I've got a drill decision - could use some advice

[Mike Rees]

Hey Gang,

So, while building out my work bench I discovered that 1 of the batteries in my current drill is more than likely shot. I have the Makita 6217DWDE. It seems to have decent torque for a 12V rig - its very close in output to its bigger brother 6337DWDE. When I bought it 2.5 years ago, I figured I wasn't giving up that much oomph for the weight / cost savings (at the time the price differance was larger than it is today).

So, in pricing batteries I quickly discovered what most of you already have - for the price of 2 new batteries I can pretty much just re-purchase the exact same drill I have for 20 bucks more. But ...

Should I?

I've always liked my Makita, and w/ the NiMH batteries I don't have to stay on top of them very much (though obviously throwing them in the charger once a month for a good 12 hours was probably something I should have done in retrospect). The battery I had left in my drill most of the time never failed to run even if it sat for long periods. Once charged, it performed just fine.

Since I'm going to be building a shed next spring (among some other side projects), I started to wonder if I should jump up to the 14.4 V models. I began to see that most manufacturers are moving from 14.4 V to 18 V. It seems my 2 options for 14.4 are the bigger brother Makita or the DeWalt DCD920KX.

I know what I'm getting w/ the Makita - in fact given the rather small bump in torque between the 14.4V and 12V makita I might even just rebuy the drill I have and use one to drill and one to fasten.

I like the way the DeWalt feels and it seems like its a stronger tool from what I read in the reviews. The thing that gives me pause is the XRP batteries. If I read the user manual correctly, if I'm not using this tool every day for a living I have to plug the batteries in 1x a week and let them maintance charge for a good number of hours. Otherwise the battery performance will suffer until I recondition the batteries (which would kind of put a time dent on my projects?).

So what say you guys? Is my read on the DeWalt tool accurate or should I stay w/ the Makita line?

Mike

[Tom Veatch]

You like your existing drill, but don't want the expense of new batteries. Seems like an obvious choice is to rebuild your existing batteries for $40 - $50.

http://mtobattery.com/store/page2.html
http://stores.ebay.com/Battery-Pack-Rebuilders-LLC
http://www.primecell.com/pctools.htm

I'm very happy with the 12v Ryobi and 18v DeWalt batteries I've had rebuilt. I think the first link above is an SMC denizen, but I'll not swear to it.

[David Freed]

I'm not sure what an XRP battery is, but with the description you gave, it sounds like old technology. This is the drill I intend to get.

http://www.cpomakita.com/drills/18v_cordless_drills/bhp454.html?ref=googaw&kw={keyword}&gclid=COWNwLmF2Z0CFR9N5QodyRdpyQ&keyword=bhp454&sissr=1

According to an independant test and review, it recharges in 15 minutes, drills more 1" holes and drives more 3" screws into a 4"x4" and holds a charge while stored longer than the other 9 drill brands tested. They gave it the "best drill" award.

P.S.

You like your existing drill, but don't want the expense of new batteries. Seems like an obvious choice is to rebuild your existing batteries for $40 - $50.
I didn't know you could do that. Sounds like a winner to me.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Read a lot of positive reviews on the Makita black drills, but there is $$ involved.
BTW - I learned your lesson some years ago, so I got extra batteries when I was forced to buy new gear - same issue you are facing. One dead and gone. Others sruising fine.

[Mike Rees]

Read a lot of positive reviews on the Makita black drills, but there is $$ involved.
BTW - I learned your lesson some years ago, so I got extra batteries when I was forced to buy new gear - same issue you are facing. One dead and gone. Others sruising fine.

This one? http://www.amazon.com/Makita-BDF452HW-Lithium-Ion-Cordless-Driver-Drill/dp/B000K6ILDW/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1256506954&sr=8-4

[Buck Williams]

I don't know if you are close to an HD, they currently have an in store deal, bring in your old drill and get 15% off a new coedless drill. The Makita BDF452H mentioned is a sweet drill.

[David Freed]

Here is the Amazon link.
http://www.amazon.com/Makita-BHP454-18-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Cordless/dp/B001EYUQM8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1256507980&sr=1-1

The 454 costs $100 more because it has 560 in/lb of torque is a hammer drill. The 452 has 450 and isn't. With Makita's reputation the 452 might be a good choice for the price, but I haven't seen any comparison tests on it.

[Mike Rees]

Here is the Amazon link.
http://www.amazon.com/Makita-BHP454-18-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Cordless/dp/B001EYUQM8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1256507980&sr=1-1

The 454 costs $100 more because it has 560 in/lb of torque is a hammer drill. The 452 has 450 and isn't. With Makita's reputation the 452 might be a good choice for the price also, but I haven't seen any comparison tests on it.

