metalworking collectives available to the public in Alameda?


Not really a collective, but are you on the BAG mailing list? Take a look at http://www.calast.com/personal/ken/BAGsFAQ.htm.

[Alan Schwabacher]

I also strongly recommend the David Finck book "Making and Mastering Wood Planes", but apparently it's out of print yet again. Maybe you can find it in a library, or perhaps you can get it directly from the author. The book covers use of all the tools needed to make Krenov style planes, as well as tuning up and using the planes themselves. It is an excellent way to start woodworking.

If you are looking for a source of reasonably priced plane irons, you might want to look at Lee Valley. They carry high quality Hock and other blades, but their Taiwanese style plane replacement blades are much cheaper, and should fit well. I can't say for sure how long they'd hold an edge, but they would be worth a shot.

[Pam Niedermayer]

I strongly recommend you first experience how a plane is supposed to work; so get a LN or LV low angle jack, which ship ready to use (you could sharpen the blade a bit first, but not necessary) out of the box. These planes will do many tasks for you, from jack to smoothing, and give you an appreciation.

Pam, who makes Japanese planes from solid Japanese oak

[Nelson Howe]

David Fink's book is back in print. It's very helpful, especially for a novice, as it covers a lot of basic skills as he walks you through the process of building a plane. Unfortunately, I think some of the required tools may not be in Matt's workshop (band saw--though it might be possible to rip the sides off by hand).

Nelson

[Pam Niedermayer]

Or he could buy thinner wood and glue it up like crazy.

Pam, no fan of laminated planes

[David Gendron]

I did mine all with hand tools and it's not that hard... Give your self some room when ripping stock so you can straighten things up if your ripping is like my anglish, not perfect!!
Pam, do you have pictures of your planes... Or even better, a photo tutorial of how you proceed?

[Pam Niedermayer]

Sure, I'll give it a try, have never posted photos here. One is the plane, the other the read through shaving.

Pam

[David Gendron]

Nice Pam, Does the iron on Japanees plane are camdered? What kind of wood is that shaving from? Where do you get Japanees Oak from? A lot of questions, I know! But if you don't ask, you don't know!

[Pam Niedermayer]

Nice Pam, Does the iron on Japanees plane are camdered? What kind of wood is that shaving from? Where do you get Japanees Oak from? A lot of questions, I know! But if you don't ask, you don't know!

Not at all sure I understand the first question. Please restate.

The shaving is from Port Orford Cedar.

You buy the oak from US Japanese tool vendors, such as Hida (expensive, but I did buy a long blank there) or Aquastone (where I got a great deal of $14 per blank, now out of business due to death of owner).

So now you know. :)

Pam

[Wilbur Pan]

I'm sure that David meant to ask if Japanese plane blades are cambered, and the answer is, yes, they are, pretty much the same way western plane blades are cambered. Japanese planes set to take a fine shaving have very little camber, while those that are designed to take thicker shavings (think jack plane) have more camber.

[Pam Niedermayer]

Cambered? The edge? What? So far as I know I don't have any cambered blades, Japanese or not. Or is this a senior moment?

Do you and he mean beveled? Then yes, all edge blades have bevels, except for scrapers which may have flat "edges."

Pam

[David Gendron]

When me and Wilbur talk about cambered plane iron edge, we are refering to a radius that is formed from one side of the edge to the other so the edge of the plane is convex meaning the shaving would be thiker in the center than its edges, more or less depending on the purposes of the plane.

[Pam Niedermayer]

Oh, that cambered. I suppose you could camber a Japanese blade, same problems, but I never do, haven't needed to do to date. The only cambered blade I have is drasticly cambered for scrubbing.

Pam, who has to admit it must have been a senior moment, so sorry

[Wilbur Pan]

Hi Pam,

Unless your plane, Japanese or western, leaves tracks when planing, there has to be some camber on the blade. It can be a ridiculously small amount of camber, on the order of a few thousandths of an inch for a smoothing plane, but it will still be there.

[Pam Niedermayer]

Hi Pam,

Unless your plane, Japanese or western, leaves tracks when planing, there has to be some camber on the blade. It can be a ridiculously small amount of camber, on the order of a few thousandths of an inch for a smoothing plane, but it will still be there.


Yeah, though I think the tracks are the result of bearing down too hard, could be wrong. I haven't had to use camber so far; but also haven't made a huge table top lately. After all, even Odate has special stones dished in the middle just for sharpening the camber. And it's always possible that I added minor camber unintentionally and never noticed.

Pam

[Raney Nelson]

Hi Pam,

Unless your plane, Japanese or western, leaves tracks when planing, there has to be some camber on the blade. It can be a ridiculously small amount of camber, on the order of a few thousandths of an inch for a smoothing plane, but it will still be there.


I'm not sure I agree with this, Wilbur (though I use camber on all the planes I use for smoothing faces). I asked Jim Blauvelt about this, and he said he doesn't camber. I pointed out that there would be tracks on the surface, and his reply was that if you have the blade set perfectly, the next pass over would perfectly remove the edge material, and no tracks.

I was skeptical until he demonstrated :eek: -- just because it's a feat I haven't been able to replicate consistently doesn't mean it ain't possible. I also think the 'ears' on the blade help with making this possible.

[Brian Kent]

I was in Ron Brese's shop and tried out his infill smoother. He showed how to make a pass about 1/1000" deep, then take another pass right next to it and bring the second part down to the exact level of the first. No tracks. That was some mighty fine plane accuracy and blade setting technique!

Brian

[Wilbur Pan]

I'm not sure I agree with this, Wilbur (though I use camber on all the planes I use for smoothing faces). I asked Jim Blauvelt about this, and he said he doesn't camber. I pointed out that there would be tracks on the surface, and his reply was that if you have the blade set perfectly, the next pass over would perfectly remove the edge material, and no tracks.

I was skeptical until he demonstrated :eek: -- just because it's a feat I haven't been able to replicate consistently doesn't mean it ain't possible. I also think the 'ears' on the blade help with making this possible.

I would argue that the process of putting/maintaining the ears on the blade actually does put a small camber on the blade.

I agree, Jim's approach is possible. I would think that using a camber even for smoothing purposes is much more feasible.

The last thing that I thought of is that although we tend to think of camber as being a circular arc across the edge of a blade, like on a scrub plane, for something like a smoother or jointer, the camber is really only needed at the ends of the blade edge. You can have a straight edge on the middle 95% of your smoothing plane, and apply the camber to the right and left corners of the blade.

[Wade Holloway]

One thing that I will throw out at you is that if you get on Enco's emailing list a lot of times they will have their granite blocks on sale for as cheap as 18 bucks and I have even seen them on sale and still offer free shipping. You just have to watch for it. Good luck!

Ops, did not see that this was a 4 year old thread, sorry.