Marketing Problem

[Steve Clarkson]

I just e-mailed some photos to someone and my e-mail ended up in their SPAM folder.....is there anyway to prevent that from happening? I'm wondering how often it HAS happened and I didn't know about it.

[Scott Challoner]

I've wondered the same thing. It seems like anytime you attach a photo, some filters route it right to spam. I think the best thing to do is follow up with a phone call.

[James Jaragosky]

I just e-mailed some photos to someone and my e-mail ended up in their SPAM folder.....is there anyway to prevent that from happening? I'm wondering how often it HAS happened and I didn't know about it.
There is no way to keep all your emails out of a spam box.
Some things get your mail marked as spam. like haveing one of the people you send a email to hit the spam button on you. If this happens a few times, then all your mail will be filtered; and it can be a pain to get taken off of the spam filter list. google,yahoo,aol, msn all have there own fiter lists devoloped from costomer feedback (pressing the spam button) and other criteria.

[onur cakir]

Hi Steve,

Did you mailed only -one- person ?

Only photos -without- text ?

If so i always write something even i just want to send only photos. I e-mail around 500 architects per month and every single mail hits inbox. For marketing mails i just create an outlook draft file (*.oft) and send mails one by one. Its easy to copy mail add. click oft and paste +send.

[Steve Clarkson]

Yes, I always write something in the body....and I usually send a photo attachment.

I was wondering if my e-mail address somehow got marked as spam and I'm now on that secret Google/AOL/MSN spam list. If so, can you get off? Does it matter whether I am using a g-mail account verses a domain name (ie. steve@mcdonalds.com) e-mail address?

[Doug Griffith]

There are a few things you can do but it all really depends on the spam filterering level on the receiving end.

1) get them to put your email address on their white list
2) use an email service such as gmail that incorporates domain keys. Domain keys is basically a way to confirm that the sending email address is not spoofed.
3) make sure your email setting's return email address is the same as your service provider.
4) don't put too much sales jargon in the content of the email. Spam filters usually weigh content. This means don't have more links in the message than content.

That is just the tip of the iceberg.

Cheers

[Mike Null]

Steve

Many of my customers have spam filters which automatically identify mail with attachments as junk mail. Even if they're properly addressed to the person I want to send the email to.

Mine (Outlook) does the same thing along with some other filters that are automatic.

I have to screen my junk for sender before deleting it.

[Dan Hintz]

Steve,

You getting marked as spam has as much to do with the destination domain as it does the source. The best way to prevent it from happening in the future with known clients is to have them whitelist your email address. Obviously this does no good with new clients.

If you're sending images, zip them... spam tends to include a lot of images as a way around text filters. If you're including web sites, do not make it a hotlink... if your program insists on making it a hotlink, leave off the www portion and tell people to add it manually (half of the time it's not even necessary). Send links to files rather than attaching the actual file to reduce the likelihood of programs automatically round-filing emails with attachments. Use clear titles so anyone manually scanning their spam folder will be able to pick it out of the lineup. If you're using an online mail program (e.g., HotMail, Yahoo!, etc.) to transmit or receive messages, expect the spam filters to do exactly what you don't want them to do...

[Steve Clarkson]

Attachments and hotlinks........those are some of the main reasons why I'm sending the e-mail!!!!!

Thanks!

[Scott Shepherd]

As others have said, there is no way to know once you hit the send button.

Only sure fire way to find out is to pick up the phone and call them. You know, the phone, the thing that we all used to used to talk to people? You remember talking, right? It was the previous form of communication before email :)

I've seen some terrible email chains were people got in trouble and just about lost their jobs because they relied on email for almost all communication. They went back and forth for weeks, blaming each other, and when we said "Did you call them?", they got blank looks on their faces and said "Ummm, no".

PICK UP THE PHONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Trust me, customers love to hear from you, especially if you are trying to help them.

I used to be heavy into technology, now I'm beginning to hate it.

[Dan Hintz]

I used to be heavy into technology, now I'm beginning to hate it.
As with anything, technology has its time and place. If people cannot figure out what those times and places are, they are going to screw something up. I often lament technology, but when I stop and think about it, I can (almost) always properly blame it on a human. For example, when the UPC scanner doesn't work at the self-help checkout stations... sounds like a technology issue, but in the end I can blame the store manager for not having a single person at the other registers (this happened to me last week while in Home Depot), as well as not checking on equipment failures that have been there for more than 24 hours (without a note warning people away from the machine).

The technology failed to work, but the blame in not having a work-around lies squarely on a human's shoulders. If email isn't working and no one steps up to the plate with a phone call, who do you blame?

[Brian Niehoff]

If changing the content of your emails does not work; you could simply ask them to confirm they received your email. Then again you are relying on the customer, and a follow up call never hurts.

[Scott Shepherd]

If email isn't working and no one steps up to the plate with a phone call, who do you blame?

Bill Gates :D

Only kidding. I agree Dan, it's really not "technology" that's at fault, it's people's inability to use technology. I'm almost numb to stupid people forwarding emails with the entire conversation, private and confidential conversations, because they are too stupid to use email properly. That, and "reply all" to an email that that 100's of people on it.

In my world, if I were King, we'd remove computers from all those people's desks and give them a pad of paper and pencil because they can't use the tools we gave them to do their job.

[AL Ursich]

I use Confirm the email photos please or a Phone Call and follow it up with a just text email to the same customer.

Just how I handle it....

AL

[Dan Hintz]

Another possibility...

Send one email with your main text, along with a note that a second email will follow shortly with image attachments and/or hotlinks, as well as a request to whitelist the email address. Mention in the first email that if the second does not appear within 5 minutes, check the spam folder.

After that, if they don't whitelist your address and emails continue to be lost to spam folders, you can start charging them a FOAD fee as they obviously feel you should waste as much of your own time as possible with follow-up emails/calls.

[Martin Boekers]

Steve,

Do you use Outlook?

If you do and your reciprient does there is and option you
can select that will inform you if it's delivered and if it's read.

Other than that include a line in the body asking for a reply
that they recieved it.


Marty

[Dan Hintz]

Other than that include a line in the body asking for a reply that they recieved it.
This is fine if the people you're working with are prompt. Most people I've encountered (myself included), however, do not reply to an email the instant it comes in. I've had days (or weeks) go by without a reply because it wasn't a priority to them... the work was a priority, but evidently answering questions to get that work started in a timely fashion wasn't.

[Doug Griffith]

Steve,

Do you use Outlook?

If you do and your reciprient does there is and option you
can select that will inform you if it's delivered and if it's read.

Other than that include a line in the body asking for a reply
that they recieved it.

Marty

I do not think return receipts are that helpful because they give a false assurance that the email was read. There are many email clients that do not reply and a reply only indicates that the email was received. It does not indicate if it was read or for that matter, filtered as spam by the receiver. Another way is to track by embedding code in an image or a link. But then those have to be clicked by the recipient (this is why you shouldn't click links or load images in spam because it reports that your email address is real and then it is harvested).

[Darren Null]

I am old and tired in the ways of email. I have had the same domain since 1995 and it gets spammed into oblivion. 2000+/day that get past the filters. On the plus side I know within 5 minutes if my email is down.

Sending email is blocked/scanned/scrutinised and messed around with in various ways; from filtering the sending; through the relays; down to the recipient's service. All to stop spam. Attachments in particular are scrutinised, because there's an awful lot of 'click here to view your parcel details/invoice/photo of currently fashionable bimbo/bank thingy' etc.

Really, the best way of getting your message through is to upload any attachments to your webspace and include them as links in your email. This is a good thing to do anyway, as the email format adds 10-40% to the sent filesize to send the information via the email protocol.

Also, have at least 2 completely separate routes for email, incoming and outgoing. That way if one fails, you can use the other. Gmail does POP/IMAP and SMTP, so that's one. Right now, you can get a .info domain for 89c from godaddy.com and free hosting (including email) from myfirehost.com (amongst others). Even if you never use the webspace it's worth it. The thing is, with 2 independent routes, you can send the actual email via one and a 'sent email' confirmation via another if it's important.

Back in the day, I used to run a desktop mailserver, after my ISP dropped a couple of important ones (that cost me a bundle). Don't even try these days. You'll be blocked everywhere.

On the receiving end, there's a bunch of ways of filtering out spam. Probably the worst one for anyone sending an email to somebody new is the 'whitelist' system; where you have to approve everybody you want to receive email from. "If it ain't on the list it ain't coming in". Word filters (don't work), blacklisted IP ranges, all sorts of stuff.

[Dan Hintz]

Darren,

Your camel link is broken and I'm Jonesing to get in.... uhm, I mean, you should really verify your signature for correctness :P

Try SpamBayes... it's a Bayesian filter, and once programmed (over time), does an amazing job of trimming the fat from your spam folder. Google uses something similar.

[Martin Boekers]

Doug,

Actually on Outlook you can request a delivery reciept and a read reciept.

When the email is opened, (if you request a read reciept) the reciprient gets a dialog box that he or she must acknowledge as read or unread. Then a return goes back to the sender as read or unread with a date and a time stamp.

I use this all the time on base for my documentation as much of my work comes through email. Sometimes they change the layout or add to it this way I have documentation if something is awry.

This is Outlook though, It only works with both parties using Outlook.


Marty



I do not think return receipts are that helpful because they give a false assurance that the email was read. There are many email clients that do not reply and a reply only indicates that the email was received. It does not indicate if it was read or for that matter, filtered as spam by the receiver. Another way is to track by embedding code in an image or a link. But then those have to be clicked by the recipient (this is why you shouldn't click links or load images in spam because it reports that your email address is real and then it is harvested).

[Scott Shepherd]

When the email is opened, (if you request a read reciept) the reciprient gets a dialog box that he or she must acknowledge as read or unread. Then a return goes back to the sender as read or unread with a date and a time stamp.

Hate to burst anyone's bubble, but I never ever check "send the receipt" back when someone sends me an email like that. I'm not alone either.

The reasoning is old and rooted in the corporate world where people used that tool to play "gotcha" in meetings. "Don't say you didn't know about it, I have a read receipt from your email that said you read my memo where I discussed it".

No, you have a receipt that says I opened it, not that I read it. You didn't hear the phone ring while I was reading it, you didn't see the 3 guys from the shop floor who came into my office while I was still on the phone, and you didn't see me spend the next 12 hours trying to solve a problem on the floor.

So no, I didn't "read" your email, I opened it, and then work got in the way and I didn't read it.

I have several friends in the insurance business and they request that on all their emails. So I get emails that say "Want to go grab a beer and watch the game at Buffalo Wild Wings Thursday night?", with a request for a receipt. Drives me crazy. I don't have a lot of pet peeves, but that's one of them :D

[Steve Clarkson]

My pet peeve is people who do read your e-mail and then don't give you the courtesy of a reply.....especially friends!

When I send an e-mail that says...."Want to go grab a beer and watch the game at Buffalo Wild Wings Thursday night? I'm BUYING!!!" and they STILL don't reply.....drives me nuts.

And no jokes about my friends not wanting to out with me either! It was just an example!

[Martin Boekers]

Scott,

If they close it down I get a "did not read" response automatically.

I have responsibilities too and if a client says he changed, canceled or needs it sooner, if I don't or he doesn't have back up to support his or my own stance, it's my butt in the ringer by default.

At least I know he got it, if he doesnt read it I know that too, then I can work with alternate communications. Being a small shop I can't be on the phone all the time or I wouldn't have time to laser:)

FAXs are even worse.

I too am not a real fan of email but I get clients all the time that phone me and want to tell me what they want on the plaque. It's easy to mishear something or they say it wrong and with no paper back up it's tough to deal with.

Things are busy too where I work, but I'd rather deal with the inconvienience of email than the phone ringing off the hook and dealing with voice mail.

Sorry but I'm one of those that send it on everything.

It's may be different here for me as all my clients are required to use Outlook.

If they send me an image I always tell them to ask for a return reciept. That way they knoew I got it.

Over half of the work I do is through email.


Marty

[Scott Shepherd]

I don't use outlook, I use Thunderbird. It says "the sender of the message has requested a receipt. Do you want to send a receipt" and I get a yes/no type button. I click no or cancel (can't recall which one it says), so I'm not sure they are getting any response from me.

Want to try it? I'll PM you my email and let's try it.

[Dan Hintz]

I don't use outlook, I use Thunderbird. It says "the sender of the message has requested a receipt. Do you want to send a receipt" and I get a yes/no type button. I click no or cancel (can't recall which one it says), so I'm not sure they are getting any response from me.
You posted before I could... same situation here. Thunderbird >>>x10>>> Outlook. I turn off receipts automatically. I'll let you know when I wish to respond to your email, I don't want you to force it down my throat. You don't get back a response to let you know when I've listened to messages on my answering machine or cell phone, but I'm sure someone will try to figure out how to do it.

[Darren Null]

Another way is to track by embedding code in an image or a link. But then those have to be clicked by the recipient
No code necessary. Embed an internet image into the email (on your webspace) and then just watch your server logs to see it the image is requested or not. Web bugging it's called. For bonus points and max stealth the image should be a 1x1px transparent gif. You don't even need an image really, as the request will show on the logs anyway, but the red x would show up in the email then.

I use The Bat, and it doesn't return receipts and it doesn't download images from the net unless I tell it to.

It's may be different here for me as all my clients are required to use Outlook.
Lordy you've got understanding clients. If I was required to use the most efficient virus vector known to mankind by somebody who wanted my business, there could only be one answer and it'd end in 'off'. I don't have outlook installed on my system. If I see outlook in the mail headers, I immediately award -10 points for technological cluelessness and dumb down my answers accordingly.

Dan- I've got my thumb on the spam- 99% goes straight into trash from my desktop filters. I could filter on the server, but it's easier from the desktop. Also I know email is up if the trash folder counter increments every 5 minutes.
Sorry about the link...I got it off eBay and the seller swore it was working when it left his place.....

[John Barton]

I use Gmail to send my mail. I have stopped using outlook and other desktop clients. I have not however changed my email addresses.

In Gmail you can set it up to retrieve mail from your other email addresses (technically from your other email accounts) Then you can set as many "send as" identities as you like.

So for example, I get my email from several accounts and I have identities set up for each of them so I can send an email right back and the sender will only see the email AS IF it came from my original account. In reality though Google's servers and software is handling the transmission. So since Google KNOWS that I am not a spammer my email doesn't get blacklisted globally.

That doesn't mean that someone's software on their computer won't inadvertently send good email to the spam folder but it means that the email you send out isn't Google's global list UNLESS enough people have reported your email address as spam, which is unlikely if it's not really spam.

Someone could manually report it but again it takes a significant number of reports to make the global spam lists that all the spam filters use to stay updated.

I have never been happier with my email than I am using Gmail. It's not perfect and there are some features that I wish were there but since starting with it two years ago and having gone through numerous crashes on my harddrives I am super happy with the fact that in two years I haven't lost a single email. I have yet to see an email routed to spam that wasn't spam. The filtering is great.

In today's world you can never really know what happens to your emails once you send them. People have an idea that email is infallible when in fact it's quite fragile and getting more fragile.

So my advice is to always follow up if you have sent something that you would normally expect to see a reply from.

If you are depending on email as a marketing tool then I highly suggest that you look into some sort of opt-in plus verification script that allows your recipients to verify that they do indeed want to receive your monthly ads in their email box.

There might be other things you can do as well if you search Google. This is just my suggestion.

For me - Gmail has solved all of my email issues. As well it's WAY WAY different than Hotmail/Yahoo Mail and any other type of Internet based email that I have used.

[Darren Null]

Second vote for GMail. I use it via a desktop client though, and run all the addresses where I don't control the domain/can't be bothered to set up a mailserver through it.

As good as it is, I'd still recommend having a separate email route for Google's bad hair days. The best and cheapest way is to get a cheap .info domain and a freebie hosting account (check that they do SMTP though, not all the freebies do). That gives you your own personal mailserver with SSL and vanity-plate .info email address for 89c. Can't argue with that.

[John Barton]

I used to be heavy into technology, now I'm beginning to hate it.

I am with you here. I have recently gone back to the original tablet computer - a sketchpad and a pencil coupled with those other two peripherals scissors and tape to mock up my ideas.

I do think that a lot of us are starting to feel how we thought "technology" would cure all of our problems and we are now finding that it often creates new ones that continue to sap our energy.

