shaper blades for table saws ?

[Scott Perkins47]

I have two instructional books from the 1960s and 1970s
that describe the use of shaper blades for table saws
with many different profiles. They appear to simply
be sophisticated dado blades. Does anyone know
if those kinds of blades are still available from anywhere?
Since todays table saws are so much better, I cannot
see any reason why they would discontinue them unless
all the mfgrs got together and decided they would rather
sell routers and shapers instead.

[Andrew Joiner]

Search for a moulding head. I have some older Sears brand and they work great. This is similar. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00028DLOW

Mine only cost about $20 in 1980. They aren't carbide but they cut smooth and can be honed easily.

[Chip Lindley]

Moulding heads and cutters are pretty common on eBay. Craftsman sets are usually dirt cheap! Rockwell/Delta sets bring a bit more! Lots of bang for the buck either way for making small mouldings on the tablesaw.

And then there is the LRH Magic Moulder, which is a bit more high-tech (and pricy), but I doubt any more effective than the older sets mentioned above.

[Vince Shriver]

I'm not sure if this is what you mean: there is a product call Magic Moulder; it's a thick wheel that accomodates two balanced interchangeable cutters, secured and locked into packets opposite each other. They make it for both the table saw and for a shaper. Ridge Carbide sells it, along with others. I've seen a video of it in action; it looks pretty slick. It's also pricey.

[J.R. Rutter]

The Magic Moulder is spendy, but works very well and is inherently safe: balanced, captured inserts.

[Paul Atkins]

I have 2 different moulding heads with a bunch of cutters I have modified for various uses. One is for short beaded columns like this setup. Works for me.

[Joe Scharle]

Paul, could I see the business end of your indexing jig?
Thx, Joe

[glenn bradley]

Paul, that is a sweet column rig.

[Carroll Courtney]

Please start another thread on your setup and lots of pics please.?That beats the heck out of using a lathe.---Carroll

[Scott Perkins47]

Appparently there are many things that can be done on a Table Saw
shaper that cannot be done on a router due to being able to tilt
the blade or table and being able to put a profile in the middle
of a large board etc.

[Peter Quinn]

A friend just gave me two sets, a craftsman and a Delta, from his retired fathers tools he inherited. They are HSS inserts unlike the LRH which I think are carbide? Most of the inserts look brand new. They strike me as the scariest looking contraptions for most things I use a shaper for that I can think of. The only profile that is not brand new is the beading cutter, which is probably the only one I would ever consider using. There is actually a cope and stick set in each kit. Can you imagine standing the work on edge to pass it over a TS while taking out a 3/4" profile? Or trying to bump the TS fence back and forth to get that perfect fit? I doubt I will ever use these things except as conversation pieces.

I'd guess the reason you see them less is not a conspiracy, but more likely a strange idea whose usefulness has largely been replaced by router tables and less expensive carbide.

[Larry Rasmussen]

I used one of these molder heads to build cabinet trim for a little shop I had and then for the trim on a cabin we added on to. Didn't know what a router was then, about 30 yrs ago. I had been looking at the magic molding head set up, come upon it at Holbren's site but it was more than I wanted to pay. Anyway I was in Sears a couple months ago and there it was hanging up on the wall- probably the exact same molding head for table saw use that I had way back when. Although the idea is kind of spooky if they're locked in they're not going anywhere. I've never heard of an accident. Just some random observations.

Larry R,
Seattle

[Rick Potter]

I have several Sears sets, plus about 22 profiles. I admit I don't use them much, but the times I have they have done a great job. I always make a zero clearance setup for them. Of course, you cannot use them on MDF because they are not carbide. Takes about 5 minutes to sharpen a set of three, using a piece of wet and dry stuck on the saw table.

Rick Potter

[Paul Atkins]

Ok, here is the only other photo I have of the index setup for that column. I made the aluminum plate with my drill press and an index jig. I haven't used this for a couple of years since I set up a router on my big lathe. I will start another thread with some picts, and more info. This setup works pretty well though. I used a 1/2 piece of drill rod for the center and a 1/8" piece for the index pin.

[Rick Lizek]

http://www.corobcutters.com/ ...moulder heads
The LRH are a superior version. Carbide lasts longer and can be used in MDF and many of the modern materials. They make several heads including a shaper head that uses the same inserts. They will also do custom cutters and being able to tilt the head on your gives you lots of options with the stock cutters. I've been using all kinds of moulder heads for years. Nothing intimidating about them at all.

[Josiah Bartlett]

Can you imagine standing the work on edge to pass it over a TS while taking out a 3/4" profile? Or trying to bump the TS fence back and forth to get that perfect fit?

They work ok if you make a tall fence extension and a zero clearance insert, and use a good set of feather boards. They aren't any more dangerous than a shaper with an insert head, although if a blade let loose it would be more likely to stick itself between your eyes on a table saw whereas with a shaper it would hit your guts or your junk. At least with the table saw you can stand off to the side.

[Jason Strauss]

I have the LRH Magic Molder. I bought it to do beaded panels for kitchen cabinets - couldn't come up with any other way.

Let me tell you, that thing works great! I had some concerns because it's so heavy - seems heavier than a full dado set with all the chippers. However, it's exceptionally well balanced and cuts like a dream. I've been using it on hickory...no tearout or stringiness.

I found it on Amazon. For about $180 (with shipping) you get the molder head and one set of carbide profiles - I think there's a least 100 types of profiles.

Spendy, but worth it to me.

