window sash router bits?

[Virgil Johnson]

I need to make some 9 light window sash.

I am thinking how best to make the muntins.

Are there any good choices for router bits for this or should I be going with a shaper?

Virgil

[Peter Quinn]

The Amana set is pretty good, and allows you to make 1 1/8" through 1 3/4" sash, storm doors, or passage doors should you choose, with integral tennons if you buy the stub coping bit. I have made a number of sashes with this set and it works well. I also have the Freud sash set, and it works fine but is more limited in terms of how it may be stacked, and is meant to make 1 3/8" thick sash frames only, which is fine if that is what you need.

The primary weakness of these bits is the rabbiting cutter for the glass rabbit. It is prone to tearing out stock even though the Amana bit has a pretty steep shear angle. You are removing a fair amount of material, so multiple light passes often yield better results. This may be a problem if the number of sashes you are making is great or the time constraints are short, and a shaper may be a better option, though tear out is still a possibility there. Keep in mind that a sash set for the shaper that makes integral tennons is HUGE, requires a very large machine, and is quite expensive, so most smaller sets require you to incorporate either dowel or loose tennon joinery. Perhaps the Amana shaper set matches the router set in profile, and you could cope with a stub spindle on the router and mold on the shaper which might be a nice compromise? Not sure on that one.

It can be particularly difficult to make the second pass on muntons with narrow bars regardless of which tool you choose. Some sort of coped carriage is essential. At work I was taught to run the shaper stack for sash and glass doors WITHOUT the rabbit cutter, and rip the rabbits out with the TS in two passes. I find this yields considerably more consistent results and goes relatively quickly in practice.

Another option I have used for limited runs of sash profiles for which we did not have a cope and mold set is to run the mold on rails and stiles with a cutter we did have and jack miter the rails and stiles, though this can get rather labor intensive for multi lite windows. Not my first choice in your case.

[Virgil Johnson]

The Amana set is pretty good, and allows you to make 1 1/8" through 1 3/4" sash, storm doors, or passage doors should you choose, with integral tennons if you buy the stub coping bit. I have made a number of sashes with this set and it works well. I also have the Freud sash set, and it works fine but is more limited in terms of how it may be stacked, and is meant to make 1 3/8" thick sash frames only, which is fine if that is what you need.

The primary weakness of these bits is the rabbiting cutter for the glass rabbit. It is prone to tearing out stock even though the Amana bit has a pretty steep shear angle. You are removing a fair amount of material, so multiple light passes often yield better results. This may be a problem if the number of sashes you are making is great or the time constraints are short, and a shaper may be a better option, though tear out is still a possibility there. Keep in mind that a sash set for the shaper that makes integral tennons is HUGE, requires a very large machine, and is quite expensive, so most smaller sets require you to incorporate either dowel or loose tennon joinery. Perhaps the Amana shaper set matches the router set in profile, and you could cope with a stub spindle on the router and mold on the shaper which might be a nice compromise? Not sure on that one.

It can be particularly difficult to make the second pass on muntons with narrow bars regardless of which tool you choose. Some sort of coped carriage is essential. At work I was taught to run the shaper stack for sash and glass doors WITHOUT the rabbit cutter, and rip the rabbits out with the TS in two passes. I find this yields considerably more consistent results and goes relatively quickly in practice.

Another option I have used for limited runs of sash profiles for which we did not have a cope and mold set is to run the mold on rails and stiles with a cutter we did have and jack miter the rails and stiles, though this can get rather labor intensive for multi lite windows. Not my first choice in your case.

I can understand what you are saying and it kind of fits with what I am thinking about.

One thing...what is "jack miter"?

Virgil

[Peter Quinn]

A jack miter is a traditional way to miter both corners of a rail and stile connection on a frame and panel assembly so that the molded edges meet in a miter at the intersection. It is typically used for integral tenon applications where a cope and stick is beyond reach of the tooling available.

A picture tells a thousand words, so a quick internet search may explain it better than I can. FWW has a number of excellent illustrations on there site. The molded edge can be shaped with a very simple router bit rather than a matched set, allowing nearly infinite possibilities. It does require that your miters are quite accurate so they meet tightly. Simple in theory, but challenging to execute precisely. It is also a great way to make beaded face frames.

[Virgil Johnson]

A jack miter is a traditional way to miter both corners of a rail and stile connection on a frame and panel assembly so that the molded edges meet in a miter at the intersection. It is typically used for integral tenon applications where a cope and stick is beyond reach of the tooling available.

A picture tells a thousand words, so a quick internet search may explain it better than I can. FWW has a number of excellent illustrations on there site. The molded edge can be shaped with a very simple router bit rather than a matched set, allowing nearly infinite possibilities. It does require that your miters are quite accurate so they meet tightly. Simple in theory, but challenging to execute precisely. It is also a great way to make beaded face frames.

oh
I know the joint but did not know the name.
Wow somehow 9 lite windows would seem like a challenge.

I checked out the Amana cutters and it seems they will be what I can use.
Otherwise there is the shaper.

Thanks for the help.

Virgil

[Caspar Hauser]

I have a CMT router bit set that works a treat. Full mortice and tenon, coped joints etc, simple to use.

[Virgil Johnson]

I have a CMT router bit set that works a treat. Full mortice and tenon, coped joints etc, simple to use.

I was looking at those as well.

Virgil