For example - I spent weeks trying to find an online collaboration platform that would allow me and my customers and suppliers to "be on the same page" literally when we talk. The only problem is that these magical solutions only work in certain conditions and they also require a certain amount of savvy and willingness on the part of the users. So after settling on the one I thought would work Zoho I think I tried it out on several suppliers and customers, with the exact same results each time....

Me: So go here to www.utopiamindmeld.com and you can see what I am working on. Go ahead and sign up. All right now check your email and confirm it and then click on the link insides the email....now go to the project url I gave you before......

Them: It's coming up really slowly, oh there you are, I can see the sketch now, sort of, what should I do now?

Me: Well you can choose the pen tool in the upper right corner and then choose your line width in the lower corner properties and choose another color so we can see which parts of the sketch are yours and which part is mine......

Them: Can I just call you?

Me: Sure, that would be better.

:-)

[Bob Savage]

Only sure fire way to find out is to pick up the phone and call them. You know, the phone, the thing that we all used to used to talk to people? You remember talking, right? It was the previous form of communication before email :)

I've seen some terrible email chains were people got in trouble and just about lost their jobs because they relied on email for almost all communication. They went back and forth for weeks, blaming each other, and when we said "Did you call them?", they got blank looks on their faces and said "Ummm, no".

PICK UP THE PHONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Trust me, customers love to hear from you, especially if you are trying to help them.

I used to be heavy into technology, now I'm beginning to hate it.

How true this is!!!

Plus, if the marketing e-mail is being sent unsolicited, there's a good chance that it's going into the trash even if the SPAM filter doesn't catch it.

I suggest making an effort to contact the person, whether it's e-mail or the phone, well before sending marketing materials, then follow up with a phone call if possible.

[Bob Savage]

I do not think return receipts are that helpful because they give a false assurance that the email was read.

External e-mail (i.e. not within a corporate messaging system) receipts generally require the client e-mail application to send the receipt. Most of these clients will ask the recipient if they want to send the receipt. I always click No and cancel the send of the return receipt. If it's important for them to know I got it, they can call. :)

Some mail infrastructures allow internal mail routers/hubs to send receipts along way, for every hop, but this is again almost always going to be an internal mail system.

[Bob Savage]

I am old and tired in the ways of email. I have had the same domain since 1995 and it gets spammed into oblivion. 2000+/day that get past the filters. On the plus side I know within 5 minutes if my email is down.


Darren, Google offers a free service (look up Google Apps) where you can point your MX records to Gmail. Gmail has one of the best SPAM algorythms ever, in my opinion. I've used Gmail for a number of years now, and we're using Postini at work (Google bought them, and I believe it's the same algorythm for Gmail), and between the two, I can recall only one mis-flagged message over the years and the SPAM frequency is low enough that I don't care about it.

[Darren Null]

It's not a problem, but thanks. Back in the day I made the mistake of submitting my site to search engines using software and my actual email address. As a result, this one address is on every mailing list ever.

2k a day make it past various spam filters, and maybe 20 a day make it past my desktop filters. I like it this way for 2 reasons:
1) I'll know within 5 minutes if my mailserver is down
2) If there's something compelling that makes it through the filters, I can pretty well guarantee that a friend/family member/client will click on it and give themselves a dose. So my Trash folder is also an up-to-the-minute spammers digest, complete with IP addresses and code samples. It helps.

[Dan Hintz]

I have used the same email address(es) for quite a few years, and I see the spam tide ebb and flow in monthly cycles. One has been my main business contact, so everyone and their uncle has it, as well as being the point of contact for my webpage (i.e., spam bots can, and do, automatically grab it). I have considered dropping this account (phasing it out over a year or two) and moving to a form-based contact system on my website. Other than laziness, the only thing keeping me from doing it is worrying how customers will perceive the increasingly impersonal ways to contact me...

[Doug Griffith]

the point of contact for my webpage (i.e., spam bots can, and do, automatically grab it). I have considered dropping this account (phasing it out over a year or two) and moving to a form-based contact system on my website.

A solution to the above is to use a javascript email obfuscator. The visitor's link clicking experience remains the same and email harvesting spiders see gibberish.