[Vince Shriver]

Paul, could I see the business end of your indexing jig?
Thx, Joe

I'm with Joe on this one. Your jig is very clever - could you show us the rest of it?

[Peter Quinn]

They work ok if you make a tall fence extension and a zero clearance insert, and use a good set of feather boards. They aren't any more dangerous than a shaper with an insert head, although if a blade let loose it would be more likely to stick itself between your eyes on a table saw whereas with a shaper it would hit your guts or your junk. At least with the table saw you can stand off to the side.

Ouch! I don't want HSS stuck in my junk! I use insert heads on the shaper and the knives are quite secure, I'm sure the molding heads for the TS are secure as well, I'm more concerned about the stock orientation. My shaper spindles go up and down very precisely, so matching a cope and stick is pretty quick and simple. And my fences are micro adjustable, so setting the depth of cut and taking a jointing pass is pretty simple too. Plus there is a 150# 1HP feeder between my Junk and my knives, so if one goes rogue, it has to work hard to reach me. And then there is that 75# iron hood and fence assembly that covers 70% of the cutters arc and conveniently aids greatly in chip extraction. And the stock sits flat on the table relative to the cutter which is an obvious advantage.

Most TS's don't raise and lower the blade in any precise manner in terms of the thousands of an inch needed to set up a cope and stick set, and neither do the fences. They are simply not precision instruments in the way a shaper or even router in a lift is. I'm not saying it can't be done, obviously you have done it, but it strikes me as an exercise in frustration, and GOD help you if you have to make a few more parts and get the precise set up back again. And then there is the cope cut. I don't even want to think about that set up.

[Joe Jensen]

My dad used a Sears one years ago when we built new cabinets for the kitchen. We used it to cut the cope and stick for the doors. Worked ok, but keeping the feed rate consistent to avoid burning the wood was a real bear. Also, the first time you fire it up, watch out for the noise. It's like a very loud fan.

[Josiah Bartlett]

Ouch! I don't want HSS stuck in my junk! I use insert heads on the shaper and the knives are quite secure, I'm sure the molding heads for the TS are secure as well, I'm more concerned about the stock orientation. My shaper spindles go up and down very precisely, so matching a cope and stick is pretty quick and simple. And my fences are micro adjustable, so setting the depth of cut and taking a jointing pass is pretty simple too. Plus there is a 150# 1HP feeder between my Junk and my knives, so if one goes rogue, it has to work hard to reach me. And then there is that 75# iron hood and fence assembly that covers 70% of the cutters arc and conveniently aids greatly in chip extraction. And the stock sits flat on the table relative to the cutter which is an obvious advantage.

Most TS's don't raise and lower the blade in any precise manner in terms of the thousands of an inch needed to set up a cope and stick set, and neither do the fences. They are simply not precision instruments in the way a shaper or even router in a lift is. I'm not saying it can't be done, obviously you have done it, but it strikes me as an exercise in frustration, and GOD help you if you have to make a few more parts and get the precise set up back again. And then there is the cope cut. I don't even want to think about that set up.

You are right about the cope cut, it would be pretty difficult to line that up, but for a profile that doesn't need the precision it should be ok.

I have a shaper too but no power feeder. I wouldn't bother to try cope and stick on the table saw, but I've run some other profiles like window screen molding and beading with the table saw molding head, and once you get over the sideways thinking you have to do to get it set up it really isn't as bad as it looks.

It certainly isn't for a production shop, but for a home hobbyist trying to do work that otherwise would require a molder or a shaper with a long spindle, it gets the job done.

[Rod Sheridan]

Ouch! I don't want HSS stuck in my junk! I use insert heads on the shaper and the knives are quite secure, I'm sure the molding heads for the TS are secure as well, I'm more concerned about the stock orientation. My shaper spindles go up and down very precisely, so matching a cope and stick is pretty quick and simple. And my fences are micro adjustable, so setting the depth of cut and taking a jointing pass is pretty simple too. Plus there is a 150# 1HP feeder between my Junk and my knives, so if one goes rogue, it has to work hard to reach me. And then there is that 75# iron hood and fence assembly that covers 70% of the cutters arc and conveniently aids greatly in chip extraction. And the stock sits flat on the table relative to the cutter which is an obvious advantage.

Most TS's don't raise and lower the blade in any precise manner in terms of the thousands of an inch needed to set up a cope and stick set, and neither do the fences. They are simply not precision instruments in the way a shaper or even router in a lift is. I'm not saying it can't be done, obviously you have done it, but it strikes me as an exercise in frustration, and GOD help you if you have to make a few more parts and get the precise set up back again. And then there is the cope cut. I don't even want to think about that set up.

Having gone from the Sears set in a tablesaw to an insert head in a shaper, I agree completly with every thing Peter has said, especially the feeder.

There have been comments about how long it takes to set up a feeder, yet mine is done in maybe 20 to 30 seconds

- swing feeder into position and lock

- adjust elevation

- adjust angle

run.

A feeder keeps the work under control, produces a superior cut and saves your fingers. Plus I've better things to do with myself than be a traction device.

Regards, Rod.

[Michael Prisbylla]

I have an older delta head that I've used on my Dewalt RAS. I think that the RAS is a prefered method of swinging a molding head because of the ability to position the head in so many different ways. And to echo those before me, featherboards are a must.

[Paul Steiner]

+1 on the craftsman cutters. I was surprised by how well they cut. A good feather board or some type of hold down is absolutely necessary.

[Michael Weber]

First time you turn on your table saw with one of those old moulder heads in it, it's going to scare the bejeebers out of you. I know it did me. :eek: