Snobs

[John Lohmann]

What's up with all these spelling & punctuation threads? I learned this stuff 35 years ago. I can't remember these rules. It's like geography, Europe, Asia, South America & African countries have changed from what I learned. It's like everything use it or lose it. I send correspondence daily to many people, without the things built into windows I wouldn't know what rules I break. This is still a woodworking forum, keep it that way.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

John,

Lighten up a little.

The spelling thread was started by a gentleman who suffers with dyslexia. He wanted to enlighten some folks about the inconveniences of living with it.

The punctuation thread....a little nonsensical light-hearted fun.

The "Off Topic" forum is the place for this stuff!

[Eric Larsen]

As an egregious snob, I feel I must protest.

I feel insulted! You have besmirched me, sir! I am besmirched! I must say, my monocle almost popped out when I read your post.

I must away and drown my sorrows with a jigger of 150-year old cognac, and perhaps a supermodel or three.

[Al Willits]

John,

Lighten up a little.

The spelling thread was started by a gentleman who suffers with dyslexia. He wanted to enlighten some folks about the incoveniences of living with it.

The punctuation thread....a little nonsensical light-hearted fun.

The "Off Topic" forum is the place for this stuff!


Then maybe people should use the smiley icon a bit more, not so sure all took it as "light hearted fun"....imho

Al

[Bill Arnold]

Snobs? This reminds me of people who watch an entire one-hour TV program, then complain that TV isn't worth watching anymore. How about a novel solution to the issue? If'n ya don't like it, don't go there! :eek:

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

one man's snob is another's barbarian illitterate.

If you squander your energy worrying about who is what you won't have the time to enjoy what you are.

I agree with Ken: Lighten up.

And let me tell you that nothing chaps my britches like people who don't have sufficient mastery of the language that they end their sentences in prepositions.

And then there all those wunderkind who use quotation marks as if they were verbal tweezers because they are too dull to understand, without help, that some words deserve special attention and think everyone else must be as limited as they.

It just goes on and on.

I tell ya it's everybody but me and thee and sometimes I wonder about thee.

[Mitchell Andrus]

use quotation marks as if they were verbal tweezers

I love that term, but I'd prefer verbal spotlight. The need to highlight a term or to see a word that's emphasized helps those who merely skim before rattling off an off-the-mark rebuke. I do my best to avoid skimming myself, but I've been called out for missing the point in a post. Tweezers help to focus attention on the "stuff" in the sentence that could be overlooked and thereby cause the passage containing the un-tweezed term to be misconstrued.

I once had to keep an unwanted tenant for another 3 years when I read "now" for "not", as in: "The tenant will now remain until the end of his term". (Dyslexia again, but my attorney missed it too) That was 20 years ago, I don't miss many words like that anymore.

Could I have written words instead of "stuff"? Yes, but "stuff" covers words, phases, purposeful misspelling, purposefully used incorrect grammar and the spotlight gets the skimmers to pause and focus a bit. We could all do a bit more of that.

As someone pointed out, "the 'net ain't literature". Quotation marks in the prior sentence were used to indicate a quote. :) Smiley face used to indicate a light-hearted comment. Something else we don't see in literature - at least not yet.
:)

[Stephen Tashiro]

If the messages in the "Off Topic" forum were about woodworking, they wouldn't be "Off Topic".

One of the things that I encountered (I won't say "learned") many years ago had to do with indenting each paragraph (5 spaces, was it?). There was a distinction between business correspondence and a "friendly letter". I think the friendly letter was written with the indentation. After a few years of using the editing software on modern computers, a person quickly finds out that it is designed for business! It's as hard as heck to indent paragraphs.

One thing I find interesting about modern web culture is the strong reaction people have to MESSAGES IN CAPITAL LETTERS. The typical response is "Why are you shouting?". I wonder if this is an aversion to the ancient technology of terminals that could only transmit uppercase letters. (Or maybe it is a reaction against microcomputer's DOS, which made no distinction between upper and lowercase.)

Some people speak humorous or provocative remarks while keeping a straight face. To me, using smileys is unnatural. I wasn't active on the internet when it was mostly a text based medium, so I never got in the habit of using them.

[Jim Rimmer]

John,

Lighten up a little.

The spelling thread was started by a gentleman who suffers with dyslexia. He wanted to enlighten some folks about the inconveniences of living with it.

The punctuation thread....a little nonsensical light-hearted fun.

The "Off Topic" forum is the place for this stuff!
+ 1 on the lighten up. If we can't use the Off Topic forum for a little fun now and then life would be way too serious. I didn't take any of the comments as negative and most were funny.

[Jason Beam]

Paging Dr. Godwin.

Please pick up the white courtesy phone.

If the only way others can understand you is through the written word, does it not behoove you to use it with at least some level of proficiency? That's like getting ticked at someone when they call you out for being lazy. If you're being lazy, it's not elitist or snobbish to tell you so.

The burden of clarity lies with the one doing the talking. If you are difficult to understand, who's fault is it?

Lighten up - and maybe take this as a reminder to spend a little more energy in being clear. :)

[Paul Ryan]

Paging Dr. Godwin.

Please pick up the white courtesy phone.

If the only way others can understand you is through the written word, does it not behoove you to use it with at least some level of proficiency? That's like getting ticked at someone when they call you out for being lazy. If you're being lazy, it's not elitist or snobbish to tell you so.

The burden of clarity lies with the one doing the talking. If you are difficult to understand, who's fault is it?

Lighten up - and maybe take this as a reminder to spend a little more energy in being clear. :)

I must object. I don't think some of us need to lighten up. My spelling has never been the greatest and I won't claim to use punctuation correctly. But I do my best, if you don't like my witing skills then don't read my posts. The last english class I had in college, my professor told me I am not too worried about your spelling and punctuation, I am more concerned about your ideas. He went on to say spell checkers are the wave of the future. My spelling has gotten better over the years along with my punctuation. But my feelings are; this is a friendly forum that who gives a rats behind if you spell just right or punctuate properly. As long as others get the jist of what you are trying to convey then that is what matters. Now if you perposly write lazily, for example, those that don't capitailze at the begining of a sentance, and don't add 2 spaces before another sentance. That bugs me because it makes the whole thing difficult to read. But I may just be a hippocrate.

[Paul Atkins]

A Plan for the Improvement of English Spelling
by "Mark Twain".

For example, in Year 1 that useless letter "c" would be dropped to be replased either by "k" or "s," and likewise "x" would no longer be part of the alphabet. The only kase in which "c" would be retained would be the "ch" formation, which will be dealt with later. Year 2 might reform "w" spelling, so that "which" and "one" would take the same konsonant, wile Year 3 might well abolish "y" replasing it with "i" and Iear 4 might fiks the "g / j" anomali wonse and for all.

Jenerally, then, the improvement would kontinue iear bai iear with Iear 5 doing awai with useless double konsonants, and Iears 6-12 or so modifaiing vowlz and the rimeining voist and unvoist konsonants. Bai Iear 15 or sou, it wud fainali bi posibl tu meik ius ov thi ridandant letez "c," "y," and "x" - bai now jast a memori in the maindz ov ould doderez - tu riplais "ch," "sh," and "th" rispektivli.

Fainali, xen, aafte sam 20 iers ov orxogrefkl riform, wi wud hev a lojikl, kohirnt speling in ius xrewawt xe Ingliy-spiking werld.

[Brian Kent]

Snobs are so beneath me.

Sentences are things I would never end sentences with.

[Brian Kent]

Snobs are so beneath me.

Sentences are things I would never end sentences with.

Oh Wait! I Forgot! :)

[Josh Reet]

I must object. I don't think some of us need to lighten up. My spelling has never been the greatest and I won't claim to use punctuation correctly. But I do my best, if you don't like my witing skills then don't read my posts. The last english class I had in college, my professor told me I am not too worried about your spelling and punctuation, I am more concerned about your ideas. He went on to say spell checkers are the wave of the future. My spelling has gotten better over the years along with my punctuation. But my feelings are; this is a friendly forum that who gives a rats behind if you spell just right or punctuate properly. As long as others get the jist of what you are trying to convey then that is what matters. Now if you perposly write lazily, for example, those that don't capitailze at the begining of a sentance, and don't add 2 spaces before another sentance. That bugs me because it makes the whole thing difficult to read. But I may just be a hippocrate.


I gotta say, I second this. In addition, some of the most knowledgeable people I know (particularly in creative fields like woodworking) struggle mightily with proper sentence structure. Do we really want to run people like that off with "for fun" threads that end up making them feel hesitant about posting? We've all got pet peeves (I personally hate reading all-caps), but the fact of the matter is that getting uppity about perfect spelling and grammar on the internet is the 21st century version of thinking someone from the south is stupid because they have a drawl and don't pronounce words like "you all" the way that an English textbook says they should.

Then there is the fact that the internet covers every country in the world these days. Many people typing on English forums are doing so in a language that isn't native to them. They do their best and have useful information to pass along, but you've got to give them a little slack.

I try to listen to what is being said, not exactly how it is said.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Tweezers help to focus attention on the "stuff" in the sentence that could be overlooked and thereby

"Well" you certainly "COULD" just "let" the reader figure it "out" FOR him "OR" her self.
The CAPS used to make that "extra" oomph REALLY bugs me also.

And then there are my all time Favs from the "We bees Illiterates" clan.
Me and her would of did it.
Its theyselves thats got no class.
Yah them ones is thems what gots no class.
What were you thinking of?
Where's it at?




The other day I was listening to some news caster who used the word "devolved" trying to say that the thing he was speaking about had come to some sorry state of affairs. I cringe when idiots in the media play with words bigger then they.

