Borg Plywood?

[Vic Barton]

I’m in the process of building some shop cabinets and I was at my local HD and they had some Colombia “Made in America Classic Birch” plywood. It looked alright, but does anyone have any experience with it? They wanted $36 a sheet for ¾”.

[Josh Reet]

I asked a similar question not long ago. The general opinion on BORG ply seems to be "Okay for shop cabinets, though you may have to deal with voids and/or twisting. Might work for paint grade 'indoor' cabinets if you are willing to work around the trouble spots".

Most will poo-poo the stuff, and probably for good reason. But a number of folks on a budget have gotten by just fine with BORG ply for various "function not form" projects.

[Carroll Courtney]

Don't care for it.:mad:Purchase acouple of sheets on Monday and while cutting it to size found that the edges splinter like crazy and cutting dado's and rabbets,chucks of the inner veneer sheets would chip out.The outer veneer was sanded so thin you could almost see the inner layers.No! the blade and router bits are not dull.I know its 35.00 a sheet,but 35.00 yr or so ago would buy 3/4 birch plywood w/poplar 1/8 layers. HD has the better birch that they are charging 54.00 a sheet,trying to convenience or steer a buyer to the cheaper plywood where the profit is greater.It work once,but it won't work again----Carroll

[glenn bradley]

Shop grade ply at your lumber yard isn't much more . . .

[Tony Bilello]

Lumber and plywood in Home Depot is pure crap and that's all there is to it. Home Depot is the only place I have ever seen warped MDF. I can get shop grade plywood from a reputable dealer for less and get a better product.
Do I sound opinionated?

[Brett Robson]

I too have had trouble with the birch ply from HD. It never fails, that even the 3/4" stuff warps and twists badly after I start cutting it. As mentioned previously, the veneer is absolutely paper-thin. I'm amazed that the technology even exists to cut the nearly transparent veneers that it's built with. I've noted it seems to have some kind of sour smell when cut too. In Makes me wonder if some toxic chemical is beign released in my shop. (This may be confined to the Chinese made stuff, as opposed to the US ply you're asking about)

In saying that, I have had much better luck with the birch ply from Lowes. It's actually a full 3/4" thick, has a veneer that you can sand a little and sofar has not warped/twisted/cupped like the HD stuff. Around here I buy it for about $40 a sheet.

[Dick Strauss]

Vic,
I'd take a chance on it for that price. Hopefully it is better than the cheap chinese stuff many of the big boxes sell. If you aren't happy with it once you cut it, bring it back and ask for a refund.

[Peter Quinn]

You are rolling the dice with Borg plywood regardless of country of origin, and the odds are not in your favor. Does it have an ANSI grade stamp or is it some ungraded way for Columbia to ditch their seconds? If the work is secondary or utility grade, at that price it might work for you, but go into it with your eyes open. It might make sense to buy a sheet or two and start fabricating to see how it behaves before committing the whole job to it?

And regardless of the quality of the plywood, the quality of the storage goes a long way toward getting the product to you in reasonably usable condition. I work for a millwork shop that sells cabinet grade hardwood plywood to the public, and they take great care of those precious sheets. You buy a sheet, they pull it and put it in your truck, no monkeys rifling through the stacks. There is always a sacrificial top sheet to keep things flat and clean. They are top quality products, and if there is a problem (it happens) they are fairly responsive to solving it by going back to the supplier and or manufacturer. They can order pretty much any species in any grade you should require.

At the Borg near me, I have seen lifts of their cabinet grade plywood stored OUTSIDE under a shed roof like framing lumber, then brought in and heaved via fork lift onto the UNLEVELED shelving system when needed, after which every angry contractor and would be DIY monkey in town tears through them like they were picking through discount bananas at the grocery. There are NO grading stamps from ANY acknowledged grading organization, though there are often voids, scars from rough treatment, and more than occasionally foot prints filled with ground in rocks. I have used them in a pinch or for work whose budget specified "Cheapest crap I could find". And if there is a problem, they will probably offer you another sheet of the same junk that has annoyed you in the first place. My local borg now sells the Columbia in ungraded sheets, though it seems to be marked with some low VOC green manufacturers stamp. It has voids, de-laminated face veneers, patches that telegraph through the face, banged up edges that splinter when cut. Cheap? Yes, all that and less.

[Dick Strauss]

Peter,
I stand corrected...I had hoped that since it was US Columbia plywood, it would be better than the typical import stuff. But, it sounds like your experiences don't agree with my assumption. Thanks for the warning!

