Thinking of turning some pens...

[Matt Ranum]

I'm sure this has been discussed here before but for the life of me I can't find it. What does a guy need to start to turn some pens/pencils?

1) Obviously a mandrel for my lathe.
2) Drill bit for blanks and tubes.
3) Wood :p I have some nice 5/4 curly Maple and Walnut burl scraps lying about.
4) ???
What else would I need? Are the supplies/pen parts different sizes between suppliers or are they pretty standard?

The Mrs has been asking what I want for Christmas and I'm trying to give her some ideas. We can't get crazy with funds and I thought about this and/or maybe a BB bowl gouge or 2.

[Greg Ketell]

1) Actually you would be better served by skipping the mandrel and turning between centers. Much less wobble resulting in round pens rather than oval pens. You can start with a mandrel, if you like. But if you get serious about pens you will end up between centers.

2) bits and jacobs chuck so you can drill on the lathe (much more accurate than drilling on a drill press).

3) For slim lines you only need a 1/2" square blank. For the biggest pens you only need 5/8" square blanks.

4) Sand paper up to 6000 grit (micro mesh). 0000 steel wool. 3 buffing wheels with red rouge, white diamond, and anti-swirl compound. Thin and Thick CA with aerosol accelerator. End mill (or end sander).

Ok, that takes care of getting started. For advanced stuff the list never ends. Simple segmenting: you will want a table saw or band saw, a sled for accurate/repeatable cuts, rip fence system for making consistent inlays, thickness sander. For stabilizing/casting your own blanks: pressure pot, vacuum pump, casting molds, alumilite crystal clear resin, pearl-ex, tints, etc.

Oh the slippery slope you are stepping onto. MUAHAhahahahahaha

GK
(seriously sliding down the slope (owns everything above and a lot more))

[Matt Ranum]

1) Actually you would be better served by skipping the mandrel and turning between centers. Much less wobble resulting in round pens rather than oval pens. You can start with a mandrel, if you like. But if you get serious about pens you will end up between centers.

I hadn't heard that before, didn't know there was much "wobble" issues with a mandrel.

2) bits and jacobs chuck so you can drill on the lathe (much more accurate than drilling on a drill press).


Actually I'm using an old 10ER Shopsmith so already have the chuck.



Oh the slippery slope you are stepping onto. MUAHAhahahahahaha

I just think of this as a little fork down the slide of specialized woodworking.:D I have a fairly well equipped shop, by a lot of hobbiest standards anyway. I fell off the cliff with hand tools a couple years ago and am now picking up speed off the turning slope.:p

[David E Keller]

I haven't turned between centers and have used a mandrel for the past 500 pens. You need to determine what style of pen you want to make so that you can order bushings for that particular kit. I like larger pens like the cigar pen from arizonasilhouette.com. You'll want a spindle gouge or skew to turn the blanks down. I use a pen mill to square the wood with the brass tubes. Finishing options are too numerous to discuss but one of the friction polishes is probably an easy place to start. Let us know if you have more questions

[Greg Ketell]

The two most common questions from pen turners are 1) why doesn't the wood match up with the kit parts evenly all the way around?, and 2) what's a high-quality, durable finish?

1) Mandrels are hit and miss. Make sure your rod is perfectly straight to start with. Make sure that the hole in the morse taper is straight and tight on the rod. (I have two now where the rod wobbles in the hole.) Use a 60-degree live center in your tail stock. Never over tighten your tail stock. Never have a snag while turning your blank. Never use a dull tool or any tool you have to push hard with. Make sure the cheap kit bushings are snug on the mandrel and snug in the tube (I've heard of people wrapping the mandrels and the ends of the bushings with teflon tape to get everything snug). If all of that works you should get a perfect pen.

Alternatively, use a 60-degree dead center in your head stock and a 60-degree live center in your tail stock and (optionally) high quality, 3rd-party bushings and you are guaranteed good fit and finish. Even if you use the kit bushings, now you are down to just the wobble of the tube on the bushing. The only down side is that you turn each half of the blank separately.

2) Once you learn to nail it, by far one of the best finishes you can do is a CA finish. (Using CA glue as the finish). Hard, durable, and very shiny (if you want it that way or you can skip the buffing for a "soft gloss" finish). Lacquer is probably the second choice.

When you buy your kits you need to be careful of the plating applied to the metal. The 10K gold, 24K gold, copper, etc are all very soft and wear off fairly quickly with use. The Titanium Gold, Black Titanium, Rhodium, Platinum are all the most durable. Mid road are things like the Chromes and "Satin" finishes. Craft Supplies USA used to have a good description of the durability of the various platings in their catalog. I can't find it on their web site today though.

GK

[Chris Stolicky]

While everything above is true on varying levels of perspective, I think it really depends on how much you really want to dive into pen making.

All you really need to make a pen is:
- A mandrel - I highly recommend one of the adjustable mandrels. All mandrels will bend, but the shorter you can make it, the less tendency it has to bend. I only turn one barrel at a time.
- Bushings that match the pen kit you are using.
- You should have a 60-degree center in your tail stock - yet I used the stock one on my jet mini for a long time.
- A way to drill the blanks, and the proper sized drill bit.
- Glue, to glue in the brass tubes. Many use CA. However, I use gorilla glue on woods and epoxy on everything non-wood. CA can be brittle.
- A way to square the end of the blanks
- As far as tooling - you can use most tools you already have. I have evolved into using a 5/8" spindle gouge for most of the roughing and a 1/2" or 3/4" oval skew for finishing cuts.
- Various grits of sand paper. I tend to sand to 600 on wood, and use a 'plastic finishing kit' up to 12000 on acrylics. You can also use automotive polishing compound to shine up acrylics.
- Adding a little boiled linseed oil really pops grain on wood.
- Finally, you need to use some kind of vise/press/clamp to assemble the pen.

That is really all you 'need'.

As far as where to purchase pen kits.
The pricier options, but possibly local to you are Rockler and Woodcraft.

As far as internet, here are some I have had good luck with:
- PSI resellers - Woodnwhimsies and Woodturningz - everything PSI sells, but for less
- Generally nicer quality and kits - Arizona Silhouette, Craft Supplies, The Golden Nib, Lau Lau Woodworks

There are others, too.

You can also venture into the IAP forum and see that everything I said above is really only the beginning....

Good luck.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I have used a mandrel for at least 400 pens and have had no problem with wobble. You need to buy a quality mandrel such as the ones Beara Hardwoods sells. I also have a adjustable mandrel which is extemely nice for the one blank pen kits. You will need a livecenter with a 60* point. The problem is if you put to much pressure with the tailstock you can warp the mandrel. Each pen kit will have it's own set of bushings, different size drill bits, etc. I use CA but don't like it much for the smell. I also use lacquer that I wipe on while still on the lathe with excellent results. I also use Enduro sanding sealer followed by Enduro poly from Ernie at Beartooth Woods. Gives a good finish but most people don't like it because it does take a day or two longer to finish. I have a pen finished with it. Carried it now for 3 yrs everyday to work and still looks great. I use a pen vise and a drill press to drill my blanks. I don't worry about being dead center because the the lathe will make it round. Have fun and enjoy. A pen press is a good thing but there are other alternatives.

[Horst Hohoff]

I started penturning using a mandrel of course, but after finding out, that
the mandrel was responsible for my "oval" pens, I got off using it completely.
I use a ER32 collet chuck ( which is handy for a lot of other things as well )
put a pointed dowel in and turn between centers ( and true up everytime I
rechuck it ). I got off using bushings as well and use calipers. Takes a bit
more time, but I'm not a production turner.
By using the collet chuck I can square the ends with a scraper.
I always drill the blanks on the lathe, again using the collet chuck.
Drilling from both sides prevents blowout with problematic blanks.

Horst

[David Walser]

Matt,

I think you'll find pen turning addictive. As you've already seen, there's no "one right way" to turn a pen. Exploring the different methods is one of the things that keeps pen turning fresh and fun.

To get started, you might be well served to look at the starter kits available from the major kit suppliers. Even if you don't buy one of the kits, looking at the kit contents will help you learn what the kit sellers think most people will "need" to start turning pens. You might be able to save some money by buying everything in a package -- or you might save some money by NOT buying a kit if you already have some of the items included in a kit. For example, Craft Supplies USA, has three different starter packages. Their high-end kit includes everything you'd need except a lathe -- including sandpaper. Other suppliers, have similar kits.

Here's a link to CSUSA's kits: http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/store/Pen_Making___Starter_Sets?Args=&page_number=1

Good luck!

[Matt Ranum]

Thanks for all the advice guys, I definitely have some more home work to do. As far as suppliers go, the closest Woodcraft is about 70 miles away and Rockler is closer to 150 away so internet looks as good as anything.

[Greg Ketell]

Arizona Silhouette, Craft Supplies USA, Wood-n-Whimsies, Penturner's Products. These are all top-notch vendors with great stuff to help make great pens. There are many many more, but these ones will get you well stocked and well started.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

1) Actually you would be better served by skipping the mandrel and turning between centers. Much less wobble resulting in round pens rather than oval pens. You can start with a mandrel, if you like. But if you get serious about pens you will end up between centers.

How do you turn a pen between centers without a mandrel?

[Greg Ketell]

For pen kits with tubes greater than 7mm, you can just insert the bushings into the tube and then hold the bushings between your dead and live centers. For 7mm based pens you will need to make your own "bushings" that insert into the tube with a shoulder just like the bigger-than-7mm bushings. Or you can buy the very high quality custom bushings from Penturner's Products web site. You won't find better or more accurate bushings anywhere. But be prepared to spend money. I buy these for the higher-end kits I make.

GK




How do you turn a pen between centers without a mandrel?

[Kyle Iwamoto]

INteresting. Why would that be better than a good mandel? Can turn both segments with 1 chuck up. That would require 2 chuck ups. But it would appear to be more stable. I did have a junk mandrel before, and it did result is some frustration. I got a better mandrel from PSI. And I mostly turn slimlines.

Thnaks for the info though. If I turn the big blanks, will think about that.

[Dan Forman]

I too turn pens between centers. I was getting out of round barrels that were flush with the hardware some places, and proud or below it in others. Not saying that some folks don't get good results with mandrels, just that I seem to do better without them, and don't trust them to be accurate. I don't even trust the stock bushings much beyond the rounding off stage. When I start getting close, I take the bushings off, and just have the centers seat in the tubes. I always have to take of a little bit of the blanks to true them up after removing the bushings. I measure the pen part I'm trying to match with a dial caliper, then use it to measure the turning. Sometimes I get it right, sometimes not. But I still have a better chance than depending on the stock bushings, which are sometimes a little off, as are the pen parts, and never fit snugly in the tubes. I also don't transfer meatl particles to light colored blanks from sanding the bushings.

The bushings Greg is talking about are precision turned on a cnc lathe, and fit the tubes so precisely that when you push in the second one, the first is forced up a bit from the compressed air. When you remove one, there is an audible "pop". They are spendy however, and certainly not necessary when you are first getting started. If you do as I described above, you don't need them at all.

There are numerous threads over on the International Association of Penturners website about turning between centers. They also do a lot of group buys from the major distributors, and have some very nice blanks for sale by members, that are often better than anything you will find in a store. It's just a great resource for pen turners.

The absolute winner for best bang for the buck in pen turning tools is the humble center drill... http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1230

They have a 60 degree countersink, and will not budge when entering the wood. I use them to drill each side of a blank prior to rounding them off between centers, and then have a hole started for drilling on the lathe (held in a collet chuck), thus preventing wandering bit syndrome. I also hold the bit steady with my hand to aid in getting a good true start. It's amazing how the bit wants to wander, even with the hole started by the centerdrill.

In the end, pen turning can be as simple or complicated as you want it to be. So, you don't need all that much to get going, but you may eventually get to the point where you want to chase that last little bit of precision. It just depends on how much of a perfectionist you are.

For a nice kit that you can use for either pencils or pens, and not too skinny or too fat, I like the "Perfect Fit" made by Berea, and sold by Arizona Silhouette Arizona (http://www.arizonasilhouette.com/)

The best wearing platings are the more expensive ones, platinum, rhodium, titanium, titanium gold, and black titanium. Chrome is also long wearing and relatively inexpensive, but is not always offered. The various genuine gold platings are among the least durable.

Dan

[Gary Herrmann]

I've always used a mandrel - no ovals. I wonder if a lot of the ovals are due to too much tailstock pressure.

[Dan Forman]

I've always used a mandrel - no ovals. I wonder if a lot of the ovals are due to too much tailstock pressure.

Gary---Could be that, could be the mandrel stock isn't true to begin with, or a host of other things I suppose. I guess the ones who have good success with them got a good one, and set it up correctly.

Dan