Large Plane dilemna, shoulder plane or 60 1/2R Rabbeting plane ?

[Erwin Graween]

Hi all.

I'm posting to have your toughts about these two planes. As I'm planing a purchase.
I know it sounds there different, but ...

The small rabbeting (like LN 60 1/2R) plane is only a little larger than a large shoulder plane (ex LN 73). Both can be used to clean tenon cheeks.
They could both be used to clean tenon shoulder, although the shoulder plane is more designed for that.
They both can be used also to make some small raised panels. But in this case the length of the big shoulder plane is in my mind more an asset.
Also they can both be used for other stuff.

Now I already own a Stanley #92, and a 60 1/2. So will one of the two help me with tenons or should I keep my cash to buy something else ? Like I'm spotting LV BU Jointer plane. Or LV Side rebate skew plane (but don't want to buy twe 2 of them ...). Should I keep going with my #92 and regular 60 1/2 for cleaning tenons and rebate ?
I also have a Stanley #78 for rebates, but usually go with a router (my neander exceptions :p) and clean only with #78 or #92

I already own the following planes:
Stanley 60 1/2, LN 60 1/2 (with low bedding, but different honing angles for blades)
Stanley #4, #5, #8 (mainly for flattening, first smoothing large panels),
Stanley #78 (not really pleased with ...never had good results)
Stanley #80
LV BU Smoother, and Jack.
Stanley #79 and #71.
Stanley #50.
Stanley #92 (averagely pleased).

Instead of the rabbet on shoulder what would you go for ? What I'm missing.

Thanks for opinions.

[harry strasil]

for the cheeks, make yourself a Tenon Router, shoulder planes are for shoulders.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/tenonrouter03.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/tenonrouter02.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/tenonrouter01.jpg

[Jim Koepke]

Erwin,

It looks like you may already have what you need. Improvement is always fun though.

One question would be what is the problem with the #78? I have the Record equivalent and it works well for what it supposed to do.

For trimming shoulders, the #92 and the #79 are both very usable. A larger shoulder plane would be a good choice if it fits in with your plans.

The important consideration that is left out at this point is what kind of work you will be doing. You mention making raised panels. It may be more advantageous for you to start looking at panel raising planes.

Your profile does not show your location. You might want to check the LN web site to see if any shows will be in your area in the near future to give you an opportunity to get some hands on with the tools.

jim

[Erwin Graween]

Hi.

Jim I updated my profile location. As you can see, I live in France. So trying tools is kind of more than hard :(
Also, even with nice retunr policy from many vendors, the shipping costs are very high, so this is not an option.
Here the only woodworking shows with lot of handtools, are in England, and that makes it expensive too. Over here, there's not a lot of this kind of activity. My guess, French like more electrical tools, than hand tools.

However. I undestand and must give it a try, that the 71 router is fine for tuning tenons cheek. The 92 is working somehow not so bad, but I think I'm not great at tuning it, and honing the blade right (I saw you article about the #92, it helped !)

I was thinking that a quality bigger shoulder plane might help.
Now I'm confused, because, maybe what I need is more a better rebate plane. I don't do big panel, so not sure I need panel raising plane, as a good rebate plane can help (like veritas skew one).
For the 78 is kind of the same. I'm not sure I use it right. The fence is not really great, and I always have to tune the rabbet once it is cut. Take me a long time. And the cut for the side is rough.

I must keep thinking... Although my budget is limited :)

Thank you.

[Roger Benton]

i have the LN med shoulder plane and although it took me a while to get used to the akwardness of using such a large tool on smaller tenons, i have come to really enjoy it and i'm using it more and more. it is excellent at cleaning tenons and shoulders after cutting with a dado stack and i also use it to clean or adjust smaller rabbets. i have a stanley 78 but the cap iron has broken and i haven't gotten around to hunting a new one down, mostly because the LN plane does a pretty good job picking up the slack.

[Jim Koepke]

For the 78 is kind of the same. I'm not sure I use it right. The fence is not really great, and I always have to tune the rabbet once it is cut. Take me a long time. And the cut for the side is rough.

I must keep thinking... Although my budget is limited :)

Thank you.

Erwin,
You are welcome.

I know the feeling of the limited budget. I am not sure how second hand or old tools are sold in France. Who knows, maybe there is a new industry to be started.

I also understand your 78 dissatisfaction. I seldom use mine. Instead I like to use a Stanley 45 for rabbets. The fence is much better. Not sure if there are many of them available in your area. There may be equivalents available. They were also made by Record and Clifton. Many makers made a similar plane. Stanley made a few different models, #46 and #50 come to mind.

With a little work and a batten to guide it, a shoulder plane can be used to cut rabbets. It will surely do better work on a tenon & shoulder than any of the others mentioned.

Good luck,

jim

[Erwin Graween]

Hi.

Jim in fact I have a #50. And in fact the fence is better, but still not so easy to set up correctly.
Although I'm missing the small cutter adjustement screw. I tried to get one from St James Tool Bay, but I'm sending mails from more than a year and never got answers .... That's an other story.
Also, I have a project of making myslef some blades in metrics (instead of imperial), because as you guess here the measurement, and standard dimensions are in metrics.

I use it for cutting grooves for doors or other things. I never tried to use it for rabbet. As suggeted on a other forum I could make a groove with the #50 the clean to form a rabbet with shoudler plane ... Nice hack :cool:

So finally here are my thoughts. I should try to use the 71 for tenons. Try to tune and use better my 92 (or replace it with with a better one). And probably need to buy a good fillister/rebate plane.

For the #45 there are expensive and rare over here (often goes above 200$ + shipping around 45/60$).
That's mostly the reason why I buy new tools from good company (LN, LV, ...) because costs are so high. I check a few times a week the classifieds here, and ebay.

For a business, I'm not sure it would work here. People interested like me use ebay or equivalent to find and buy things. The other one, I guess there's not interested (maybe for deco :D)

I bought some tools on yard sales here, people had no ideas about what the tool was or a faire price for it.

Thanks again.
My budget is growing as birthday and christmas are around ;) so purchase is on the way, but I wan't want to buy the right tool to complete my set, no unecessary tools.

[Jim Koepke]

Try to tune and use better my 92 (or replace it with with a better one).

Erwin,
Not sure if you saw what I did to my shoulder plane to tune it:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=119301

If you know or find any techniques that are not included, please add them to the thread.

jim

[Erwin Graween]

Hi,

Yes Jim I saw that thread. Interesting one.

Thank you.
I'll try to tune it. Now I must find time to do so. I already have so much to do :eek: !!

[Richard Niemiec]

I think its good to remember that 78s are really meant for rough work, not fine work. Getting the rabbet down to close with the 78, then trimming it up with another plane. Can't expect too, too much from a 78.