rotary axis

[james mcgrew]

with the possible and existing release of rotary axis toolpathing i am wanting to learn how the fellows who have them use them.

this will help many of us who are new to this proceed with new rotarys whether we build them or buy them

i have attached a diagram of what i know so far, photos will be truley appreciated i want to also find out how many of us have them and who may eventually get one

1) Machine
2) Control Software
3) Alignment of rotary axis (along X or along Y)
4) Letter used to identify rotary axis ( A/ B / ?)
5) Maximum length of material which can be machined
6) Maximum diameter of material which can be machined

jim

maybe just maybe eventually i will learn to spell!!

[Kenneth Hertzog]

Jim

For my Sherline Milling Machine I have a CNC rotary axis
It can mount on either axis ( X or Y )
I use it on the X axis
For my software it is A axis ( flashcut )
I can mount 15 inch long items between centers
Max Dia. is probably 6 inch in the vertical position
probably 12 in the vertical
the x axis table is 18 inch +
and the Y axis is 9 inch

ken

Also have a manual one for the other milling machine
both of them are sherline rotary tables

[james mcgrew]

thanks ken!!

[james mcgrew]

i have completed the hardware and ran my first files

i have a lot to learn!!!!

first files ran great

jim

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giYiUTpm_LE

[Joey Jarrard]

Great Job keep it turnning and have fun.

[Bob Savage]

That is awesome!! I haven't been following along. Did you buy the rotary, or build it?

By the way, love the heart covered chip bag.

HAHAHA... I haven't cut a single part, don't even have a machine yet, but I want a rotary! :)

[james mcgrew]

all of the parts were camaster, i butchered the end stock parts and built a larger rail system, i have a bunch of drives and parts from all the reworking i have done on the routers over the last two years, joey, paul and i are working on solving the hardware issue so they can be used on virtually any machine top, side, under :p (just kidding) my wife saw the video and pointed at the columns in front of the house so here we go!!

with a lathe of any length one could stack parts to obtain any height

jim

[james mcgrew]

i will say this to those who are considering this, there are software innovations in process that will de mystify this for the rest of us who do not have the luxury of expensive software. at this time programs like vectric, wrapper and indexer by rich are bringing this closer by the minute, as well there are forum members who are much better versed in simple code alterations that will produce this type of work, vectric has announced they will eventually provide rotary toolpathing and for this i will wait!!

jim

[Bob Savage]

LOL! I have no experience and no machine, and my wife's already point around the house too.

I think I'm going to get a machine and figure out vcarving before I move to wanting a rotary. ;)

[james mcgrew]

if you can get a few extra inches of gantry, it makes the lathe a lot easier later on!!

[Bob Savage]

if you can get a few extra inches of gantry, it makes the lathe a lot easier later on!!

Thanks for the tip!

[Bob Savage]

if you can get a few extra inches of gantry, it makes the lathe a lot easier later on!!

So, not only is Joey quick with e-mail replies on a Saturday morning, but CAMaster is thinking ahead and already building the machines with this in mind. Gotta love foreward thinking...

[Robert Alexander]

I can see lots of different applications with that rotary with metal work.

[Guy Mathews]

1) Machine I have 3 with 4th axis. Kitako 10 spindle, CAMaster 510 ATC and ShopBot PRS Alpha
2) Control Software In order, Fanuc 10 series, WinCnc and ShopBot
3) Alignment of rotary axis (along X or along Y) In order, X, X, X and Y for the ShopBot
4) Letter used to identify rotary axis ( A/ B / ?) A
5) Maximum length of material which can be machined In order, 50 Inches, 101 inches, 86 and 32 inches.
6) Maximum diameter of material which can be machined In order, 16 inches, 12 inches and 8 inches.

This was the first project I made with the CAMaster Lathe shortly after getting it home and setup. This does not include the test cut that I have on the Youtube Video. It is probably number 1,000~something for me as far as 4th axis projects go. Notice that the tapered post are left and right twist. The g-code for this type of project can be generated by making a 3D model and carving it using a 1/2 inch ball mill or simply by using a text editor and side cutting them using a 1/2 inch end mill. It depends on your level of experience and knowledge. Basically, nothing is impossible but there are limits.

Guy

[George Brown]

Guy, nice design, like the slow long spirals.

Question, how did you set up the machine to cut the angles on the top and side of the head board? I assume it was on the cnc.

[Guy Mathews]

Guy, nice design, like the slow long spirals.

Question, how did you set up the machine to cut the angles on the top and side of the head board? I assume it was on the cnc.

George,

Thanks. The design is not mine however. It is from the customer we made the bed for. They either send us a photo, a drawing, a plan or a sample, and we make it for them.

As for the CNC work, the top can be done a few ways. This particular top was done on the band saw.

To do the top with a CNC you would have to create a model of the top, either 3D or simple curves and position the piece to be cut at an angle on your machine for 3 axis or index it to the angle on 4th axis. Then I would use a large rabbeting bit to follow the Z curve. It can be done in several passes with the curve being offset to accommodate the widest point of the design.

You could also make the 3D model and mill that portion using a ball mill. Problem with that is the machine runs too long.

It's all about cycle time and payroll!

Guy

[George Brown]

As for the CNC work, the top can be done a few ways.

Thanks.

Probably easier to just do it on the band saw.

Hard to see the angle from the photo, but what if you laid it flat on the table and used a, say 120 degree v-bit. Would that work?

[Guy Mathews]

Thanks.

Probably easier to just do it on the band saw.

Hard to see the angle from the photo, but what if you laid it flat on the table and used a, say 120 degree v-bit. Would that work?


Yes if the bit were large enough to encompass the widest point. If not, you can offset multiple lines and adjust depths accordingly to get the desired end result with a V-bit. I also have some pretty large custom cove bits that will do the same thing in one or two passes.

Like I said earlier, for this one we used the band saw. It was faster and easier to have an experienced cutter make one. In a production run, I would use the CNC because the cut would be cleaner and require less finish time. Plus, I can put an entry level employee on the CNC switching parts and have the experienced cutter making something else.

It all comes back to cycle time and payroll!!!!!:D

Guy

[Joey Jarrard]

Great job Guy

[Guy Mathews]

Thanks Joey,

You should recognize the bed post. These were the ones that you have the photo of in the newsletter. They were also the main reason we got the recoil lathe from you. Remember, I quoted that job knowing that machine was coming. That job paid for the lathe man!!!!

Guy

[james mcgrew]

getting a bit closer

[Joey Jarrard]

Jim!!!!!!!!!! man o man I should have set you up with the Recoil in the first place. Great work ;)

[Guy Mathews]

getting a bit closer

I'd say "You got it!" At this point it just looks like you need to go to some smaller bits and tighter stepovers.

Great job!

[james mcgrew]

this was done with a 1/16th taper bn at 10%

i think the only way to get tighter is to detail the file a bit more?

jim

[james mcgrew]

inch by inch

jm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uigIWptYOpQ

[Guy Mathews]

Looks good Jim.

I will say that I am a little disappointed to see a belt drive on your rotary. I guarantee that the belt is under different forces then the gantry and router carriage belts.

I was under the impression that CAMaster had taken my lead and was now installing gear drives on there new lathes.

Just remember, when the belt breaks there is nothing to stop the stock from free-spinning from the cutter until you get the machine shut down. In that time there is the possibilty of the stock being ripped from the center points and damaging machine or people.

I have had my "depends moments" with the belt drive and you will never find one on any of my 4th axis setups ever again.

You can read more about it here if you scroll down the page.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=103562&page=2

There is not a company in the world that can convince me that the belt drive on this type of application is safe.

A gear drive like I am running on my CAMaster or a planetary setup that goes right on the stepper is the only safe way to go as far as I am concerned.

Guy

[james mcgrew]

this lathe was a rollover from one of the used machines i purchased, actually i have two, and where i will end up is still yet to be seen but so far it is the path, to presume camaster had anything other than thier usual and excellent support for my efforts is mispoke:p

[james mcgrew]

video of full round

this is my second file

jim

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8QlyC9-oyA

[Nicholas Bukky]

That Looks great Jim!
It looks like you got it to all line up. I could not tell where it started and stoped!