As for filtering, I use extensive .procmailrc recipes on the server side and then forward what gets through to yahoo mail where it gets filtered again. I have about 20 email addresses that work this way (some I've had for 10 years) and get very little spam or false positives.

[Dan Hintz]

A solution to the above is to use a javascript email obfuscator. The visitor's link clicking experience remains the same and email harvesting spiders see gibberish.
Unfortunately, the more advanced bots manage to see through this ruse. Been there, done that.

[Doug Griffith]

Unfortunately, the more advanced bots manage to see through this ruse. Been there, done that.

I use one that is almost impossible to get through - unless the bot processes javascript, reads the screen, or can tell "69eE@QiiMSSve619MSS.E28" is an email address. Other obfuscators simply convert "me_at_website_dot_com" or encoded strings to useful code.

[Phil Garcia]

I can't add anything else that everyone else hasn"t except that there are a couple of things that will get you into the spam folder or not onto your clients mail server at all.
First, do not send anything with an executable file attached to it, i.e. Efax with viewer and such things(PDF's or other flat files are always accepted by mail server's) and secondly, do not use or bounce thru a proxy server to hide your IP(some people like to do this for privacy)...that's my two cents worth.:D

[Jeanette Brewer]

When I send an e-mail that says...."Want to go grab a beer and watch the game at Buffalo Wild Wings Thursday night? I'm BUYING!!!" and they STILL don't reply.....drives me nuts.

Steve C,

I absolutely, positively promise that you will get a reply from me ANYTIME you send me this email -- especially if we're going to watch the Cowboy game.

[Phil Garcia]

Jeanette, I guess we could meet locally and send the bill to Steve in New York...LOL

[Steve Clarkson]

How about I just send you my credit card number?

Now you might convince me to go watch an archived Cowboys game.....with Drew, Preston, Roger and Tony......but probably not one from this season.

[Steve Clarkson]

I use one that is almost impossible to get through - unless the bot processes javascript, reads the screen, or can tell "69eE@QiiMSSve619MSS.E28" is an email address. Other obfuscators simply convert "me_at_website_dot_com" or encoded strings to useful code.


Ask a simple question and then Doug and Dan get involved. :)

You guys lost me like four posts ago.

[Dan Hintz]

You guys lost me like four posts ago.
Get some of your friends to actually join you in a few beers and you may begin to understand like we do :cool:

[Phil Garcia]

Thanks Steve...just be sure to send me one with a very high limit...you know when I watch a Cowboy game I like to celebrate...oh also I might want to order some material from Johnson Plastics..LOL.
However, I did try my hand lately at making some homemade beer, a Lager type and I was surprise on how well it turned out...A Mighty 6% Alcohol.. I wish I could send you a bottle but I already drank it all...maybe on the next batch. :D

[Howard Rosenberg]

And before you send them your first e-mail, ask them to whitelist your e-mail address.

That's what tells the other person's e-mail program to give e-mails from your adress permission to come to their inbox rather than get bounced to their spam folder.

HTH

Howard

[Bill Cunningham]

One of the very best goldmines for address harvesters, are those clods, that 'forward' crap to you, and two hundred others at the same time.. It only takes one of those clods to click on a spamzombiecreator.link in some email, and you, along with the two hundred others in that email, have just provided 'live' addresses.. Whenever someone sends me a 'multi' forward my incoming spam takes a real jump. I forward most to spamcop. My kids used to forward me stuff like that, so I set up a address companyspamdump@yahoo.com (the spiders can have that freebee) and use it whenever I have to leave an address with a unknown organization, or for my kids to send crap to.. I look in it once a month or so...maybe.. Also.. NEVER send web 'greeting cards' a secondary industry for many of them is selling live addresses.. What REALLY bugs me is the stupidity of email systems/ISP's that 'bounce' spam emails to the 'return address'. Are they so freaking stupid as to believe the return address is where it 'really' came from?? When I switched ISP's a few years ago, I delayed about 20 minutes in setting up my trash filters to trash this 'postmaster' crud, and in 20 minutes I had over 3000, bounced spams to my address which was obviously being spoofed by the spam morons..Grrrrrrr :mad::mad::mad: