Double-stopped rabbets with hand tools

[Larry Marshall]

When one builds a framed-glass door, it's possible to use a router to cut the rabbets that will hold the glass. These rabbets are 'stopped' on each end because of the mortise/tenon joinery that holds the frame together.

Its occurred to me that my way of doing these with hand tools might not be the best so I'm asking how the experts do this sort of thing. In the case of both rails and styles the work should be long grain. What's the best approach?

Cheers --- Larry

[Bill Houghton]

but I know a lot of boat builders use a gouge and chisel. I used to have an issue of "Wooden Boat" that explained how to make a rabbet-cutting gouge from one of those automotive lug wrenches that appear in the tool pile at every third garage sale.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Larry

Here is a quick tutorial - an extract ffrom my records of a current wardrobe I am building. This uses a dovetailed carcase (through- and sliding dovetails). The rear of the carcase is rebated. This is the aspect of interest to you.

With the exception of ripping boards to width on the tablesaw, and power thicknessing, all else is done by hand.

The cabinet has a 3/8" deep rebate on all sides at the rear for the attachment of the rear panel. The rear panel will be made up of hardwood boards joined with half-laps.

It is not the ideal method to do this - mitred dovetail corners would have been better, however they just did not fit in with the design, so I used a stopped rebate at the upper panel (the lower panel is held together with a sliding dovetail, which is hidden under a plinth) ...

Note that the carcase only requires stopped rebates on the two opposite sides. The other opposing side used through rebates. Your window frame will be slightly different - longer stopped rebates.

Preliminary:

Mark and saw the ends ..

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Joints/Stopped%20rebate/2.jpg

.. then undercut this with a chisel ..


Pic 1: Do as much as can be done with rebate plane (until it no longer cuts)...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Furniture/Dovetail%20Cabinet/Rebates/Stoppedrebate1.jpg

Note: On other occasions I have done this entirely with a router plane.

Pic 2: Finish off with a router plane ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Furniture/Dovetail%20Cabinet/Rebates/Stoppedrebate2.jpg

Pic 3: Completed stopped rebate (of course I later discovered that I needed to extend the rebate by 1/4" to match the end of the through rebates on the adjacent ends!) ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Furniture/Dovetail%20Cabinet/Rebates/Stoppedrebate3.jpg

Hope this helps.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Robert Rozaieski]

The easiest way is not to use a stopped rabbet. Instead, use through rabbets and trim the sticking on the frame where the rail meets the stile as pictured below.
http://www.woodcentral.com/content/vpix_ht/pic136413.gif

[Larry Marshall]

Here is a quick tutorial - an extract ffrom my records of a current wardrobe I am building. This uses a dovetailed carcase (through- and sliding dovetails). The rear of the carcase is rebated. This is the aspect of

Derek, you always amaze me with your photos and complete explanations. Yours is definitely a better approach than my own, which has involved far too much chiseling. I suspect that some of my "direction" has come from the fact that my solution to creating a rabbet comes in the form of a Stanley #78 and I've never been pleased with how poorly the fence works on that tool.

Cheers --- Larry

[Larry Marshall]

The easiest way is not to use a stopped rabbet.

It's always best to avoid a problem than have to solve it. I've done what you've suggested in the past. But, and correct me if I'm wrong, if you need to make a "square" joint with no internal molding detail, you're stuck with having to doing stopped dados. Otherwise the style will be inset into the rail by the depth of the rabbet. The same is true in the graphic you present but this is concealed by the trim line.
http://www.woodnbits.com/images/frame.jpg
Cheers --- Larry

[David Keller NC]

Larry - Rob's actually correct here. If you examine furniture from the age of hand work, it's extremely rare to find a stopped rabbet. What was done instead was to cut the rabbets all the way through on both the stile and rail, and use haunched tenons to fill in the void at the end of the stile

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Larry

Here is another tutorial (on my website), this time by Sean Hughto on "Making a Frame and Panel Door". This may provide some ideas (just modify the groove to become a rabbet). Essentially, this is what Robert is recommending (which I think is the correct way to do the task).

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/Making%20a%20frame%20and%20panel%20door_html_m4aa3 fe7e.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/Making%20a%20frame%20and%20panel%20door.html

Alternately, just attach a bead with glue and pins to create the rabbet.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Caspar Hauser]

A haunched tenon is your only man.

(my apologies to Flann O'Brien)

CH

[Larry Marshall]

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/Making%20a%20frame%20and%20panel%20door.html

Alternately, just attach a bead with glue and pins to create the rabbet.


<grin>..if I wanted a bead I would do just that. But I want a very clean, Krenov-looking cabinet door. No inside detailing, just a clean, sharp glass/wood edge. This is the reason I asked the question in the first place. I've done F&P doors with a bead and have done them the way you and Bob have suggested. But without the bead, I see no alternative to stopped rabbets.

Could be the main reason you don't see these "modern" doors in early furniture is that they didn't have those spin-fast, make-lotsa-noise routers to do the stopped dados. I have to admit that the thought of doing 8 of these with my poor fillister plane isn't appealing.

Cheers --- Larry

[Larry Marshall]

My brain finally engaged. I suddenly realized that I only need stopped rabbets on the mortised door pieces; the tenon pieces would be through rabbets. Might not seem like much but it means I only need to do 4 stopped rabbets, not 8 :-) Still, I now understand why Shakers, who liked to keep things simple, often had an inside detail on their frame and panel doors. Maybe I'll see if the client would like a nice bead on the inside of these door panels (grin).

Cheers --- Larry

[Robert Rozaieski]

You can still do through rabbets on all four pieces by making the two tenon shoulders different lengths. This would have been the traditional way of doing it. It might help to draw it out.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2095/2413528504_318910e7d1.jpg?v=0

[Robert Rozaieski]

Here's a quick & dirty drawing.

131051

[Larry Marshall]

You can still do through rabbets on all four pieces by making the two tenon shoulders different lengths.

Well, isn't that nifty. Too much power-tool think...I think. I never would have thought about doing it that way, Bob. The geometry of the rabbet I need just might allow this as I want the glass closer to the face so I'm thinking of a 1/2" deep rabbet, which would give me 1/4" in front of the mortise which is just about right. This is exciting! Thanks Bob. Once again, "you da man!"

Cheers --- Larry

[Charlie Stanford]

I think the only time I've ever used a double blind rabbet was when making a shallow toolbox drawer with sliding dovetail joinery. I guess if you had to cut through dovetails for a box and hide the bottom panel you could cut a double blind rebate but I would just make a lap dovetail.

As Bob pointed out, you would never need to blind rabbets for frame joints or at least very rarely.