Windows 7. Has anyone else started to plan for the upgrade?

[James Jaragosky]

I had the opportunity to purchase the windows 7 upgrade at the student price of $30. I will receive it by download on the 22nd. with the hard disc to follow in the mail at a later date.
I just finish copying all my files to a removable hard drive.
I have cleaned up my vista machine in preparation for the upgrade.
Has anyone else started to plan for the upgrade?

[David G Baker]

Nope, don't plan on it until I know most of the bugs are gone.

[paul cottingham]

Linux guy. Largely cause of all this paying for continual upgrade nonsense. Oh yeah, it works better, too.

:)

[Mark Placek]

I've been using beta versions for the past 7 months, I received the full professional version 10 days ago.
It was a very easy installation, this was the first time that I didn't have to search for drivers that the previous versions of Windows missed.

I had Vista installed on both my laptop and desktop, I almost immediately went back to XP.

I think you'll be very happy with Windows 7.

[James Jaragosky]

I've been using beta versions for the past 7 months, I received the full professional version 10 days ago.
It was a very easy installation, this was the first time that I didn't have to search for drivers that the previous versions of Windows missed.

I had Vista installed on both my laptop and desktop, I almost immediately went back to XP.

I think you'll be very happy with Windows 7.
I hope so
We have 8 computers in the house, 2 are desktops that have vista installed on them. Although vista has gotten better (more stable) the xp machines run circles around my vista machines. The vista machines we have were top of the line Hp machines when we purchased them last fall. I have one 5 year old E-machine that is faster than my Hp93501f running vista. I have a old Tablet that I may convert to linux because I keep getting a pop up telling that the OS may be pirated, I know that it is not; I purchased the software directly from MS. but I really do not want spend anymore time fixing their screwed up software glitches.

[Eric Larsen]

I'm in the minority. I'm quite happy with Vista. Then again, I didn't buy it until it had been out for six months, and I knew all my various components had decent drivers.

Seeing as my Vista x64 system is working flawlessly -- as a Media Center system -- I see no reason to upgrade. When the bugs are ironed out, and someone writes add-ons that make Windows 7 Media Center better, I'll upgrade.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Yeah....but my upgrade will be to the largest Imac I can get my hands on. As of this year, I am done with Windows & PCs. Going to be a major change, but I am finally ready.

[Paul Atkins]

I plan never to use Windows again - Oh, I already did that 2 years ago. It just cracks me up that they call it an "operating" system.

[Chuck Wintle]

I had the opportunity to purchase the windows 7 upgrade at the student price of $30. I will receive it by download on the 22nd. with the hard disc to follow in the mail at a later date.
I just finish copying all my files to a removable hard drive.
I have cleaned up my vista machine in preparation for the upgrade.
Has anyone else started to plan for the upgrade?

James,

You are very computer literate from the sound of it. Have you ever considered running any version of linux? :)

[Bill Leonard]

Upgrade! I don't need no stinkin upgrade. I am still using Windows 98.

[Derek Gilmer]

I've been using windows 7 as the primary os on this computer since RC1 came out. I have been very happy with it. Reltatively stable, good support for hardware and some of the taskbar/menu pinning options are very cool. For comparison I've got windows xp on my work laptop and ubuntu (linux) on another machine. I'd got unbuntu on all of them by work requires some software that is windows only and codeweavers/wine can't run it :(.

[Dave Johnson29]

Has anyone else started to plan for the upgrade?

James, I have to ask, "WHY?"

You are in for a round of hurt.

Google this...

windows 7 source:computerworld

If it ain't broke...

[Dennis McGarry]

Part of the launch of windows 7, have had my copies of ultimate 64bit and 32 bit for two weeks now, Full retail.

Installed on four different machines, not a single hickup on anyoff them!

Two were laptops and two desktops, both 32 and 64 bit.

It was smooth as silk, and no driver issues, and no issues with programs running at all.

There will always be a few situations that have problems but that is the nature of the system. Over all this time they did it right.

[James Jaragosky]

James,

You are very computer literate from the sound of it. Have you ever considered running any version of linux? :)

I started with my first DOS machine in 1983, it was a 286. I was very happy with it until I saw my first Macintosh and abandon the PC line with glee.
I was a very loyal mac user for many years going through 3 of 4 models until just before the release of o.s. 8. Apple just did not have the verity of software that the PC offered. Also I was no longer a idealistic youth, I was becoming a pragmatic adult and I was tired of swimming up stream. So I switch back to The PC just in time for windows ME. It was not a MAC but it could run all kinds of new software.
In my opinion the PC has alwasy been playing catch up to the Mac OS.
And my next machine may be another mac now that more softwaer can be run on them.
As far as a running linux I will give that a try when this school sumester is over. I will try it on my Tablet.
Thanks for asking
Jim J

[Greg Peterson]

I'll be loading 7 after it lands in my mailbox. My nephew has been testing/using 7 for the past year as part of his computer science studies at his university. Thumbs up from him.

When it comes to computers and operating systems, none of them are without drawbacks and glitches. The upgrade to OS Snow Leopard went relatively smooth with the exception of Apple Works configuration files getting corrupted in the process.

Pick your poison.

I've had recording sessions delayed and ultimately canceled because the Mac had corrupt drivers (this was a dedicated, high end Mac unit). A friend of mine who is a recording engineer used Apple for years and years and finally went to PC this past year. He regrets not making the change long ago. The cost for hardware and software for the Mac version of the required hardware and software is easily four to five times the cost of the PC equivalent. The performance is the same, and ultimately the results are identical.

Your mileage may vary.

[Steve knight]

the speed of windows seven comes pretty close to my mac. it blows away xp on the same machine. it's been rock stable. I id not try the newest version of vista so I can't comment but it has been very nice instead of xp.
I have debated on getting a mac for work but running the cad software and my cnc software on it would be too clunky. so I use 7 there.

[Brad Wood]

I've had it available through my MSDN subscription for some time now, I've just not taken the time to do the install.

I do however have every intention of doing the install at some point when I have the time (or, rather, I want to spend the time). I've got the install sitting here at my desk on a USB key right now (yes, you can install from USB).

I've been running Vista at home for a few years now and overall it has been a positive experience. I've done video editing with Adobe Premiere... with multiple 12gb files open at the same time, and it has performed very well.

One of the guys in my office has been running it for a few months and he is satisfied. We are actually installing it here at work on a system used by the gal that does all our print work. She will be getting the full Adobe compliment of applications along with the 7 install (she has always had the adobe, but we are looking forward to better stability).
In testing, all our Active Directory policies have applied properly to the new machine, so that is a good start.

[Larry Frank]

I am glad to here that some have had good luck with Windows 7. I am still running XP and have been happy with it. There were too many complaints about Vista that I did not want to try it. I think that I will convert my two desktops and laptop to Windows 7 after it has been out a little while. Microsoft certainly did not stay with Vista very long.

[Gary Redden]

I have been running the release version of if sense the first part of August. Really alot better than Vista was and all my management tools run on Win7 where they would not on Vista. A very worthwhile upgrade.

Gary

[Richard Link]

Been using Windows 7 on four machines over the past few months. Upgrade is a no brainer at those prices. Much more reliable and faster than the vista option I was running previously. You probably don't need to wait for the bugs to get out...you field tested all the bugs with vista.

[Rick Moyer]

Been using Windows 7 on four machines over the past few months. Upgrade is a no brainer at those prices. Much more reliable and faster than the vista option I was running previously. You probably don't need to wait for the bugs to get out...you field tested all the bugs with vista.

That's good to hear, as we are about to upgrade our whole system (It's been a while). I decided to just wait until 7 was readily available, but had some concern, being that it was new. Our old system is just to slow anymore for our needs (processor, ram, etc..) will be looking into available desktops in the next few weeks.

[Robert Parrish]

Yeah....but my upgrade will be to the largest Imac I can get my hands on. As of this year, I am done with Windows & PCs. Going to be a major change, but I am finally ready.

Kelly, get the new 27" IMac you will never go back. I develop for both platforms and much prefer the Mac. I was one of those I hate Mac guys for years until I got tired of all the viruses, malware and crashes and tried one out! I have my IMac on a network with several PCs and share data seamlessly. I'm ordering a new 17" Mac Book soon.

[Jim Tobias]

Put Windows 7 on my laptop yesterday to replace Vista. So far, so good!

Jim

[Eric Larsen]

I'm currently putting my fingers in my ears and yelling "La-La-La-La."

I'm still waiting for the shoe to drop with Windows 7. I have next to no trust in Microsoft and only use their products because the software I want to run requires Windows.

Surely there will be a major security flaw, instant irreversible BSOD or some other malady that will need to be fixed via a Service Pack.


EDIT -- Putting Windows onto a fast computer is like owning a Ferrari, and then putting a deranged alcoholic suffering from DTs behind the wheel.

[Chuck Wintle]

I don't plan on going to windows 7 even if it is faster and, supposedly, better. I have heard these claims so often from MS that they need to taken with a grain of salt. Likely there will be some majoj security flaw requiring a service pack to repair. To upgrade just for the sake of upgrading....not for me.

[Greg Peterson]

I haven't been paying attention to any MS claims about 7's performance. I've heard much more from people that have been running RC's. The rollout for 7 has been pretty conservative compared to previous OS rollouts.

Two years ago, Apple's Safari browser was a joke. Out of the box I couldn't get the IMac to connect to the Apple site. Most other sites were not a problem, but some were. Firefox took care of that little problem. Haven't tried Safari since. Apple has their share of quirks too.

AppTel or WinTel, pick your poison.

BTW, Google Chrome rocks.

[Dave Lehnert]

I'm in the minority. I'm quite happy with Vista. Then again, I didn't buy it until it had been out for six months, and I knew all my various components had decent drivers.

Seeing as my Vista x64 system is working flawlessly -- as a Media Center system -- I see no reason to upgrade. When the bugs are ironed out, and someone writes add-ons that make Windows 7 Media Center better, I'll upgrade.

I am not a computer power user but have been happy with Vista. Not sure what all the fuss is about.
I do not plan to upgrade. The new Windows is always the greatest thing since sliced bread. But bugs start to show up. One thing gets fixed but you just have another problem.
The real reason for not doing the upgrade. I'm too cheap. :D

[Anthony Scira]

Its funny to hear all the Windows sucks crowd. I think Microsoft releasing such a widespread beta version into the public helped them get a grasp on whats good and bad and fine tune it. This was not a rushed OS. Will it have problems ? ? Of course but such a big release always will.

Yeah we all know Apple is the best and never has any problems. Yeah we know your the hipsters ans Steve Jobs is a rockstar that can do no wrong.

I think Microsoft does a good job supporting the millions of different hardware configurations that we may throw at it. Unlike Apple where you have to buy their hardware and they have control of what you can and can't do.

I really like Vista SP2. I like it in the fact it has done everything I need it to do. And it does it well without crashing. :eek:

Anyway James I am planning fresh installs on my 2 machines. I just never liked the whole upgrade path that installs over the old OS. Clean install for me !

[paul cottingham]

I agree with you about macs. Now Linux....there's a different story. Runs on practically hardware, (even older stuff) and stable as a rock. AND ... free.

Can't beat that.

Paul

[Anthony Scira]

I agree with you about macs. Now Linux....there's a different story. Runs on practically hardware, (even older stuff) and stable as a rock. AND ... free.

Can't beat that.

Paul

Linux is cool, I even put it on my Mom's computer. She just uses the internet and her computer is a little on the old side.

As far as run on all hardware that is true. But it does not even come close for the driver support. And that is what most people need. Windows is so bloated since it has to do so much to cover all the different things we throw at it.

[paul cottingham]

Its funny. I have less trouble with driver support now than I ever did with windows.

Back when I was teaching networking and all (in a Microsoft school), I used to have students ask me why Windows was so dominant, and I could never answer them. I'm more puzzled by that now than ever.

[Greg Peterson]

So long as a user can stay within the confines of the universe as defined by Apple, Macs offer an acceptable solution. MS has a vastly wider user base to address, thus their challenges are exponentially numerous.

I've not had any problems of note with Vista SP2. I do not like the interface as it seems they just changed things for the sake of change. Since I've not heard, seen or read anything of merit to dissuade me, I will install my 'free' 7 upgrade at some time in the near future.

[Greg Peterson]

Back when I was teaching networking and all (in a Microsoft school), I used to have students ask me why Windows was so dominant, and I could never answer them. I'm more puzzled by that now than ever.

MS had Excel and then penetrated Novell's market. Novell was a better network OS, but MS had the graphical interface. I'm sure there are other factors that influenced MS' size in the early years. But having Windows 3.11 on hundreds of thousands, if not millions of PC's, introduced the concept of networking to a much larger market than Novell.

[paul cottingham]

I understand the mechanics of it, but not the logic....:-)

[Greg Peterson]

I agree, it doesn't make sense. But MS offered a nice, shiny product and the masses assumed since it looked cool it was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

People are easily sold something that is against their best interests because Oh look, something shiny............................................. ....:D

[paul cottingham]

You know I knew a company that had a Novell 3.12 server that had been running for 7 years and had never been rebooted. We had a web server running FreeBSD that was up for 5 years, no reboots, never hacked.

and yet Microsoft dominates,,,,

[Greg Peterson]

I think MS got in through the back door. They got an army of developers to code programs for Windows.

[Scott Shepherd]

For those "Apple Bashers" that think people that use Mac's do it because they are status symbols, here's a comparison chart between the 2 companies over 10 years. Which one would you rather have invested in?

With performance like that over a 10 year period, it's clearly more to it than "people think they are status symbols" or "real companies don't use Mac's", etc.

Apparently somebody, somewhere, in much bigger numbers than some of you think are using them. If not, then the chart wouldn't look like this. Apple's stock in the last 5 years, on fire, Microsoft's, not so much.

See attached chart.

p.s. I don't own a Mac, so you can't group me in with them!

[Anthony Scira]

"You know I knew a company that had a Novell 3.12 server that had been running for 7 years and had never been rebooted. We had a web server running FreeBSD that was up for 5 years, no reboots, never hacked.

and yet Microsoft dominates,,,, "

Yeah ummmmmmm thats a fair comparison. There is a HUGE diffrence between a dedicated server and a home PC. You do not have people surfing the net on it, installing flash games and all kinds of other stuff. Lets see how well your Novell server and FreeBSD connects to my camcorder and edits my AVCHD video and then formats it to upload to a website.

:rolleyes:

[Eric Larsen]

Apparently somebody, somewhere, in much bigger numbers than some of you think are using them. If not, then the chart wouldn't look like this. Apple's stock in the last 5 years, on fire, Microsoft's, not so much.

I bet it has more to do with the fact that just about everyone in the First World owns an iPod. (And now iPhones, too. Everyone around here at least seems to be using them.)

[Anthony Scira]

For those "Apple Bashers" that think people that use Mac's do it because they are status symbols, here's a comparison chart between the 2 companies over 10 years. Which one would you rather have invested in?

With performance like that over a 10 year period, it's clearly more to it than "people think they are status symbols" or "real companies don't use Mac's", etc.

Apparently somebody, somewhere, in much bigger numbers than some of you think are using them. If not, then the chart wouldn't look like this. Apple's stock in the last 5 years, on fire, Microsoft's, not so much.

See attached chart.

p.s. I don't own a Mac, so you can't group me in with them!

Well MS definately had a big marketing problem against Apple. But I think the lion share of those profits are for iPhones and iPods. They hit a home run in that respect.

If you look at how many PC's there are running a Microsoft product they still CRUSH apple.

[paul cottingham]

"You know I knew a company that had a Novell 3.12 server that had been running for 7 years and had never been rebooted. We had a web server running FreeBSD that was up for 5 years, no reboots, never hacked.

and yet Microsoft dominates,,,, "

Yeah ummmmmmm thats a fair comparison. There is a HUGE diffrence between a dedicated server and a home PC. You do not have people surfing the net on it, installing flash games and all kinds of other stuff. Lets see how well your Novell server and FreeBSD connects to my camcorder and edits my AVCHD video and then formats it to upload to a website.

:rolleyes:

It would do just fine. I know from experience, cause I do it every day on my home machine.

[Anthony Scira]

It would do just fine. I know from experience, cause I do it every day on my home machine.

Linux is fine for more tech oriented people. And I have even installed a copy of Ubuntu for my parents that surf the internet on an older machine.

Yeah to get drivers to make their printer work was a PITA. It works but still lost the functionality of the scanner.

I'll pop an old 250GB drive in and test drive FreeBSD and see how well it edits the AVCHD video. Any reccomendations on programs or will there be an editor already installed ?

[Greg Peterson]

I read an article today that MS for the first time ever, sat down with computer makers (Dell, Acer, Sony, Toshiba, HP...) and asked for their input.

A lot of the security issues with Windows is the result of users using the administrator account for their main logon. Then they start loading every which widget, program, add on and plug in from who knows where.

MS is finally getting the message that we want a light, fast, stable OS. They have asked the computer makers to stop pre-loading their machines with all the crap trial programs one typically finds on a new machine. I know, MS is guilty of this too as my machine came with trial versions of Office and Quicken.

Take the IPod and IPhone out of the Apple line up and they've not much to hang their hat on.