[Bill Arnold]

I've used Sandee Ply from HD for years to make shop cabinets and drawers and have never had a problem with it. I've also used it for other utility type applications. I like it because it's generally very clear although a little soft. Many times, I'll spray a few light coats of Sealcoat on it before cutting it.

The birch and oak ply I've gotten at the borgs leave a bit to be desired but I've used them in a pinch. Fortunately, there's another supplier in this area that keeps a decent birch plywood in stock.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I agree with most everyone. It's useable, but for a few bucks more you can get better. You may want to think of getting the cheaper grade and spend some time sanding and painting. I also sanded through the veneer with a HAND sanding pad..... You pay for what you get. If you want to save those few dollars, it's okay stuff to use. I use it because I can save those precious few dollars, and I'm in the practice mode. I face frame anyways, so nothing critical shows. IF I were making a real cabinet, I'd for sure go for the better stuff.

Our local BORG does not store stuff outside (that I can see), so it's fairly straight. If it's outside, I'd pass.

[Josh Reet]

One thing that people always seem to forget in these conversations is that not everyone has a good lumber yard or wood supplier in their area. The BORGs may be the only option within decent driving distance. And then there are those who don't have a reasonable priced lumber option. It's great to hear that Joe Smith can get birch ply from his local guy for $5 more a sheet than HD or Lowes charges, but not everybody is that lucky.

That having been said, the folks on this thread ARE correct. My local lumber place has shop grade birch for $39 and it's nicer than the BORG stuff for just a few bucks more.

[Dave Lehnert]

I purchased some ply at Home Depot for a cabinet project a few weeks ago and it was some of the best I have ever used. You never know.

The problem with ply from over seas when they make the core it is stored out doors in the rain and weather. It is then moved indoors for the face to be glued on. When it is shipped, it begins to dry then the problems start.

[Paul Ryan]

Not sure where you are located. But if you have a Menards around the USA made plywood they have is decent stuff. Equal to my local yards and about 30% less money. Menards sells USA stuff that is stamped and clearly marked what grade it is. In the same area they also have the exceptional chiness stuff that I wouldn't use for my worst enemy. That is usually about $5 a sheet less. The problem with the Menards is you get every Tom, Dick, and Harry that pick through and dont watch what they are doing to the other sheets. The top few sheets are usually beat up due to this phenomenon. But if you get to the middle of the stack it is usually nice clean plywood, that is solid and stabil.

[kevin a jones]

I've also had good luck with 3/4" Birch from Menards. It's the made in the USA stuff and is listed as B2 grade with thick face vaneer. I do find myself riffling through the pile for just the right sheets though, because of the problem mentioned above.

[Thomas S Stockton]

I find this conversation interesting and am one that thinks it is not a good idea to buy plywood at Homedepot but if I went to my local hardwood dealer looking for shop birch I would probably be buying a Columbia product, so why not get it where it is cheapest.
To the poster who said it might be a second, it probably is that's what shop grade plywood is. Their are two ways factories create shop grade ply one is falldowns which are a higher grade panel that has a defect or by definition a second. The other way is what is called manufactured shop which may or may not be graded, if it is it would be a c-3 or c-4 panel and not technically shop grade but brought in by the dealer to fill that niche.
If your looking for a ANSI stamp on shop grade your not going to find it since shop is not a standard grade.
So I would look at the product and if it seems in good shape and the top panel is flat, why not give it a shot considering what you plan on using it for.
Tom

[James Carmichael]

[QUOTE=Brett Robson;1236813] It's actually a full 3/4" thick[QUOTE]

Sorry, but that's something I'd have to see to believe. "3/4" plywood is getting progressively thinner. Most of what's sold as 3/4" nowadays (especially birch) is 18mm imported stuff. I would be surprised if the veneers really were birch.

[Lee Schierer]

I bought some "birch baltic" type plywood from HD a few years ago. It was flat, had a few minor voids and even the leftovers have remained flat after several years in my shop. I have no idea what country it came from. Give a look at other local lumber yards and see what their prices are and where they got their stock from, then decide. For what I used it for it worked great and I have no complaints, though I normally buy all my hardwood elsewhere and get better prices and quality than HD.

[Peter Quinn]

Peter,
I stand corrected...I had hoped that since it was US Columbia plywood, it would be better than the typical import stuff. But, it sounds like your experiences don't agree with my assumption. Thanks for the warning!

Dick, I believe it is in fact better than the Chinese stuff, but it is not as good as even real C-2 paint grade material I see at work. At least the laminations are not rolled into each other, its not shipped wet, and generally contains no bits of metal on a regular basis. I didn't mean to put you off of it completely, just be aware of what it is. It may prove useful to you in some circumstances, but is not my first choice of product if the budget allows otherwise or the work calls for the highest grade of material.

In fairness I also can't claim that every Borg handles their material in the same rough manner that my local store does, though I suspect the abuse from the general public is likely a chain wide phenomenon. I am certain that at least some significant percentage of the problems I see with the Columbia product in my local Borg is related to its storage and handling (or mishandling).

[Peter Quinn]

I find this conversation interesting and am one that thinks it is not a good idea to buy plywood at Homedepot but if I went to my local hardwood dealer looking for shop birch I would probably be buying a Columbia product, so why not get it where it is cheapest.
To the poster who said it might be a second, it probably is that's what shop grade plywood is.

If your looking for a ANSI stamp on shop grade your not going to find it since shop is not a standard grade.
So I would look at the product and if it seems in good shape and the top panel is flat, why not give it a shot considering what you plan on using it for.
Tom

I am the poster that spoke of seconds Thomas, and oddly I think we are both making the same point. Problem is on the shelf at my local Borg, it doesn't say "SHOP GRADE PLYWOOD" on the tag, it says "CABINET GRADE HARDWOOD PLYWOOD". And yet it is clearly an ungraded utility product. So the unwary buys it and thinks its as good as it gets? I asked the OP if he saw a grading stamp because I already new the answer and wondered if he did or had considered what that meant. Perhaps a slightly higher grade might serve his purpose better, perhaps not? My shop cabs are made from scraps, junk, T111, CDX, anything I could get my hands on for free. Some are Frankencabs made from several different low grades of scrap spliced together. Ever seen a box made with CD sheathing with a pattern grade SA mahogany face frame? Its a nice look!:D

Further, in this business, or hobby, it doesn't hurt to build relationships with a GOOD supplier. I'd be surprised if you save much money on shop grade at the Borg versus a lumber yard, but you won't stand much chance of learning anything about wood there or finding anything truly rewarding in the stacks of lumber. Heck, I'd pay a few bucks more per sheet for the same stuff just for the increase in conversation quality at my local lumber yard versus the borg.

[Jay Brewer]

Further, in this business, or hobby, it doesn't hurt to build relationships with a GOOD supplier. I'd be surprised if you save much money on shop grade at the Borg versus a lumber yard, but you won't stand much chance of learning anything about wood there or finding anything truly rewarding in the stacks of lumber. Heck, I'd pay a few bucks more per sheet for the same stuff just for the increase in conversation quality at my local lumber yard versus the borg.

Peter is right on. Building a relationship with a quality supplier is one of the best things I have done. I will pay a couple more dollars a sheet ( even though I dont ) to not have to walk all over the store looking for someone to help me load it on the cart and again on my truck.

I dont find myself in the Borgs much anymore. The quality of almost everthing in there has dropped considerably while the prices keep going up. Did I mention trying to find someone to help????

[Thomas S Stockton]

If home depot is selling it as "cabinet Grade hardwood plywood" that is wrong. I buy all my plywood except for construction stuff from hardwood dealers so I rarely look at the stuff when at Homedepot.
People really need to educate themselves about how lumber and plywood is graded. You really don't need to know all the minutia but a basic grasp of grades is really helpful so you know what you are getting.
The main reason I would recommend purchasing this particular ply is that it is an american made product and Columbia generally produces a good product. The other reason is that it seems like a lot of guys who are doing this for fun just can't get the time away from work to get down to the hardwood dealer and about the worse time to show up is around lunch so if they are carrying a good product get it there.
One of the other problems I've seen (and it is rare) is that some dealers really stick it to the hobbiest and jack the price way up.
Peter I make furniture for a living, my shop cabinets are like yours cheap ply and drawers I pulled out of a dumpster, I don't have the time to waste making my shop cabinets look like they belong in my house and after a while i might rearrange things and it is a lot easier to toss something that is quick and dirty than a cabinet I spent to much time on. Yes you should build a relationship with a couple of good dealers but sometimes it just isn't possible
Tom

[david kramer]

Most 2x4s at HD look like the twigs they're cut from. But last year I found a dry, dead straight, quarter sawn 2x4x8 with 22 visible growth rings. It was something like $1. I guess it fell onto the truck :). I was so flabbergasted I stood there for five minutes admiring it. I think I still have it in the 2x4 hall of fame in my garage.

This is all my way of saying, look at the plywood, maybe it's decent. If not, move on. Personally, I'm _so_ over HD plywood. I don't think I'll ever buy another sheet there.

But