Pommel cut - how do you do it??

[John Keeton]

I am having a very difficult time getting a clean pommel cut without tearing out the corners of the square stock.:(

I searched for and found several posts listing two or three methods of doing this cut, but the comments were pretty much limited to -
Make a saw cut first, or
Use a skew, long point first, to create the cut.

I tried the skew initially, and that was what caused the tearout. As a stopgap measure so that I can move forward with completing the legs I am ATTEMPTING to turn, I have done the saw cut method. It is not the best, and I am still left with clean up to do - but tearout is minimal. There has to be a better way???:confused:

So, how do you guys do it, and with which tool??

I posted this in a prior thread, but this is the leg design (since tapered a bit more) and there are three pommel cuts on each leg!!:eek:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=130306&thumb=1&d=1255740153 (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=130306&d=1255740153)

[Ken Fitzgerald]

John,

Do you remember the spindles I turned for the ship's wheel?

Several pommel cuts on each one.

Pommel cut is tough.

I use a skew.

Are you trying to make a straight pommel or a radiused pommel?

[John Keeton]

Pommel cut is tough.THAT would be an understatement!!

Ken, I do recall the spindles on the ship's wheel. These pommels are straight, and that seems to be much more difficult.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

John,

Both pommels have their own difficulties. The radiused pommel becomes difficult when you try to get the radius to match from pommel to pommel and spindle to spindle.

One thing you could try on a piece of scrap. Let's say you want to make the pommel cut leaving the wood to the right square. Sight down your skew on the right bevel as you present it and make sure it's absolutely perpendicular to the spindle. If you previously cleared the wood to the left using say a parting tool, you could continue that cut down to the desired radius.

You have to apply the skew with confidence and commitment.

Am I making sense?

You might try using something to harden the wood a little bit.

Good luck John. You will get it.

I told you when you began this journey , IMHO spindle turning is the most difficult form of turning.

[Moshe Eshel]

Definitely a skew (sharp!) nothing else can do it just the same (perhaps a bedan, but that almost the same)...
Start with a V cut a bit into the area that will be turned down, remember to get a clean cut you got to cut without the bevel touching here (I hope I'm not making a fool out of myself) - since you need to be descending direct from air into the cut (the wood is square). From that position - once the initial deep cut is made, it should be easier to proceed to complete the pommel (though still need to pay attention to your skew - try playing with the angle of the cut if it doesn't seem to work).

It's not easy but it can be done... GOOD LUCK!

[Paul Atkins]

Pommels are my favorite cut. Really! I use a flat fingernail tool, a bowl gouge and curved skew or whatever I have at hand. Well, almost. 90% of the jobs don't need sanding. It is one of my cleanest cut. Now to post a video. I tried Youtube and it doesn't seem to be very clear to me. Anyone use Vimeo? I could post 2 or 3 clips a week if I had good resolution. Another work-avoidance project for today.

[curtis rosche]

one tip we use in school, wrap the area to be cut in a good bit of tape, it helps it to not splinter

[Robert Parrish]

Alan Lacer shows how to do it with a skew in one of his videos but I can't remember which one. He makes door stoppers with pommels.

[Walter Mooney]

John
Check out this thread from a while back.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=3542
Also, check out Mr. Bob Hamilton's you-tube video on turning a mallet. He executes this cut very nicely, in the third or fourth installment of the video.

Walter

[Steve Schlumpf]

John - sometimes a simple video really clears things up. Check this out: http://www.turningtools.co.uk/videos/videos.html#pummel

[Bob Vavricka]

John,
I attend the SWAT symposium and went to several of Stuart Batty's sessions. In both he demonstrated cutting pommel cuts with a bowl gouge. He said not to let your left hand touch the tool rest because you would pull the tool back into the shoulder. He used his left hand on the tool, but back from the tool rest. He demonstrated that the tool would not "skate" in an interupted cut (cut where you are "cutting air" part of the time. Needless to say he made it looked simple and the pieces he cut and passed around wouldn't have needed any sanding.

[David Walser]

John,

Describing how to make a pommel cut may be harder than actually making the cut itself. Ken gave you some good advice. Allow me to try and expand on his comments:


A pommel cut is basically a "v" cut with one side perpendicular.
To make a pommel cut, start on the "waste side of your line" so that your initial cut does NOT touch the line. Depending on your skill and how deep the pommel cut will be, you might want to start the cut 1/4" or more away from the line.
To make a v cut you start with the handle low and slowly arc the skew's long point into the wood. That is, you don't simply push the point into the wood. Pushing the point into the wood will almost always result in tear out -- I suspect that's what you've been doing.
The most first ark of the skew will only go in about 1/3 (or so) the length of the skew's bevel. For the skew to go more deeply, you'll need to widen the v by making another arcing cut from the waste side. Usually, this arcing cut is made at an angle -- following the bevel angle of the first cut. Continue making arcing cuts until you've gotten to the depth of your pommel cut in the waste area. (You could use your parting tool to waste away this area, but using the skew is good practice for the next step.)
Now sneak up on the line by making "facing" cuts at a 90 degree angle. This is just like the v cuts you've been making, only now you're trying to achieve a right angle instead of a slope. Cant your skew so the bevel angle matches the line (90 degrees to the bed of the lathe). Tip the top edge of the skew (the heel or short point) until it's just about 2 minutes to the right or left of 12:00 (depending on which direction you're cutting). You want the skew to cut with the long point and to have the short point JUST away from the cut so the top part of the edge cannot catch. Take very light cuts, keeping with the arcing motion of raising the handle while, at the same time, slowly advancing the skew forward into the cut. By arcing and pushing forward, the skew should be able to cut the pommel from edge to the full depth in ONE pass. Slowly take of 1/32" of so with each pass until you meet your line.

Good luck and hope this helps!

[Paul Atkins]

Ok, I found an old video clip and added some comments and uploaded it. These are blocks I make for a cabinet shop here. If this video and link work
I'll do some more.
http://vimeo.com/7169052

[Steve Schlumpf]

Paul - video worked great! Excellent example!

[Brian Effinger]

Great video, Paul. I wouldn't have thought of using a scraper like that. Did you hone both faces of the scraper?

[John Keeton]

Sorry to have been a while getting back to this thread. I was able to get away from the office and hauled and spread 3 yards of mulch:( Not my favorite way to get exercise!

Really appreciate all the replies!! I do have the Lacer DVD, and I have watched it several times. I have my skew radiused and honed, but apparently I am not doing something right with that method.

I tried the V cut method, but still get some tearout. I suspect that David has nailed the problem in being my approach to the wood. Because of the design for these legs, there is a limit as to how deep I can go on a cut that is not in the exact location for the finished pommel cut. I just don't have much room to work with a V cut. David, I appreciate your comments and will practice that technique more within the confines of my design.

Steve, you had actually given me the link to those UK videos in an earlier thread, and I have them saved on my hard drive. The pommel in that thread is a radiused pommel, as is the one in the video Paul did - which is a fantastic video BTW!! Thanks, Paul!! I really like the way you handled the gouge, and I WILL OWN one of those beading tools!! Also, need to get a couple of scrapers and reshape them for specific tasks. Sounds like your method is like the one that Bob saw at the SWAT event.

Paul, how would you do a 90* pommel? Particularly, if you needed to do a bead shape coming out of the pommel as in the top portion of my leg design.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

John,

Here's a link to a site. You can play the video for cutting a pommel. While it's a radiused pommel but it gives you the overall technique used even on a straight pommel.

http://www.turningtools.co.uk/videos/videos.html#pummel

[alex carey]

that video certainly helps. Thanks for that.

[Steve Mawson]

Alan Lacer-The Skew Chisel-the dark side and the sweet side. Does a good job on making pommel's. Like the DVD very much but still having some trouble making my skew work like his.

[Dick Sowa]

For softer hardwoods, I have used Curtis' method...wrap the cut area with several layers of masking tape. That does a great job of keeping the corners crisp.

[Ryan Baker]

The skew chisel is really the only way to get a clean cut (for those of us who are not Stuart Batty). Don't practice on your real piece though. Get lots of spare spindles to practice on -- it's not an easy cut to learn.