And are we so far removed from the stock bubble that we have forgotten how inaccurate share prices are as a measure of a companies dominance in their market?

Apple stock may or may not be higher than MS stock at this moment, too lazy to check. But which company has a bigger foot print/install base.

[paul cottingham]

I'm sorry, I meant Ubuntu. I am no masochist, and would never run xserver on freebsd.

[Scott Shepherd]

Take the IPod and IPhone out of the Apple line up and they've not much to hang their hat on.

And are we so far removed from the stock bubble that we have forgotten how inaccurate share prices are as a measure of a companies dominance in their market?

Apple stock may or may not be higher than MS stock at this moment, too lazy to check. But which company has a bigger foot print/install base.

Another factless statement about the core of their business. Read their earnings reports. The iphone came out about a year ago, they have been on fire for about 5 years. So that argument can get squashed.

They are selling 12,000,000 computers a year. I'm not sure what industry you are in, but selling 12,000,000 of just about anything is hardly a feat to dismiss as a "fad".

[Curt Harms]

Linux is fine for more tech oriented people. And I have even installed a copy of Ubuntu for my parents that surf the internet on an older machine.

Yeah to get drivers to make their printer work was a PITA. It works but still lost the functionality of the scanner.

I'll pop an old 250GB drive in and test drive FreeBSD and see how well it edits the AVCHD video. Any reccomendations on programs or will there be an editor already installed ?

Take a look at the support sections of web sites of hardware vendors when you purchase printers etc. Some offer good Linux/FreeBSD support, others don't. i have 2 brother MFD's and was able to get print and scan functions working pretty easily. I don't see any information configuring the card readers on the one. Another resource is :http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/openprinting. You can enter a printer model and see if it works with open source operating systems. Gotta love the name of the printer driver database...Foomatic:D:D.

[Anthony Scira]

Another factless statement about the core of their business. Read their earnings reports. The iphone came out about a year ago, they have been on fire for about 5 years. So that argument can get squashed.

They are selling 12,000,000 computers a year. I'm not sure what industry you are in, but selling 12,000,000 of just about anything is hardly a feat to dismiss as a "fad".

Yeah and HP alone sold 14,000,000 laptops. Acer adds another 11,000,000 laptops. This is not including all the other manufacturers and their previous mentioned desktop lines.

And the iphone was released 2007, and iPods way back in 2001. So yeah the 5 years times about right for the iPod and iPhone sales to make the stock zoom.

[Scott Shepherd]

2007 isn't 5 fiscal years ago.

HP sold a lot of computers, great. So did Acer. Great, so did Apple.

I just don't understand the complete dismissal of a company that large. The don't make toys, they make products that people love. They smoked. Yes, SMOKED everyone else in customer satisfaction surveys. They had over 80% customer satisfaction. Not a single other business in that group had that level of customer satisfaction, yet the "Apple Bashers" refuse to give them the credit they have earned.

I don't care what you buy. PC, Mac, doesn't matter to me. I don't own stock in either one and I don't own a Mac, but some people just can't give them credit when credit is due. Call it what you want, but I'd rather have Apple stock in my portfolio than MS and I don't think you'll find anyone that would argue against that point.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Another factless statement about the core of their business. Read their earnings reports. The iphone came out about a year ago, they have been on fire for about 5 years. So that argument can get squashed.

They are selling 12,000,000 computers a year. I'm not sure what industry you are in, but selling 12,000,000 of just about anything is hardly a feat to dismiss as a "fad".

True....Apple has been doing very well since the imac came out....can't wait to have one personally. Except for XP I am MS free right now.

While XP is the most stable MS product I have ever seen [and I've used them all since Win 3.1 came out], I grow sick to death of all the viruses that get written and all the scanners we have to have to prevent them from melting our hard drive. With Apple's OS this is not an issue.

Since I am going to be converting over to digital drafting versus the pencil soon, the Apple computer makes more sense. The graphics capabilities are vastly superior to windows.

[Anthony Scira]

2007 isn't 5 fiscal years ago.

HP sold a lot of computers, great. So did Acer. Great, so did Apple.

I just don't understand the complete dismissal of a company that large. The don't make toys, they make products that people love. They smoked. Yes, SMOKED everyone else in customer satisfaction surveys. They had over 80% customer satisfaction. Not a single other business in that group had that level of customer satisfaction, yet the "Apple Bashers" refuse to give them the credit they have earned.

I don't care what you buy. PC, Mac, doesn't matter to me. I don't own stock in either one and I don't own a Mac, but some people just can't give them credit when credit is due. Call it what you want, but I'd rather have Apple stock in my portfolio than MS and I don't think you'll find anyone that would argue against that point.
But 2001 iPod release has been 8 1/2 years. The iPod is what gave Apple the boost they needed and then the phone was a boom.

I don't dismiss them they just don't appeal to me. They don't run the software I like to run. They make a heck of a phone though. I even own one and my wife will too. Although ATT is starting to tick me off but we will save that for another thread.

Support is another issue. One of the things pc makers have been stripping out is support and will charge for it. There I have no experience, except for laptops my systems are homebrews.

I am not bashing Apple. Just saying 11 million computers sold is not that big in the grand picture of computer sales.

Did they market the Vista fiasco, hell yes. And it definately hurt sales for the PC.

But now Apple will not have Vista to push around anymore. I can already tell you Apple will loose ground unless they come up with an inexpensive computer for the average joe.

This is the kind of thing that will keep people from making the jump. Especially in this economy. They even have a celeron for like 199 that would be fine for 80% of computer users. But this onle looked like a pretty good rig for the money.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5311064&Sku=A180-4518

[Greg Peterson]

If Acer, Dell or HP sold 12 million computers in a year they would be in serious trouble. Compaq would probably be happy with 12 million laptops.

No one disputes the fact that Apple is a big company. But in relative terms, they are small.

As Jobs goes, so goes Apple. If anything negative happens to Jobs watch the Apple stock plummet. Apple's history is very interesting. To call it volatile would be an understatement. Based on the history of Apple and Jobs (especially with Jobs health these days), I would not look to Apple as a safe harbor for long term investments.

[Scott Shepherd]

If anything negative happens to Jobs watch the Apple stock plummet. Apple's history is very interesting. To call it volatile would be an understatement. Based on the history of Apple and Jobs (especially with Jobs health these days), I would not look to Apple as a safe harbor for long term investments.

At least they've had a run up for it to fall from. Long term investment? Who knows? Is anything a long term investment any more?

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Actually all new Macs can run XP, so the software excuse [yep, sthe same one I used to make] is null and void!

[Greg Peterson]

Actually all new Macs can run XP, so the software excuse [yep, sthe same one I used to make] is null and void!

That's because Apple is running with the Intel crowd now. WinTel machines have been able to dual boot OS's for years.

Scott - Apple could have owned the computer world several times over and MS would have been a bit player. The culture at Apple before Jobs came back was prone to self destructing. Whether or not they've learned their lessons remains to be seen. But without Jobs vision and presence in the company, Apple ceases to be Apple.

Since both platforms are essentially running the same hardware, the real difference between Apple and MS in the PC arena is the OS.

[Scott Shepherd]

But without Jobs vision and presence in the company, Apple ceases to be Apple.



Same could have been said of Bill Gates for the last 20 years.

Both are visionary people and almost impossible to directly replace.

[Greg Peterson]

Gates stepped down from MS two or three years ago. Balmer is running the show now and 7 is pretty much his baby. MS seems to be doing fine without Gates.

Apple's best years have been when Jobs was directly involved with the company.

[Anthony Scira]

Actually all new Macs can run XP, so the software excuse [yep, sthe same one I used to make] is null and void!

Why would I want to buy a more expensive machine to emulate what I have for less ?

Not to mention Windows 7 which is what this thread is really about. Just did 3 installs and all I can say is Microsoft hit a home run. Not one driver issue even on the notebook. That did not happen with Vista. One notebook I did a clean install and the other I did an upgrade from Vista just to see how it went and it was uneventful. The third I did on my desktop I did a clean install with a dual boot. (Vista, XP, Ubuntu, Win7).

Ok to be fair to Apple they have NICE looking computers. The stuff they design is top notch. And even the cardboard boxed they come in look nice. So if you need something elegant to go with your furnature I guess I would go with a Mac. But until I can go into a Apple Store and see something my PC can not do without using a emulator I still see no need.

[Scott Shepherd]

So if you need something elegant to go with your furnature I guess I would go with a Mac. But until I can go into a Apple Store and see something my PC can not do without using a emulator I still see no need.

See, that's exactly my point. Just bash them all you can. It's just unfounded. Are they more expensive? Yes. Do they include service and support that you do not get with a PC? Absolutely. Do you have to buy or pay for yearly subscriptions to anti-virus programs? No (oh, wait, I know the answer to that, one day, some time in the future, you will have to because someone 3 years from now will write a virus and you'll need it then). Do you have a monitor that displays actual colors with that PC? No. Why? Because you can't buy a decent color monitor for the $129 they offer for monitors. Apple's monitors are superior to what comes with a stock PC. So want to compare things equally, then let's compare them equally. Are they more expensive? Yes. Do you get more support? Yes. Do you have less to have to pay in yearly subscriptions to keep yourself safe? Yes. Do you do graphics design work where color is critical? Then you won't do it with a monitor that can't be calibrated because it's so far off, not to mention a video card that's not capable of displaying colors properly. Want to be able to do that with your PC monitor? Good, plan on spending $600 on a monitor. So, are they more? Yes. Do you get a higher quality product and service? Sure do. Is your annual cost less. Sure is.

Also, last time I checked, Bill Gates is still the Chairman of Microsoft. So I'm not sure how he's not involved with running the company any longer, but if you say so.

[Anthony Scira]

See, that's exactly my point. Just bash them all you can. It's just unfounded. Are they more expensive? Yes. Do they include service and support that you do not get with a PC? Absolutely. Do you have to buy or pay for yearly subscriptions to anti-virus programs? No (oh, wait, I know the answer to that, one day, some time in the future, you will have to because someone 3 years from now will write a virus and you'll need it then). Do you have a monitor that displays actual colors with that PC? No. Why? Because you can't buy a decent color monitor for the $129 they offer for monitors. Apple's monitors are superior to what comes with a stock PC. So want to compare things equally, then let's compare them equally. Are they more expensive? Yes. Do you get more support? Yes. Do you have less to have to pay in yearly subscriptions to keep yourself safe? Yes. Do you do graphics design work where color is critical? Then you won't do it with a monitor that can't be calibrated because it's so far off, not to mention a video card that's not capable of displaying colors properly. Want to be able to do that with your PC monitor? Good, plan on spending $600 on a monitor. So, are they more? Yes. Do you get a higher quality product and service? Sure do. Is your annual cost less. Sure is.

Also, last time I checked, Bill Gates is still the Chairman of Microsoft. So I'm not sure how he's not involved with running the company any longer, but if you say so.

How is complimenting them on GREAT designs bashing ?

Like I said I am not bashing. I have never said don't buy a Mac. If you have the cash I would think its great to buy one. I am just saying most people could not tell the diffrence or if they could be willing to pay the diffrence for the higher end units.

I mean I am using a 24" HP monitor. Is the color correct ? I really don't know. In corel my hairline is red enough. My HD video looks pretty. Mine was 250 I think the compareable Apple one is 700. I can't afford that much for a monitor. I know its better but my $250 one does the job well. I guess if your in a graphics line of work you need the high end stuff.

Apple support is FAR superior than what you get from PC's unless you buy the gold service package.

Yep no viruses on Mac. But I have not gotten a virus on the PC. I have to work at it by staying updated by MS update. I do not download attachments and I do not open attachments in email and I have never been hit by anything.

Bottom line the average person plays on the internet, watches youtube videos. That does not require a 1500 dollar computer. That is why these netbooks have taken off. 300 bucks and your on the internet watching You Tube ! And those are running Linux !

Steve we gotta get together and have a drink after all that !

Oh yeah and I do NOT work for Microsoft.........

[Scott Shepherd]

So if you need something elegant to go with your furnature I guess I would go with a Mac.

Isn't implying that they are nothing more than pretty to fit in with your furniture saying it's nothing more than hype?


I guess if your in a graphics line of work you need the high end stuff.



Exactly my point. Guess what's not "high end graphics work" these days. Digital photography. You take a photo with a DSLR, it captures the colors, you open Photoshop on your $129 at Staples on sale monitor, think "I need to adjust the colors". You adjust them, send them to be professionally printed and they come back and you say "Humm...the colors aren't quite like I remembered".

Design a logo for someone without a high end monitor and wait until it gets printed. You're not actually seeing what the end result should look like. You have to have a very good monitor, you have to have the tools (hardware and software) to calibrate the monitor, and you start from there. So if you are into digital photography, or graphic design, you can't, with the $499 complete system from Dell, even come close to doing professional work. So yes, you got a $499 computer, but what's it good for? Surfing the internet? Typing spreadsheets? Reading email? If that's all you do, then you are 100% correct, you don't need the Mac. But to repeatedly state that the $499 Dell is in the same category with an iMac is completely false.

The iMac is ready for digital photography and graphic design. What you see on the screen is what you will get when it prints, because it will calibrate. If you've never experienced the new Apple monitors, you need to. They are stunning.

And you may not have gotten a virus, but millions of your counterparts have. You should realize that not everyone is a techno-head and understands what you should and shouldn't do on a daily basis. For 90% of the public, when the box pops up and says "You have a virus, click here to clean the virus", they have no way to know that it's anything other than something cleaning the virus. They don't know it's actually the virus. You do. Most people don't.

I'll gladly have a beer with you any time :) In fact, I'm thirsty now :) I'm buying, pony up to the bar!

[Anthony Scira]

Isn't implying that they are nothing more than pretty to fit in with your furniture saying it's nothing more than hype?



Exactly my point. Guess what's not "high end graphics work" these days. Digital photography. You take a photo with a DSLR, it captures the colors, you open Photoshop on your $129 at Staples on sale monitor, think "I need to adjust the colors". You adjust them, send them to be professionally printed and they come back and you say "Humm...the colors aren't quite like I remembered".

Design a logo for someone without a high end monitor and wait until it gets printed. You're not actually seeing what the end result should look like. You have to have a very good monitor, you have to have the tools (hardware and software) to calibrate the monitor, and you start from there. So if you are into digital photography, or graphic design, you can't, with the $499 complete system from Dell, even come close to doing professional work. So yes, you got a $499 computer, but what's it good for? Surfing the internet? Typing spreadsheets? Reading email? If that's all you do, then you are 100% correct, you don't need the Mac. But to repeatedly state that the $499 Dell is in the same category with an iMac is completely false.

The iMac is ready for digital photography and graphic design. What you see on the screen is what you will get when it prints, because it will calibrate. If you've never experienced the new Apple monitors, you need to. They are stunning.

And you may not have gotten a virus, but millions of your counterparts have. You should realize that not everyone is a techno-head and understands what you should and shouldn't do on a daily basis. For 90% of the public, when the box pops up and says "You have a virus, click here to clean the virus", they have no way to know that it's anything other than something cleaning the virus. They don't know it's actually the virus. You do. Most people don't.

I'll gladly have a beer with you any time :) In fact, I'm thirsty now :) I'm buying, pony up to the bar!

Nope I REALLY mean they have the best designed computers out there. They are beautiful. And the iPhone is a work of art.

Hey I never said a $499 dollar computer is as good as an iMac. I said that the 500 dollar computer is a great computer for a vast majority of the people.

And I will say the $499 computer would do the majority of the photo editing 99% of the average people out there. And when they put their photo album together they are not holding the pictures up to the screen saying "Man this just does not look right."

Now yes if you are a professional wedding photographer or a graphics designer. Well you are prolly making the money to buy your proper tools which includes the iMac. But also 10,000+ dollars in camera bodies and lenses.

Now you got me thinking about how accurate my color is on my monitor and how to properly adjust it...........

I think were gonna have to switch to whiskey!

[Scott Shepherd]

Anthony, great post! See, you got mixed in with those who do NOT think Mac has a place in the market. Apparently you are not one of those people :)

It's early morning, so we can start with the whiskey now :D Hey, it is the weekend :)

[Tim Morton]

Nope, don't plan on it until I know most of the bugs are gone.

Eat well and get plenty of exercise...you may be in for a long wait;)

[Greg Peterson]

So yes, you got a $499 computer, but what's it good for? Surfing the internet? Typing spreadsheets? Reading email? If that's all you do, then you are 100% correct, you don't need the Mac.

This describes many, if not most users requirements. IF I were a photo buff and had the equipment and software, Mac would certainly get a consideration.

But I use an awful lot of spreadsheets and build a ton of ad hock SQL queries. Good luck with Apples solutions for those endeavors.

Apple does their thing well and they certainly have a place. However, as badly as they may outshine MS in some areas, they are equally outshined by MS in many other areas, two of which I just described.

[Scott Shepherd]

This describes many, if not most users requirements.

Errrr.....and building ad hock SQL queries is an event most users require? Ummm....hardly. I've used Open Office for years now. It runs on Apple and I build spreadsheets all the time. Not sure what you're saying now. As most "main stream" users don't do ad hoc SQL queries either.

