Mitering Countertops

[Paul Simmel]

Hello all.

I have solid maple counters to be installed fairly soon. (1.5" thick x 25" deep).

My plan for making these rather important cuts is to "rough out" with a circular saw/straight edge first, then trim the ends to "perfection" with a straight edge and a solid spiral carbide bit with router. (I'm not buying a Festool for this one cut)

Anyone have thoughts on this?

Thanks

PS- I briefly considered numerous pocket screws for joining, but am slanting toward the tried and true "draw-bolt" method. The "L" will be 6' x 6.5', and will have to be carried from the shop to the kitchen. With a pocket hole every inch or so be strong enough???

Thanks again!

Edit: When I say "trim the ends) I meant re-cut the roughed 45's.

[Dino Makropoulos]

Paul,
Instead of butting the miters, why not a lap joint
If that don't work, you can always go back into plan#1.
With solid tops, why not make an interesting lap joint with
square dovetailed look?

Just a thought to go with the first cup of coffee.
Good to spread ideas to get others in "trouble"
ans later see a nice picture of the ""....coffee idea:rolleyes::D

g.luck.

[Homer Faucett]

I personally don't see the need to use the router to trim the miters. If you have a Freud Diablo blade (about $15-$19), and you set your edge guide to a true 45, there should not be a reason to go back and trim with a router. Some blue tape along the cut line will add protection from chipping.

You could probably get away with the long pocket screws and glue, but you would need some way to clamp the pieces together while you were driving the screws (maybe add a clamp block to the bottom with some brads, and remove after the screws are driven). I'd probably go with the draw bolts in this situation, as it eliminates steps, and the clamps (bolts) stay in place.

[Robert Reece]

The "L" will be 6' x 6.5', and will have to be carried from the shop to the kitchen. With a pocket hole every inch or so be strong enough???



I'd think pocket screws would be strong enough.
You could put a 1x4 to form the hypotenuse of your L shape while carrying it into the kitchen. That would eliminate some stress on that joint.
Or why not just pocket screw it together in the kitchen?

[Tony Bilello]

Hello all.

I have solid maple counters to be installed fairly soon. (1.5" thick x 25" deep).
PS- ............... but am slanting toward the tried and true "draw-bolt" method. YES!!!! Tony B The "L" will be 6' x 6.5', and will have to be carried from the shop to the kitchen.
With a pocket hole every inch or so be strong enough??? Probably not. Thats a lot of stress when carrying from room to room. Tony B
.

The pocket screws might work, but we know the draw-bolts will.

Tony B

[Paul Simmel]

Thanks every one. Time is of the essence, so detailed work is out on this one. I may inlay some "bow tie" keys later.

Re the dado blade... I'm not feeling too comfortable with that as a cutting blade for one-and-a-half-inch stock.

I'm strongly leaning on the draw-bolt... yet pocket screws might be a fairly good way to secure the two pieces in place prior to the routing/bolt step.

The layout will not allow me to PScrew from under due to cabinet location. This will have to be done prior to installation.

Again, thanks for the thoughts and advice.

Edit... DIABLO... SORRY... I use them and like them very much. We will see how it goes. I'l make my initial cut with a Diablo.

_P

[Steve Clardy]

Make your 45 degree cuts from the bottom side. No chipout.

Plenty of pocket screws and glue will work. Just have plenty of help carrying it in so the joint won't stress.

I despise draw bolts. :eek::eek::D

[Jamie Buxton]

Before you cut your 45s, you might double-check that the cabinets form a 90 degree corner. DAMHIKT.

[Paul Simmel]

I was going to take a general assessment as to where I stand in terms of the 90 degree by leaving the counters a bit long...cut a TEMPLATE to 45-degree, make my adjustments (on the template) as close as I can get... make the FIRST cut on one counter, and then lay the second half (counter) itself into place over the first cut and trace the a line (from the first cut) onto the second piece as a reference.................. cut that line............. rout both cuts "perfectly" straight with the 1.5" deep spiral bit with a "perfect" straight-edge and thus create more "perfect" edge..............then join.

Please note: I want this edge to be PERFECT, and I know I can do this so-long as my straight edge is perfect. That spiral bit will do it... I've done it before using templates for curved patterns... etc.

(My circular hand saw is a damned good on... a Dewalt which has served me very well for many years, and I will try the DIABLO blade for the initial cuts.

I don't own a Jack Plane... unfortunately! I've been looking, but it ain't here right now.

Seriously, my router/spiral final cut may be Over-kill", but my plan will yield a perfect cut in the end... and that's what I want... a perfect cut.

I'm still open. It will be about a week from now when I do this.

Thanks.

_P

[Paul Simmel]

Blah... just to subscribe...

[phil harold]

Solid wood counter top needs to be butt jointed

The movement of the wood will cause opening of the joints

If you fasten them with bolts (dog bones) the tops will split

2' wide miter is going to move...

Let me say this again "Butt Joint"

[Walter Plummer]

+1 with Phil on the butt joint. Also I would advise a spline for alignment.

[Barry Vabeach]

+1 with Walter on the spline. I have used draw bolts in putting together a few coutertops, and without a spline you can get some variation which looks, and feels horrible.

[Peter Quinn]

I have done at least a half dozen of these at work at this point, most thicker than yours, some as thick as 3 1/2". We jack miter the intersections (ie BUTT JOINT with panache), always include a good spline or two, and pull in the butt joint with dog bones. The dog bones (draw bolts, counter top bolts, whatever you would like to call them) allow the wood to move but keep things closed up, the splines maintain the alignment.

You will probably have to sand that joint flush in place before final assembly, remember to finish the bottom at least once BEFORE installation, and good luck.

As to the skill saw/router with a spiral technique, sounds good to me, but I would stay away from a 30+" long miter in maple personally. Also remember that only the leading edge of the inside corner and the top will ever be visible, so it might be better to back bevel the bottom 1" right close the the inside intersection and all the way back to avoid the joint not closing up

[Dino Makropoulos]

Please note: I want this edge to be PERFECT, and I know I can do this so-long as my straight edge is perfect. That spiral bit will do it... I've done it before using templates for curved patterns... etc.
--------
I'm still open. It will be about a week from now when I do this.

Thanks.

_P

The only PERFECT edges that i know of, come from planers.
A shooting board.
An ancient tool that if used right, there is no blade or bit capable of delivering the same level of perfection.

Do you have a hand held power planer?
Guided and you'll be surprised.:cool:

[Larry Edgerton]

I'm with the camp that does not approve of a miter. If you get it secured good enough at the joint it will pull the countertop at the backsplash on each end. I refuse to do them after problems with one. If they want butcher block tops they will be butt joints.

[Paul Simmel]

I have done at least a half dozen of these at work at this point, most thicker than yours, some as thick as 3 1/2". We jack miter the intersections (ie BUTT JOINT with panache), always include a good spline or two, and pull in the butt joint with dog bones. The dog bones (draw bolts, counter top bolts, whatever you would like to call them) allow the wood to move but keep things closed up, the splines maintain the alignment.



Peter, I am really digging this. If you don;t mind, could you detail a bit? How far from the inside corner (panache)... (up with the 45) before you turn right for the main 90?

2" ... 3"?

[Paul Simmel]

A Jack Miter with spines it looks like it will be, based on the advice presented here. My Maple tops are top quality, and I do not want to take any chances. My many thanks.

Personally. I feel the Miter would work. The movement would be uniform on both tops, and I anticipated movement. The movement would be in accordance with it's mated piece.... so goes my thinking/experience.

But the LOOK of a JACK Miter along with a bUTT end will work very well for me. I can make templates for my spiral bit... with sawing/chiseling etc.

Thanks every one... great points.

Have decided this is the route I am going to go (Jack Miter).

Thanks so very much.

Going to position the draw bolts accordingly to allow for movement.

-=-=-=-=-

If you are lucky. I will post pic,s of the cabinets themselves.

Slow process... little at a tiime.

-=-=-=-

Thanks again,

_P