Definitely don't need a hammerdrill - but I'm wondering if these silver units have the same stoutness built into them as the teal colored ones I'm used to seeing?

[Mike Rees]

I don't know if you are close to an HD, they currently have an in store deal, bring in your old drill and get 15% off a new coedless drill. The Makita BDF452H mentioned is a sweet drill.

Oh, I have one 5 minutes away from the house - except once you figure tax back into the equation it ends up being pretty much equal to what I can buy it for from Amazon. Plus, I can keep my current drill if I choose. I think the HD thing is a good deal if you need it *NOW*. At least for this particular drill.

[Matt Stiegler]

I know what I'm getting w/ the Makita - in fact given the rather small bump in torque between the 14.4V and 12V makita I might even just rebuy the drill I have and use one to drill and one to fasten.



If it were me, and I were happy with the drill I had, I'd probably do this, have the convenience of two drills, and spend the savings on some other marginally necessary tool instead.

[David Freed]

Makita 18V BHP454 | $329

http://media.popularmechanics.com/images/makita-18v-12078.jpg

Amp-Hour: 3.0 / Weight: 4.9 lb. / 3-in. drywall screws: 227

What we liked ----All three testers agreed the Makita was one of the best
------------------power tools they’d ever used. Some talented engineers
------------------designed its high-torque motor and drive­train to squeeze
------------------every ounce of performance from the battery. It also
------------------exhibits excellent industrial design. For a large and heavy
------------------drill, it’s well-balanced and handles easily due to a nicely
------------------shaped handle with lots of rubber overmold.

What we didn't ---The switch to change from hammer (http://www.popularmechanics.com/home_journal/tools/4292657.html#) to the drill or drive
------------------functions is just too hard to slide.

Bottom Line-------• • • • • BEST OVERALL

I would guess the 452 would rate pretty high also because it is the same design; just a little smaller.

[Scot Ferraro]

You could take your drill to Home Depot and get 15% off the purchase of a new Lithium Ion drill -- that's what I did today with my 9 year old Makita that was failing me...bought a new 14.4 volt Hilti -- expensive, yes, but not all that much more than some of the other offerings and it felt great. Has plenty of torque and power to boot.

Scot

[Brandon Weiss]

I bought a Ridgid Drill from HD a while back. The arbor was bent, a manufacturer problem they had not yet solved, so I took it back in and the guy working there persuaded me to buy a Milwaukee M18 drill. I like it so much I bought another one off Ebay (tool only, I already had 2 batteries that last forever and charge in a jiff) so I can have dedicated drill and fastener drills on hand during a project.

I've heard good things about Makita. I work at a place, aerospace company, and they use Makita drills. My advice, whatever you do is to first go on Ebay and buy some 10% off coupons for Lowes. They work at either HD or Lowes. You can usually pick up 10 of the coupons for 10 bucks including shipping, sometimes cheaper. That means by the time you buy your drill from HD or Lowes you'll have already made your money back and then some on the coupon purchase. Then, I highly recommend the Milwaukee. I love it. But, if you prefer the Makita, well, use the 10% off coupon to purchase your Makita!!

[Julian Nicks]

I've had this (http://www.amazon.com/Makita-LCT200W-18-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Cordless/dp/B000V2DSE2) combo for just over a year, and use it daily on the job. It's a great set to have if you ever need to install cabinets. The power and duration of the small AA batteries is pretty amazing, and outlasts the nicad 18v dewalt drill that my coworker uses. When the batteries crap out in another year or less, I will be rebuilding the pack myself to save big money over buying a new one. I used to race rc cars and have built many matched cell battery packs in my time and it's very easy to do.

[Dan Karachio]

I think this day is coming for many of us. What to do? For me I'll probably go with new lithium ion - I imagine they will drop in price as time goes by.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

For cordless
Take a long hard look at Panasonic
Then at Bosch

[michael osadchuk]

mike,

12 v. nicad battery packs should definitely not die after only two and a half years, especially since you clearly were not using the drill daily...... so switching to replacement batteries from a reliable source might be an idea ....unless you belive the charger be screwed up, overcharging the batteries?

the 18 v. lithium black n white Makita combo that Julien and others have mentioned is what I have and is super.... the impact driver got the best rating in a www.toolsofthetrade.com article a year or so ago.... I also saw a top rating of the driver drill in one of the woodworking magazine a month ago.... the 1.5amp battery pack makes for a super light weight/small form package yet lasts a long time (unless you are a pro working on a remote jobsite).....

other companies are coming out with the same lion powered, small battery 18 v. combos as well

good luck

michael

[Kent A Bathurst]

Yep. Him. Caveat - Don't have one - just read about it.

[Mike Holbrook]

My old 18 volt Makita batteries are gone. I bought a Makita 14 volt Impact Driver and Drill set at the Atlanta woodworking show a few years ago, just before the lithium drills came out. The 14 volt Makita Impact Driver seems over powered to me. I have a hard time not driving screws out the far side of boards when I use it.

I have a 12 volt Hitachi Impact Driver that I have driven countless screws with during several good size building projects, maybe I just got use to it's touch and feel. I do a fair amount of construction though and 12 volts seems like plenty for driving screws up to 3" and even drilling pilot holes. I can't imagine needing 18 volts for driving screws or pilot holes. If I want to drill a big hole I'm going for the big corded Bosh or the new Milwaukee angle drill. Or maybe the new/vintage Millers Falls Brace I won on Ebay and an auger bit. Sometimes the auger bits in the big Bosh try to turn me.

I think my next battery drill will be a Lithium 12 volt, maybe even less. I am about to try driving screws with the 'hand Drills" I got on Ebay. There are about 200 screws & bolts needed to put up a 50' x 24' party tent. Then I have to replace walls and flooring in my 8' x12' chicken house to convert it to a home for German Shepherd pups... Then I have to enclose a 21' x 16' area under a porch, shees that's a bunch of screws.....

Maybe I will have to run one of my old drills up to the depot and do the trade in for a new Lithium Drill. When you are driving as many screws as I do you start to feel the weight of a big drill by the end of the day, sometimes sooner ;-} The 14 volt Makita I bought last does not seem much less powerful than the old, original 18 volt Makita I have. It has been several more years so I am guessing a 12 volt may be comparable to an older 14.... but then all the drills have gotten lighter too....Maybe I'll play around with braces and drill accessories.

[Neal Clayton]

Definitely don't need a hammerdrill - but I'm wondering if these silver units have the same stoutness built into them as the teal colored ones I'm used to seeing?

no, they don't.

i've used both. the green ones are generally heftier, stronger, batteries last longer, etc. that's why they cost 100 more.

i have the one david linked on the previous page. a couple of days a week, i use it for 6+ hours a day. holds a charge on one battery that long usually, might have to switch to the spare late in the afternoon. have dropped it ~30 feet onto a concrete driveway while hanging windows once, still works ;).

[Mike Rees]

For cordless
Take a long hard look at Panasonic
Then at Bosch

I'm intrigued by the 15.6 Panasonic NiMH rig. Aside from being married to Amazon or online to by batteries (HD and Lowes don't seem to carry these), the only thing I can see that gives me pause is apparently there is some plastic/nylon in the motor? http://www.cordless-drill-reviews.com/panasonic-ey6432gqkw.html

Lots of online reviewers rave about these drills, but on a part by part basis it seems the Makitas (at least the teal ones) and the DeWalts have more metal in them.

Probably doesn't matter for a DIY guy like me, but if the money is equivalent the question might as well be asked.

[Chris Gurko]

I have had Ridgid drills for about 6 years now. Hammerdrills, to imapct drivers.

I just picked up the latest deal from HD and got the 18v Fuego drill (wired magazine rated it #2 with bosch coming in just ahead of that), 2 li-ion battteries, a light and the charger for $199, plus I sent int he rebate for the family and friends deal.

My first Ridgid was a 18v drill. I just gave it to my dad along with the lifetime warranty.

So, I have had dewalt drills - 18v hammer drill, 14v driver, 18v driver... Hands down I like the Ridgid better.

Also, that little fuego packs a MEAN punch! very very strong.. anyhow.. for the money, warranty and quality, I couldnt find a better product.

[Brice Burrell]

I remember reading about the older first generation of the black/white/silver Makitas having trouble with the batteries and the chuck. I believe the issues has been worked on, the batteries are improved but not working out for everyone, the chuck issue seems to be resolved. If you do decide to go with one of these drills make sure you get a second generation model, I have no idea if there is an easy way to know the difference between them.

[Mike Rees]

I remember reading about the older first generation of the black/white/silver Makitas having trouble with the batteries and the chuck. I believe the issues has been worked on, the batteries are improved but not working out for everyone, the chuck issue seems to be resolved. If you do decide to go with one of these drills make sure you get a second generation model, I have no idea if there is an easy way to know the difference between them.

I'm leaning away from the black/white Makita given what I'm reading about the batteries the some have (remember, I'm not using this every day so a flaky battery is not something I'll notice until after the point of my being able to return it). Plus, my battery issue is what got me here in the first place. After reading many forums like this, I think I may have caused the premature battery failure - I've been running my tool down to absolute 0 before recharging it. Also, I don't recharge it before I use it, I'll just pull it out of the box and start running it until I drain it. Apparently I'm supposed to charge when I see a drop off in power, and popping it on the charger to top it off before I use it is not taboo anymore.

Maybe the XRP DeWalt isn't bad after all. NiCd has a slower discharge rate over time then NiMH, and the DeWalt charger has tech in it to maintain the bat on trickle as well as equalize the cells after initial charge. Plus I can get batteries at Depot or Lowes if I was in a pinch.

Hrm.

[Don Jarvie]

I have the Makita Black Combo like Julian describes and couldn't be happier. The impact driver is awesome and can drive 3 inch screws easily.

I usae the drill more as a drill or if I have to drive something more carefully. The impact drive is more brute strength but so useful.

[Brice Burrell]

......Maybe the XRP DeWalt isn't bad after all. NiCd has a slower discharge rate over time then NiMH, and the DeWalt charger has tech in it to maintain the bat on trickle as well as equalize the cells after initial charge. Plus I can get batteries at Depot or Lowes if I was in a pinch.

Hrm.

Mike, I've good luck with my DeWalt 18V XRP drills, I've gotten 5 year or so out my batteries with almost everyday use as a general contractor. The drills are tough and have been a decent value but really heavy. I have since changed them out for the new Festool T-15 drill. So far the the T-15 has been a nearly perfect tool and accessory chucks are great. Super light. Of course they cost. This is a good drill of the hobbyist with a nice tool budget because the batteries hold their charge so well while not in use.

[Scot Ferraro]

Check out Hilti too -- great warranty and a little less money than some of the other premium brands, but a little more than Makita's and DeWalts (although not all that much more). If you mess up a battery after the warranty, they will replace it for no more than 30% of the cost of a new tool -- this is in year 3 or year 10...seems like good service to me. I have not had a chance to put it through its paces, but I tested one with a huge Auger bit at HD and it worked very well and held its charge after several holes. With the 15% HD discount, it was a good deal for a premium tool (IMHO).

Good luck,

Scot

[Chris McGee]

I have had dewalt 18v xrp tools with Nicad batteries forever, love them. All my batteries are near the end of their lives tho, have been thinking about replacing the old nicads with dewalts new NANO-phosphate lithium ion batteries that are backwards compatible with all their old tools, but they cost a pretty penny ($130 a pack plus a new charger).

I have used my 10.8v bosch lithium pocket driver drill (PS20) for 2 years now and love the batteries, they hold their charge even if you let them set for 6 months or more.
So after dismissing the notion of dewalts lithium bats due to cost, I was about to have my old packs rebuilt until I found this sale over at toolking http://www.toolking.com/dewalt_dc927klr_reconditioned_18_volt_cordless_ham mer_drill.aspx I could buy this combo and sell the drill on ebay for $50 or better and have 2 new lithium packs and a charger for $150. If I was in the market for a new drill I would pick this one up at $210, its a steal! I paid $160 for my little Bosch.

Also, have you considered a impact driver? Once you have used one to drive screws you'll never go back to a drill, Honest. I rarely use my drill anymore, only with paddle bits and hole saws. I have a keyless chuck I can put in my impact for drill bits. With the impact you can drive 3"+ screws limp-wristed, up on a ladder leaning over 3ft to the side on your tip toes, no problem.:D
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/picture.php?albumid=250&pictureid=2452

[Mike Rees]

I'm down to these 2:

Dewalt DCD920KX - 14.4V, metal chuck, XRP Batteries
Dewalt DCD760KL - 18V, plastic chuck, compact LiIon Batterie

The 920KX is built more stout, but for my needs the 760KL is probably just fine.

I'm told that the DCD760KL is also sold at your local HD, though I can't find the model on their website. This tool is also not listed on the qualifying skus for 15% Li Ion trade up, but I might be able to talk a manager into letting me in on the deal.

As I understand it, since this tool will go weeks or months between bursts of decent use, if I got the 920KX I'd have to put the batteries on the charger for a good 6 hours or so every month or so to keep the NiCads conditioned (1 hour quick charge, 3 hours maintenance leveling, remainder trickle).

If I got the 760KL, I could pretty much punt on the maintenance and use the tool whenver I needed it (low discharge rate on LiIon).

[Mike Rees]

I've decided to go w/ the DCD760KL. This seems perfect for what I intend to use it for.

Very good video from the DeWalt site:

http://www.dewalt.com/compact/video.htm

This is the kind of company that I want to support w/ my hard earned $$.

Thanks for all your input in this guys.

Mike

[John Skibo]

FWW had a test on 18v compact drills, Makita BDF452HW won best value and performance.
I am getting the driver impact combo from Amazon,
http://www.amazon.com/Makita-LCT200W-18-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Cordless/dp/B000V2DSE2/ref=cm_cr_pr_sims_t

$15 more and you get an impact driver for screws. free shipping too.
It comes with 1.5 amp batteries, you can use the 3 amp ones too, $113 a pair , $65 each.

The teal colored tools are industrial grade for contractors,
Am in the exact same boat as you, I did research thought this might help