At least we're finally getting people to admit they do have their place in the market as opposed to the "utter waste of money" tone that runs through most of these type posts.

Also, the Mac Mini isn't $1500, it's just over $500, so the cost isn't as bad as it's made out to be either. The Mac Mini will do most all of what the average computer user wants to do, and by the time you add on your annual subscriptions to Norton or McAfee or whoever, you'd PC will be costing you MORE than the Mac.

[Anthony Scira]

Errrr.....and building ad hock SQL queries is an event most users require? Ummm....hardly. I've used Open Office for years now. It runs on Apple and I build spreadsheets all the time. Not sure what you're saying now. As most "main stream" users don't do ad hoc SQL queries either.

At least we're finally getting people to admit they do have their place in the market as opposed to the "utter waste of money" tone that runs through most of these type posts.

Also, the Mac Mini isn't $1500, it's just over $500, so the cost isn't as bad as it's made out to be either. The Mac Mini will do most all of what the average computer user wants to do, and by the time you add on your annual subscriptions to Norton or McAfee or whoever, you'd PC will be costing you MORE than the Mac.

Check this out. I think MS is going to put Norton and McAffee out of business !

http://www.microsoft.com/SECURITY_ESSENTIALS/

They have not been promoting it but its supposed to be the best out there. Hope it does not get as bloated as Norton !

[Tim Morton]

Scott don't waste your keystrokes...:p They will never get it.....and do we really want them to?:cool:

PS...did you see the new 27" imac with quad core processors???? I have several 24" imacs....but man i want the big boy now!!!:D

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Scott don't waste your keystrokes...:p They will never get it.....and do we really want them to?:cool:

PS...did you see the new 27" imac with quad core processors???? I have several 24" imacs....but man i want the big boy now!!!:D

Exactly Tim!

Yes, I saw them yesterday on an email I get from Apple......WOW!!! I like the idea of the quad core and the real estate on that widescreen is insane! My widescreeen is 18.5"....

[Scott Shepherd]

Scott don't waste your keystrokes...:p They will never get it.....and do we really want them to?:cool:

PS...did you see the new 27" imac with quad core processors???? I have several 24" imacs....but man i want the big boy now!!!:D

Tim, I did see that. I need a new keyboard now because I drooled all over my existing one :)

Every day I secretly hope my computer doesn't boot up so it can be the day I go buy a new IMac :) Stupid Dell, it keeps starting every day (despite my drooling on it) :) I thought I saw something as well about being able to have 16GB of RAM!

[Greg Peterson]

If I had never sat down in front of an IMac, you might have a valid claim. My complaints about the the system may be petty, but at the end of the day the IMac is not better, faster or more efficient than my old XP machine.

After upgrading to 10.6 it certainly didn't automatically update the drivers for the HP scanner.

Apple is so focused on looking forward, they don't even have a backspace key! Try communicating to a user to use their delete key.

Like I said, most of my issues with Apple are petty. But the bottom line is pretty simple for me, Apple doesn't provide a solution to any problem I have. If this makes me tone deaf, blind or otherwise handicapped in some fashion, so be it.

[Dave Lehnert]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpOvzGiheOM

[Kelly C. Hanna]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpOvzGiheOM

How true that one is!

[Eric Larsen]

How true that one is!

This is a truly inspired ad by Apple. Windows people (and I am one of them) have heard that the latest operating system is going to fix all the problems of the previous operating system too many times.

Mac works great for Mac people -- it isn't for me though. I like my PC games too much. I also LOVE Windows Media Center. Many programs would work for me on either a Mac or Windows -- Photoshop, Quark, Exact Audio Copy, etc.

Linux variations don't have what I need, as much as I love the IDEA of Linux. It doesn't run the programs I want. Do Linux fans expect me to play Nethack for the rest of my life? Nethack is a fun game. But I need my Civ4, Fallout 3 and (someday) Starcraft 2.

[Greg Peterson]

In the end, the computer is simply a tool to aid the user in achieving a desired result.

Apple is to computing what Festool is to woodworking.

If Apple had a product that addressed a want or need, I'd buy an Apple product.

[Anthony Scira]

How did a Windows 7 thread turn into a Mac thread ?

[Darius Ferlas]

So to get back on track... I will be upgrading 80 computers over the Christmas break to Vista SP3.... I mean Windows 7. It does what my users need and I tested it for all the business apps we run in the office. My new laptop's ETA is next Thursday and I ordered a really handsome one from Dell, and loaded with Win7.

We skipped Vista as the performance was abysmal and some of the business applications were not ready for it (or Vista wasn't ready for them).

Just two months ago I upgraded 2 Windows servers to run Exchange and BlackBerry Servers. They both run great and are very stable. The other 4 servers, and 8 network storage/backup servers run Linux.

Mac is not an option for me as it has little to offer to businesses. Where I work Adobe Photoshop is considered not a business application, but cemetery management, fleet control or GIS software are.

[Greg Peterson]

How did a Windows 7 thread turn into a Mac thread ?

The cult had to take the opportunity to plug their brand of choice as the 'clearly superior' choice. I guess their EULA's require them to look down their noses at anyone not running in their pack.

Played with 7 extensively yesterday. It does seem to boot up faster, but I'll take the two PC's and do a drag race with them this evening to see which one boots faster. The two machines are practically identical.

ITunes opens practically instantly on 7, were as on Vista it doesn't open any faster than on my seven year old XP machine. 7 automatically installed the drivers for the printer/scanner, a feat the Mac OS failed to do, both 10.5 and 10.6.

Shut down is very much improved. Under 10 seconds.

All in all, there is about as much superficial difference between 7 and Vista as there is between 10.5 and 10.6. Under the hood though, 7 appears to be snappier than Vista.

Apple took a page out of MS' book in that they reduced the foot print of their OS on the hard drive. MS' shrank the overall size of the 7 OS. Considering this was a consideration from the beginning three years ago, it is safe to say the Apple definitely decided that in order to compete with MS they too would have to produce a smaller, lighter OS. Maybe that's why the rushed 10.6 out ahead of schedule?

[Scott Shepherd]

The cult had to take the opportunity to plug their brand of choice as the 'clearly superior' choice. I guess their EULA's require them to look down their noses at anyone not running in their pack.



Super! I think you may be hard pressed to find any truth in that statement. Maybe your perception, but little truth. I don't think anyone on this thread said the Mac was superior at all, we just said that it's an option, and a valid option, not to ignore the nonsense that some people keep saying about how they were toys, not real computers, extremely high priced compared to PC's, etc.

None of which is actually true. No one said one is better than the other.

[Greg Peterson]

Scott - Whatever. You'll see the truth and facts as you see fit.

Apple is as much about technology as they are about design and making a statement (fashion, social or otherwise). To deny this aspect of the Apple culture is to be willfully ignorant. You cite sales figures as proof that Apple isn't a small company as if anyone ever argued that point. Their relative size wasn't germane to the thread, yet you somehow want to inject this one dimensional fact into a thread about 7.

Lets compare MS, Acer, Dell, Toshiba, Lenovo, Sony and everyone else. Let's put all the figures on the table and sort them in descending dominance. Apple will be near the bottom of that list.

Enjoy yourself.

Buh-bye.

[Scott Shepherd]

Greg, I'm missing my post or a post by anyone else that said apples were "Clearly superior" (your words, not mine). That's YOUR claim that no one said. So I'm clearing up a misstatement that was implied about people on this thread.

I've said it about 100 times now. I don't care what you buy, but just know there are options out there, and those options aren't as far apart when you look at the facts as they seem when the hype is put out, for instance, the price.

A Dell PC of roughly the same speed/power is $529 where the mac is $599.

Not sure what else to say, other than to repeat "no one said what you quoted", so I can't defend something I didn't say.

[Eric DeSilva]

They are selling 12,000,000 computers a year. I'm not sure what industry you are in, but selling 12,000,000 of just about anything is hardly a feat to dismiss as a "fad".

It strikes me as odd to compare stock performance of a company that gets the majority of its revenues from hardware sales against a company that just markets operating systems.

If you want to look solely at the OS side, MS has, as of about July 2009, about 86% of the client OS market. On the server side, Apple barely registers at all.

Yes, Apple may have better customer satisfaction rankings. If MS was a monopoly hardware provider, it might have better customer satisfaction rankings too. But, there are obvious costs to the consumer associated with having a sole source hardware supplier.

[Greg Peterson]

It strikes me as odd to compare stock performance of a company that gets the majority of its revenues from hardware sales against a company that just markets operating systems.

If you want to look solely at the OS side, MS has, as of about July 2009, about 86% of the client OS market. On the server side, Apple barely registers at all.

Yes, Apple may have better customer satisfaction rankings. If MS was a monopoly hardware provider, it might have better customer satisfaction rankings too. But, there are obvious costs to the consumer associated with having a sole source hardware supplier.

Well said.

[Scott Shepherd]

You are both right, there is no other OS than MS, we should all ignore everything else and just buy MS stuff. I agree. MS is king, MS has the best products ever. I'm going to download Windows 7 now.

[Eric Larsen]

You are both right, there is no other OS than MS, we should all ignore everything else and just buy MS stuff. I agree. MS is king, MS has the best products ever. I'm going to download Windows 7 now.

Most of the windows users here have voiced anywhere from "reservations" to "outright contempt" for Microsoft and its products.

We're trying to decide whether to upgrade the OS that does the work that we need it to do.

Mac vs. Windows vs. Linux discussions have their place. I don't think this is one of them.

[Greg Peterson]

Funny story.

It was Apple that forced me to upgrade my OS.

I was running W2K for six or seven years and it worked just fine for me. However, Apple decided to pull the plug on that OS. I couldn't run ITunes, which is the only software Apple will let the IPod work with. I also couldn't run Quicktime because their current version at that time didn't support W2K.

So I bought a laptop this past summer that was loaded with the much maligned Vista but also included a free upgrade to 7. Vista has been solid for me, and 7 on my wifes machine seems to be solid so far.

I use on an IMac with great regularity at work. It's just another computer to me. I do not find it to be an exceptional machine and the OS is just a different GUI. I don't get the hype, but then I don't get the hype about Gibson Les Pauls. I'm a Fender man first and fore most.

Now I can run all the apps and hardware I want to or need to run. My Office 97 apps even run under Vista and 7.

[Dan Mages]

I have been running Windows 7 public preview since I bought my new laptop about 2 months ago. Overall, I am impressed with the system compared to XP on my old computer. I never used Vista, so I have no basis of comparison. I especially like the ability to pin applications to the taskbar and the open recently used files by that application by right clicking on it. I also like the ability to switch between monitor profiles with the windows + P key shortcut.

I also updated my netbook to Ubuntu 9.10 Netbook Remix this morning. It is a dramatic improvement over 9.04. It is faster with a cleaner interface.

Dan

I must also say that whoever chose those wallpaper options must have been smokin something funny.

[Ryan Cassidy]

I've been using the RTM (Release to Manufactures) release for about 2 months now. I absolutely love it. Upgrade was easy as eating cake, Hasn't once crashed on me and it certainly manages memory better than vista/xp etc etc. Well worth the upgrade.

[Anthony Scira]

How true that one is!

Its really a cute commercial but untrue. Just like each release of the Apple OS there are incremental improvements. With each release of Windows there have been improvements. There was never a promise "This will be the LAST OS you will ever have to buy !" I know, I know Vista. Well there were improvements but the flaws outweighed the improvements in that case. But Vista SP2 works great.