[Jason Beam]

I'll take that over entropy, any day.

Letting the language degrade for no other reason than "You knew what i meant" is a cop out.

It's not up to me to figure out what jibberish someone spews should be interpreted into. Some people seem to forget that it isn't just WHAT they're saying that conveys information. Like it or not, you're judged by your outward appearance. If you don't like the way someone treats you, consider what you're doing to invite such treatment.

I'm not after perfection. I'm after a minimum. Punctuate a little bit - not perfect, just a little. Use the right word for the thought you want to convey. Don't use words you can't define. If you're fully functioning and you went to grade school, you got this education and you have no reason not to strive to use it well.

You're seen the way you display yourself. When speaking, it's your responsibility to be clear. Making someone work to understand you is disrespectful and lazy.

My opinion. It may not be your opinion, but I won't tell you to change your opinion.

[Alan Trout]

To me there is a supercilious air to many of these post and comments. I have seen post nitpicked for what I would consider minor grammatical and spelling errors. These were not cases of having to interpret what was written, the content was very clear. These corrections were made to make the person feel less than adequate or to intimidate so their point of view seemed more valid.

Chastising someone because they cannot figure when to use to, too, or two, or for some obscure punctuation, at best is inappropriate on this type of forum, and at worst can be seen as bullying.

I am not saying there should not be at least a little proficiency in language skills, what I am saying is "Lighten Up" not everyone is as perfect as you.

Good Luck

Alan

[Bruce Page]

To me there is a supercilious air to many of these post and comments. I have seen post nitpicked for what I would consider minor grammatical and spelling errors. These were not cases of having to interpret what was written, the content was very clear. These corrections were made to make the person feel less than adequate or to intimidate so their point of view seemed more valid.

Chastising someone because they cannot figure when to use to, too, or two, or for some obscure punctuation, at best is inappropriate on this type of forum, and at worst can be seen as bullying.

I am not saying there should not be at least a little proficiency in language skills, what I am saying is "Lighten Up" not everyone is as perfect as you.

Good Luck

Alan

Alan, I had to look up supercilious, :rolleyes: I agree with you 100%. It’s easy to say that it is “all in good fun”, but I think there is more to it than that.

[Peter Aeschliman]

My question for those of you who are outspoken about your issues will poor grammar and spelling is:

If you met some of these people in person and they spoke with poor grammar, would you insult them by pointing it out even when you understand what they are saying? Probably not...

So don't do it on the forum. It's elitist and rude. Plus it's cowardly to hide behind your keyboard and monitor like that.

I totally get that most people are joking around, but there do appear to be some who are being judgmental and outright rude.

[Dan Friedrichs]

If you met some of these people in person and they spoke with poor grammar, would you insult them by pointing it out even when you understand what they are saying? Probably not...


I might not point it out, but if the person was a contractor bidding on a job for me, or a businessman quoting me a price for a part, I would certainly judge them based on their poor grammar. Pointing it out isn't rude - it's trying to help others improve themselves.


Someone said, "But my feelings are; this is a friendly forum that who gives a rats behind if you spell just right or punctuate properly."

True, and I don't think anyone who has complained about spelling/punctuation/grammar is seriously offended by a lack of perfection. However, I think it's a sad statement about our society's values when most people aren't able to properly use a semicolon.

[Paul Ryan]

Or is it possible that semi colon was used that way purposly? Ummmmm

[Jason Beam]

If you met some of these people in person and they spoke with poor grammar, would you insult them by pointing it out even when you understand what they are saying? Probably not...

Depends on which people. If I knew they were capable of clearly expressing themselves and were flat out being lazy, I certainly would call them on it. If they're complete strangers and they speak the way some folks do online, they would surely have a steeper hill to climb in order to achieve credibility with me. People are treated the way they ask to be treated. If you place upon me the burden of deciphering what you say, then you will be seen as lazy and discourteous. Your words come out of your mouth, it's not my responsibility to understand them. It's on you to be clear, not me.


So don't do it on the forum. It's elitist and rude. Plus it's cowardly to hide behind your keyboard and monitor like that.

I haven't done this, that I can recall. If I have, please show me so I can better improve myself. A gentle ribbing between friends is one thing. This has evolved into a larger philosophical discussion. I am not an educated man. I have a very poor school record. My ability to form a sentence is deliberate and important. If you want any credibility this world, it's up to you to act the part. I have no sympathy for the willfully ignorant. Nor do I feel anyone should have to break out a decoder ring to figure out what they say.

How can one defend the "hiding behind your keyboard" accusation, anyway? That one irks the heck out of me. I would say all of this to your face. I'm expressing my philosophy. It's more cowardly, in my opinion, to resort to insults rather than have a logical discussion without getting your nose bent out of shape. Please tell me what makes you think we're hiding behind our keyboards - what do you base this claim on?

[Glenn Clabo]

Wow...enough...