I hate power sanding

[Mike Schueler]

Really, I hate everything about power sanding. I have tried two different sanders, and currently use a porter cable ROS with grits from 50 to 220, and every time I pull the sander out my bottom lip comes out too. I hate the noise, the dust, and the fact I wear so much protective gear for such a wimpy little machine. Plus, its boring as heck. Lastly I firmly believe that my finished product is duller from sanding than a cut surface, no matter how fine the final grit is. I swear I see better figure from maple etc when it's cut from my planer that when I finally get done destroying it.

Currently I have only have Veritas' low angle jack plane, which I have been using to great effect in flattening panels and getting stuff nearly smooth. I actually enjoy running this across wood.


However, on somewhat larger panels (25 x 35 inches or so), it doesn't get "finish" smooth. It leaves tracks that are small but are very much there. I am sure a lot of my technique is a problem, as I am figuring all this out without formal instruction. However, I have a very sharp blade and can adjust this thing to get a ribbon of wood essentially translucent. I find myself using the sander from coarse to fine grits anyway to erase the plane marks. Right now, it's still an advantage for me to use the jack plane because it really does cut down in the sanding time to "erase" the transition between glued boards.

My question is this: wil the Veritas belly-up smooth plane make my life different? Can I almost toss out my sandpaper?

I have a cabinet scraper, but I need remedial work on it. That's another subject....

[Casey Gooding]

I agree with you on sanding. It's just a big noisy, dirty mess.
I don't have much experience with bevel up planes, but I'll try to help. Sounds like you need to put a slight camber on the plane. It should be just a few thousandths. Don't try to do this on a grinder, just apply a little more pressure on the corners when you are honing.
Plane tracks are probably still going to happen, just less. Many people uses scrapers to smooth out the tracks.
I see a definite benefit in using a smooth plane for final finishing. A small smooth plane will ride slight peaks and valleys better than a longer planes. Therefore, they will be able to make consistent cuts rather than trying to flatten the panel. You also get the added benefit of shimmery wood rather than dull, abraded wood.
Good luck.

[Prashun Patel]

The BEVEL up smoother is the same configuration as the low angle jack. It won't help you get better results - except on smaller pieces where the jack's too big.

Track marks are due to the blade. Try cambering the corners a little and backing the cut off ever so slightly - something which is easy to do on those LV planes.

[Phillip Pattee]

Amen Brother! Preach it. Out with the tailed demon. :eek: That whole sander thing is also what got me interested in hand tools. Take a look at the news from Brother Derek Cohen http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/TheSecretToCamberinBUPlaneBlades.html He addresses putting camber on bevel up blades to eliminate plane tracks.

[george wilson]

I use a Fein vacuum connected to my sanders. It lets hardly ANY dust escape at all. The vacuum turns on when the sander starts,and turns off a few seconds after the sander is turned off.

My half sheet sander of choice is my Fein . It goes 21,000 orbits per minute and cuts like crazy. Thing is,they are now $705.00.

I had to make an aluminum adaptor for it to hook up to my Fein vac. hose. I don't know why it didn't come with such a hook up.

If you got a Fein vac,you wouldn't hate sanding so much. They aren't very loud,and are very powerful. I don't find my Fein half sheet that noisy either,and it doesn't vibrate a lot either. Has huge ball bearings in it,and is well counter weighted against vibration.

All that said,I have made some furniture left with fine hand planed surfaces on them. The blade is sharpened with an extremely slight convexity,and very fine shavings are removed from the final surfacing.

The hand planed surfaces give a nice touch to the surfaces if done right. You can just barely feel them with the hand.

[Harlan Barnhart]

Currently I have only have Veritas' low angle jack plane, which I have been using to great effect in flattening panels and getting stuff nearly smooth. I actually enjoy running this across wood.

I think I see more planes in your future. :) Cabinet scrapers can do wonders if properly cared for. I have found them harder to maintain than a plane. BUT well worth the effort.

[Mike Schueler]

Ok, I read the link on doing cambers.

I am a little dismayed. I use the veritas Mk II guide to set my angle on some water stones I have.

I don't have a belt sander or grinder that I can grind bevels or camber with; also, the web page mentions that 50 degrees shouldn't have a camber, and my iron is ground at 50 degrees.

I read above that pressure on the corners is enough, but there isn't much iron protruding from the guide at 50 degrees. Also, do I start at like 325 to grind a camber, then proceed with "corner pressure" all the way to 8000?

Thanks for advice....also, last question do you think the a regular bevel down smoothing plan (ie LN) would be a better complement to the bevel up Jack?

Thanks!

[David Gendron]

IMO, you have the right tool... maybe you should buy the 38 degree blane from LV and be done with it... As for shapping the camber, you are right about finger presure from coars to fine on the water stones! If you consider buying a dedicated smoothing plane, I would keep in the same line and brand as your jack, because you can interchange the blades from on an other so you can have all three irons, that would make the job of "six" planes... Kind of!
You can find more info on sharpenning in the new book"handplane essentials" from Chris Shwarz.
Good luck

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks for advice....also, last question do you think the a regular bevel down smoothing plan (ie LN) would be a better complement to the bevel up Jack?

Actually, the best compliment to the Veritas LV jack is the BEVEL UP smoother (not the "LA smoother", misleadingly). All three of these planes use the same width blade, so you can interchange them. The jack ships with a 25 degree bevel, but the smoother ships with a 38degree bevel.

The LA jointer also has an interchangeable blade and some get the 50 degree blade. You essentially have 9 different planes that way... I expect John Keeton to swoop in anytime with an 'Amen'.

[Eric Brown]

Don't forget the toothed blades available. IMO it turns the plane into a scrub quickly and gets tough wood down where a smoother can finish.

Eric

[george wilson]

You really don't need to grind your irons into a curve. The curve is so slight that you can hone them in with a coarse stone. Remember,the center of the iron only protrudes a few thousanths for finish planing.I just hone mine harder on the corners till I get the VERY slight curve that lets the corners disappear on each end of the iron.

Some like to gently round the corners,but I prefer to gently round the iron. That way,the cut fades away to nothing on the corners,leaving no tracks at all.

If I'm making furniture of an informal,but nice style out of pine (usually),I just leave the hand planed surface as the final surface. Done right,it leaves an authentic,and charming surface. You can barely feel it with your hands.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I use a Fein vacuum connected to my sanders. It lets hardly ANY dust escape at all. The vacuum turns on when the sander starts,and turns off a few seconds after the sander is turned off.

+1 on Fein dust collection performance. I use it with PC 5" ROS. Also have a JDS dust filter unit over the benches, on a 1-hr timer. Not the same results as planes in some applications - point is that you can manage the dust. Plus - for $300 - $400, get some Bose noise-cancelling headphones, couple audio extension cords, hook up to the laptop, turn on the bluegrass music, open a beer, and the noise is irrelevant. I still hate sanding, so I find other entertainment while I am doing it.

[Michael Schwartz]

Really, I hate everything about power sanding. I have tried two different sanders, and currently use a porter cable ROS with grits from 50 to 220, and every time I pull the sander out my bottom lip comes out too. I hate the noise, the dust, and the fact I wear so much protective gear for such a wimpy little machine. Plus, its boring as heck. Lastly I firmly believe that my finished product is duller from sanding than a cut surface, no matter how fine the final grit is. I swear I see better figure from maple etc when it's cut from my planer that when I finally get done destroying it.
Try to avoid anything below 80 grit as your just going to create an infinite cycle of more work. I normally start at 100 grit, and really only resort to 80 if I have very heavy machine marks or damage to remove. A ROS leves scratches accross the grain so make sure you hand sand with the grain after your final grit. You will be surprised how this will clear up the grain of allot of woods.

Grits below 80, ie 50, 30 etc... are for abrasive planing and very aggressive shaping. They won't make your work go any faster as they produce very coarse scratches you will have to remove with the next grit.


My question is this: wil the Veritas belly-up smooth plane make my life
different? Can I almost toss out my sandpaper?

I have the bevel up smoother and it does produce a very nice surface. If you feel the need to you can follow up with a card scraper, and possibly lightly hand sand with some 220 if you need need to.

I have a cabinet scraper, but I need remedial work on it. That's another subject....

Google is your friend here, there are alot of forum posts etc.. on how to sharpen a card scraper. When you know it is sharp it will easily produce quite a bit of shavings. When they are dull they only produce a few shavings, and or mostly dust. Other than that when they are sharp the learning curve is fast!


I still sand quite frequently in my shop depending on what I am making. I do prefer the finish of plane or card-scraper, and often scraping is much faster depending on what your doing. I use a fesstool ROS with CT33 vacuum so there is almost no dust, but I started out with a porter cable like yours.

[Mike Schueler]

Thanks for everyone's help...it will be a little while but I'll check back in a few weeks and let you know how it's working out.