Hand planes collecting dust - is it just me?

[Roger Barga]

A few years ago, after reading a series of glowing articles on the magic of hand planes for smoothing a table top, I started purchasing a collection of smooting planes. It started with a LN #4.5 , then a LN low angle jack plane, somewhere along the line a Lee Valley Bevel Up smoother came into the shop, and a Japanese hand plane followed me home from a woodworking show. Well, I look back on last few years of furniture projects and I have gone through a number of sanders and pads, but haven’t really used these smoothing planes with effect. I have tried but seem to have found a sanded surface to be as good as anything my planning attempts have produced. Overall I have gotten more mileage out of my simple block plane for adjusting a fit and my card scrapers for cleaning up a surface.

So my question is whether I am alone here in not utilizing these smoothing planes or did I fall for a neanders dream? And for those of you who use them, is there something I am missing and what helped you turn the corner in effectively utilizing them – a video, tutorial, article, or trial and error?

Input welcome as I am thinking about pitching these up on Ebay to clear up room for sanding pads…

Roger

[Prashun Patel]

Hand planes aren't for everyone, I guess.

I'd be happy to take some off your hands.....

[glenn bradley]

I use my low angle block plane a lot (with high and low angle irons) and my medium shoulder plane is a life saver. Knowing there are some very enthusiastic folks out there I will say that for me, along with an assortment of saws, chisels and scrapers, this is enough.

[RickT Harding]

I think it's a lot of trial and error. I really enjoyed getting most of the finished parts of my latest project done with hand tools. They were some of my favorite days in the shop. I did sand the plywood carcase, and a little here/there, but I found the hand plane surfaces smoother/nicer than the sanded ones.

I still have some learning/tweaking to do with grain reading and the like, but I've fallen for those planes.

[Dave Lehnert]

Hand planes are a lot safer to use in some cases. Better to clamp the work and use a plane on a small chunk of wood.

My guess you will get a good mix of people that agree with you here in the "power tool" forum than you would in the Neander forum.
Kinda like asking who makes the best car standing in a Honda dealership.

[Mac McQuinn]

I love my hand planes, use my Stanley #5 corrugated and LN low-angle block the most. Recently had to take some material off a basement door bottom and in less time than it take to pull the cover off the table saw and hook up the DC, I had the job done and door hung;).

Mac

[Doug Shepard]

My smoothers have been gathering dust too but only because I've been working on stuff that doesn't require smoothers. Stuff for the shop that's going to end up painted doesn't need to be all that pretty. On the other hand, the shoulder plane, bullnose, skew rabbet, block planes, and LA Jack have been getting quite a bit of use.

[Rick Fisher]

I use a block plane, for really small stuff.. started about a year ago..

It pretty much does all the small stuff, no need for another plane..

[Victor Stearns]

I think that getting the planes out and using them runs in spurts. We go with what we are comfortable with. Until you start to the use the plane more, you will more than likely pickup the sander first. Understanding how to tune the plane, and then using them will lead to using them much more. Remember, when you reach for the sander, think " I can plane this". There is truly nothing like a whisper thin shaving rolling out of the plane.
Good Luck
Victor

[Jim Mattheiss]

Sometimes a hand plane is the right tool for the job. The trick is knowing when to break them out.

I was setting up to glue up a 36" long panel. I put the edges of the peices together an saw 1/8" of daylight along the length.

I don't own a jointer so I broke out my Stanley #5 Jack plane an started working on the high spots. My Dad was with me and saying - how are you going to match. I said we'd keep trying till we got it right.

Within 10 minutes I had an almost perfect fit and was able to glue up the panel.

I had bought the plane on Ebay over a year before and hadn't done anything with it. I came into several little tasks that the #5 was the perfect tool and my appreciation for the plane is growing.

Hopefully you find tasks to get your planes into use.

Cheers

Jim

[Don Dorn]

I'm now pretty much a Neander, but I understand the OPs post. Two things changed my mine with one being the sharpenings aspect - now that I have that down, a tuned plane with a sharp blade suprasses anything I have ever sanded, especially with a good smoother like the OP has. It doesn't get much better (if at all) than a LN 4 1/2 or a Veritas BU Smoother.

The second was a revelation in watching "Dovetail a Drawer" with Frank Klausz. When he broke out the smoother to fine tune the fit, he made about three quick passes and put it down which struck me. I am so used to seeing people using a plane forever that I couldn't imagine any time savings. However Frank made me realize that once you have taken a light shaving off the full width of the board which takes mere seconds, there is no sense in continuing. There just isn't any way to sand that fast or that well - plus no dust!

The reason I understand the OPs post is that I think that sharpening is a hobby for some in itself. They are constantly chasing the "razor sharp" goal and whatever they have isn't good enough and then change methods. I also think that making light wispy shavings by itself is addictive for some. I admit to being fairly close to that myself - when I caught myself taking out the calipers to measure the thickness of a shaving, it finally hit me that I'd lost everything I'd hoped to gain by using planes in the first place - time.

[Larry Frank]

I have also purchased a couple of hand planes in the last year or so including the LN 4.5 and the low angle adjustable mouth block plane. I found that there are much more useful as I became better at the sharpening. I do not use all the time but they are great for trimming the edges of boards, taking off small amounts and for shooting the end of a board square. I do not think that I have the strength to actually use them to level a table top or wide board but for the small trimming they are great.

[mickey cassiba]

We had a saying at the recon shop..."Power tools are NOT for every body" I guess the reverse is the same, though I am starting to develope an interest in hand tools. Used to watch the old timers up in San Francisco use hand made moulding planes like we use skil saws these days.
Am I devolving?

[Cary Falk]

I have better luck with sandpaper than a plane. I own 2. I have a very small that fits in my palm and a rusty one given to me by my neighbor. I was going to restore it to all of it's glory but decided I probably wouldn't use it anyway. It now resides in the drawer. I have tried using them before and could never get them to work right. I would rather remove my eye with a spoon than use a hand plane. I respect those that can you those archaic( just kidding) things. I want my woodworking experience to be enjoyable and hand tools are not for me.

[Gary Herrmann]

Personally, I like a planed surface better than a sanded one for finishing. I also think it's faster to achieve. That said, I also think it varies based on the project. It's up to you what you want to use.

[Cody Colston]

I would rather remove my eye with a spoon than use a hand plane.

Now that's an unequivocal statement! :)

I have three planes, all Stanley's...a block, a #4 and a #5. I use the block plane a lot, the #4 occassionally and the #5 hardly at all. I prefer my ROS to a plane for finishing the surface.

[Mike Heidrick]

I have a couple planes and am trying to learn to use them and when. I still have a lot of power tools that get done what I need to get done.

[Bob Marino]

Roger,

I am in the same place as you - with pretty much the same line-up of planes. I do find I use my LN block and shoulder planes though. I think it takes a fair amount of practice to plane a table-top or some other large area smooth and flat and most are not willing to go that route, as there are quicker and easier ways to do so.
But for those who can do so, I sure do see where there is way more satisfaction in using that smoother than a power tool.

Bob

[Josiah Bartlett]

Using a sharp, well tuned hand plane is a joy. Using a dull hand plane is an exercise in frustration. Its like trying to use a flat blade screwdriver on a phillips screw.

[paul cottingham]

For me planing=no sanding (or very little sanding) this alone makes planing worth the price of admission. That plus planing gives me a very visceral sense of accomplishment at the end of the day. It also takes less time, and leaves a better look, IMHO (very humble.)

[Todd Bin]

Wow Bob, I didn't know Festool made hand planes. :) Just kidding. I get a lot of satisfaction out of using a well tuned tool, either power or hand. I love my LN planes. But, they do have to be sharp and tuned up properly to work properly. It's kinda like if you wanted to sand something and the only sand paper you had was 320 grit. You would think "this takes forever. What do people see in this. This Festool sander sucks." but in reality it is just not "tuned up" by using the right grit of sandpaper first.

Maybe the OP can find someone or a wood working show where the planes are really tuned up and sharp. Get the guy to show you how to "do it". And that would give you confidence to use your planes more. I am certainly no expert, but everytime I use a hand tool I get a little better.

~Todd

[Keith Christopher]

....I would rather remove my eye with a spoon than use a hand plane.....

*WoW* what a statement....I wonder if they are properly setup ? But again different strokes.


I guess it is not for everyone. But for me, the sound of a plane shaving off -just the right thickness- is awesome. to get a perfect fit on a tenon I personally think there is no better tool.

And as for the OP using the block more than any other, agreed it's probably the most used plane anywhere. So versatile and when tuned properly can make 'see thru' shavings. and in one stroke save 10 minutes of sanding.



I find most peoples frustration with planes come from:

1) not being sharp enough
2) not being setup properly
3) not using them correctly or for the wrong job.

[David Keller NC]

So my question is whether I am alone here in not utilizing these smoothing planes or did I fall for a neanders dream? And for those of you who use them, is there something I am missing and what helped you turn the corner in effectively utilizing them – a video, tutorial, article, or trial and error?

Input welcome as I am thinking about pitching these up on Ebay to clear up room for sanding pads…

Roger

Roger - much depends on you. Many folks would rather put in a lot more time with a sander than expend the calories required to flatten, true and smooth a surface with a jointer plane and a smoother. I'm not poo-pooing that approach - there is no doubt that the muscle power required to use a handplane on a large surface is considerably higher than any power tool.

However, many of us (including me) are physically capable of the task, and much, much prefer not having to wear a dust mask nor get micro-fine dust all over our shops, and in my case, all in my house since my shop's in the basement.

So these are the reasons to use handplanes for the purpose that you're describing rather than a ROS or Belt sander, leaving aside aesthetics or satisfaction (which may not apply to everyone):

1) Handplanes are generally far, far faster than sanding or scraping if there are irregularities in the surface. Particularly on table top glue-ups, there is often a small step where the boards are edge-glued, and this can generally be corrected in one pass with a jointer plane. Note that this applies to well-behaved grain. Spectacularly figured wood usually doesn't handplane so well, so those of us without a wide-belt sander or stationary drum sander resort to scraper planes.

2) Handplanes of the proper length automatically flatten large, wide surfaces - they will skip the low spots and plane the high spots. In contrast, it's dang near impossible to flatten a surface with a ROS, and inexpertise or inattention can leave significant divots in the surface. A belt sander with a frame can somewhat allieviate this issue, but they are very aggressive, and it's still possible or even likely to dig out a large depressed area in a table top with this approach.

3) Handplanes are scalable. If you know how to 4-square a board with a foreplane and a jointer, you're really only limited in width by the size of your bench, or in some cases your garage floor. Most of us neither have the room for, nor can afford, the gigantic machine necessary to flatten a table-top glue-up, or a 25" wide mahogany board for a special project. And ripping such a board into widths that will fit into your planer is a crime. Generally speaking, large surfaces on the sides of casework or table tops always look better the wider one can go with the boards necessary to make it.

If you want to use your handplanes, and need some instruction, I'd suggest the local WW club - there will always be a few neanders lurking about that can get you started to using these efficiently. Failing that, buy Rob Cosman's handplane sharpening and "rough to ready" videos. While not as ideal as having someone show you what to do, you can figure out what you need from these two DVDs.

[Cary Falk]

I find most peoples frustration with planes come from:

1) not being sharp enough - Not an issues since I got a good sharpening system.
2) not being setup properly - I wouldn't be surprised.
3) not using them correctly or for the wrong job. - Since I never had anyone show me how to properly use one I would vote all of the above.

[Dave Sharpe]

I was always in pretty much the same boat as most of you who've posted here. I had a block plane and an old Sears (sorry) #4 lying around in a drawer, but rarely attempted to use them as each attempt ended in failure as I tried to force the wood into submission. But last winter I took a two day handplane course at the Port Townsend Shool of Woodworking taught by Jim Tolpin and Tim Lawson. The class began with some demonstrations of different types of planes and proper use of them, then each student was given a well-tuned LV #4 and a plank of wood to practice with. Wow! I'd never seen shavings that thin, much less produced them with my own two hands! It felt like driving a sports car for the first time after riding around in an old rusty VW bus. I was so excited that on the first day's lunch break I ran down to Edensaw and plunked down a sack of money in exchange for a nice new LN low angle jack plane. Over the next few months I started hanging out in antique shops - much to my wife's amusement. I found several old planes and now have a modest collection - some junk, some quite nice - that have all been tuned, sharpened and are usable.

I have found that I probably don't use them as much as I should - I learned woodworking as a power tool guy and I still instinctively turn to power tools first. But I am learning to use more hand tools, and now that I'm mentoring a group of kids in woodworking I find it much more relaxing to teach them to use hand tools than to shout over the noise of my big power machines with the large rapidly spinning blades hungry for little fingers.....

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I have a set of planes I got a long time ago. I rarely use them but when I do, nothing else will do the trick.
So I keep 'em in good shape and handy.

[Sean Hughto]

Handplanes work well. Excellent and fast results are not a Neander dream, as you put it. So, in short, yes, it's you, not the planes or the idea of working with planes. I don't mean that as an insult, but rather merely as a direct answer to your direct question.

We all have preferred and familiar methods of work. It might be hard to spend the effort necessary to master new methods when we already have a tried and true one down. If you are a virtuoso with a belt sander, perhaps you don't see a need to pull out the jack plane. That's a choice, not a reflection on the planes.

I sort of have your experience in reverse. I learned planes and then bought a Powermatic jointer later on. I can't stand the thing, and now it sits in a corner of my shop gathering dust. I can't imagine ever working with it again. I know it would be a sweet tool in some one elses hands, but it's not for me. I get inconsistent results, snipe, tool marks (that have to be planed off), not to mention that it can't face boards of the width I generally work.

Despite these personal feelings, I would never to think to suggest that in buying a jointer, I somehow fell for a power woodworker dream. If you really want to try incorporating planes into your work, you will have to learn to use them, just like I would have to learn to use my jointer.

[Roger Barga]

My thanks to everyone for their candid and helpful replies. I was encouraged to see that many people have good results with smoothing planes, so there is something there (other than an alternative to sanding). It seems worthwhile to seek out a class or some other kind of training because just hacking away at it like I have been simply isn't going to do it. I also realized from a personal exchange that setting up (adjusting) a smoothing plane is more critical than a bench plane that I am familiar with, so I am going to 'thin the herd' a bit and go with one smoothing plane for now.

roger

[Steve Rozmiarek]

In my shop there is a shelf full of sanding tools, a rack of sandpaper, and five new boxes of random orbit pads that have all been just sitting collecting dust. I'm not keen on sanding. It rounds the edges, potentially scratches the surface, makes a dusty mess, and is loud. The planes and scrapers are the go to tools here.

To make a plane work well, learn to sharpen. I suppose they are not for everybody though.

[Maurice Ungaro]

Roger,
I'll give your planes a good home. I'll care for them and keep them rust free.
I'll even make shavings with them. Just send them to me!

[Bob Marino]

My thanks to everyone for their candid and helpful replies. I was encouraged to see that many people have good results with smoothing planes, so there is something there (other than an alternative to sanding). It seems worthwhile to seek out a class or some other kind of training because just hacking away at it like I have been simply isn't going to do it. I also realized from a personal exchange that setting up (adjusting) a smoothing plane is more critical than a bench plane that I am familiar with, so I am going to 'thin the herd' a bit and go with one smoothing plane for now.

roger

Roger,

This post had me doing some reconsidering also and the other day I took out my wooden HNT Gordon smoothing plane, fidldled with the settings and staring playing/attempting to smooth out a scrap 2x4. Well..um, at least it's a starting point for me and an incentive to learn more. I really need to go back to learning more about sharpening - which I always liked to do. There is something exciting (don't know why) about taking a plane blade or chisel from not so sharp to very sharp; I don't obsess about it, but it is nice. Nicer still to apply that blade or chisel to actaully make something. It's also quieter and in some sense a different mindset then using power tools.
I am not going to kid myself and think about flattening table tops, cabinets, dimensioning lumber, etc., but I will be picking up and using my planes and chisels more than before. One note though regarding planing vs sanding. Using my sanders and vac, there reallly is virtually no dust to deal with and shavings to clean up.
Anyhow, I think it's a great idea to take a class. I was at the Woodworking in America show a few weeks ago and regret not attending any of the classes - flattening wood with planes, drawmaking, etc.

Bob

[George Beck]

I think hand planes are an affliction. An illness that sooner or later the government must address. I am a planeaholic. It is sometimes a sad and lonely lifestyle, hours in the basement over sharping stones, forsaking health and sleep in pursuit of a perfect edge. Whenever their is a Lie-Nielsen hand tool event within 500 miles my wife hides the checkbook and credit cards and comes up with some baby shower or something we must attend. Plane mania knows no economic restraint. Sometimes late at night after all are asleep I will sneak out to shop and make shavings or fettle with a plane that was calling my name. I swear they whisper to me late at night. Such is the pathetic life of an addict. I fear there is no cure. It is too late for me. Save yourselves while there is still time!

George

[Prashun Patel]

Sometimes...I will sneak out to shop and make shavings or fettle...

You are not alone. I live your daily battle, Brother!

[Jim Koepke]

*WoW* what a statement....I wonder if they are properly setup ? But again different strokes.


I guess it is not for everyone. But for me, the sound of a plane shaving off -just the right thickness- is awesome. to get a perfect fit on a tenon I personally think there is no better tool.

And as for the OP using the block more than any other, agreed it's probably the most used plane anywhere. So versatile and when tuned properly can make 'see thru' shavings. and in one stroke save 10 minutes of sanding.



I find most peoples frustration with planes come from:

1) not being sharp enough
2) not being setup properly
3) not using them correctly or for the wrong job.

One thing to add to this is 4) Some planes just will not work no matter what is done. They will remove some wood, yes. But do so in a smooth manner, no. There is some real junk out there.


My thanks to everyone for their candid and helpful replies. I was encouraged to see that many people have good results with smoothing planes, so there is something there (other than an alternative to sanding). It seems worthwhile to seek out a class or some other kind of training because just hacking away at it like I have been simply isn't going to do it. I also realized from a personal exchange that setting up (adjusting) a smoothing plane is more critical than a bench plane that I am familiar with, so I am going to 'thin the herd' a bit and go with one smoothing plane for now.

roger

Unless you need the money or space, why thin the herd?
What if you start using the one plane and have your planing epiphany? You will be kicking yourself for having sold off some good tools. You can always sell later if the light never comes on over making shavings.

The 4.5 is a good smoother. The low angle jack would be great for a shooting plane.

Everyone has their own preferences and methods. I seldom use plywood, but when a large thin sheet is needed for a drawer bottom, there isn't much else from which to choose.

A lot of folks will not build from pine, but it is my most used wood.

Different strokes for different folks.

jim

[Paul Ryan]

I just used my jack plane last night. For flattening panels after a glue up you can beat it. I don't have a drum sander. I have been thinking of buying one but when the jack works so well, I really don't think I need on. Maybe spend the $$ on more planes.

[Keith Christopher]

One thing to add to this is 4) Some planes just will not work no matter what is done. They will remove some wood, yes. But do so in a smooth manner, no. There is some real junk out there.
jim

This is also true you get what you pay for.