Nick

[james mcgrew]

it will not take long to learn some really good techniques some are beggining to evolve on vectrics forum

[Guy Mathews]

video of full round

this is my second file

jim

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8QlyC9-oyA

Where is the video that shows the detail work being done?

[james mcgrew]

i let it run and do not have a vid of this one, today i may do it in larger scale and will video it

the file was actally longer and i stopped and cut it

[Robert Alexander]

it will not take long to learn some really good techniques some are beggining to evolve on vectrics forum


James, that is some really neat 4th axis work. How long have you been working with the Aspire software to get where you are today? Its too bad you are on the other side of the U.S.:( I sure would like to see your shop:).

[Bob Savage]

James, that is some really neat 4th axis work. How long have you been working with the Aspire software to get where you are today? Its too bad you are on the other side of the U.S.:( I sure would like to see your shop:).

Robert,

Where are you located?

[james mcgrew]

using aspire is bolsterd by its users forum and one can learn it much quicker than i did, i got vcarvepro in dec 07 and aspire in oct 08, the 3d came to me much better when we did the chess players as at that time i did not know squat, guy mathews, joesph brucoli (www.bossrocker.com (http://www.bossrocker.com) ) and buddy easler a local shopbotter were my biggest help.

take on a project that seems impossible and just do it!! you will learn or else.

it is not smarter than you are, it just had the info sooner!!

we can do a crossloop session when you get ready and we will teach you, you are a CAMaster owner!!

jim

[Guy Mathews]

using aspire is bolsterd by its users forum and one can learn it much quicker than i did, i got vcarvepro in dec 07 and aspire in oct 08, the 3d came to me much better when we did the chess players as at that time i did not know squat, guy mathews, joesph brucoli (www.bossrocker.com (http://www.bossrocker.com) ) and buddy easler a local shopbotter were my biggest help.

take on a project that seems impossible and just do it!! you will learn or else.

it is not smarter than you are, it just had the info sooner!!

we can do a crossloop session when you get ready and we will teach you, you are a CAMaster owner!!

jim

Jim is being too modest. He knows more then he gives himself credit for.

What I highlighted in bold Jim speaks volumes, just take on the hardest thing you can and learn from that. You will have a very rewarding project when finished and all the others will be easier from that point on. Plus you will learn along the way.

Guy

[Robert Alexander]

Robert,

Where are you located?

I live about 750 miles to the north east of you in Farr West Utah. It is about 40 miles north of Salt Lake City.

[Robert Alexander]

we can do a crossloop session when you get ready and we will teach you, you are a CAMaster owner!!

jim


I look forward to the training CAMaster Jedi.

[Bob Savage]

I live about 750 miles to the north east of you in Farr West Utah. It is about 40 miles north of Salt Lake City.

Well, we won't be sipping beers together anytime soon then, will we!?! :)

[james mcgrew]

probably sooner than you think though!!

[Robert Alexander]

Well, we won't be sipping beers together anytime soon then, will we!?! :)
Maybe sugar free Root beer for me? Being diabetic for 40 plus years, I am careful what I eat and drink. I do hope that in the future there will be a Camaster get together, to share tips and stuff, like the Shopbotters do.

[james mcgrew]

no alcohol here either, i have the "allergy" every time i had a drink i bought a bar, owned 32 before i found out all i had to do was stop drinking!!

yes we just had a gathering in my shop and many of the camaster owners were here! we will do it again in the spring

jim

[Bob Savage]

Maybe sugar free Root beer for me? Being diabetic for 40 plus years, I am careful what I eat and drink. I do hope that in the future there will be a Camaster get together, to share tips and stuff, like the Shopbotters do.

Sure, I mean, it has the word "beer" in it so it's got to be good.

It would definitely be cool to have a get together someday. We should probably do it at my house. :D


no alcohol here either, i have the "allergy" every time i had a drink i bought a bar, owned 32 before i found out all i had to do was stop drinking!!


LOL!

[Joey Jarrard]

I look forward to the training CAMaster Jedi.

Give him a complex will ya! give him a big head we will all be calling him yoda!

[Joey Jarrard]

Speaking of Jedi check out what James L is doing out in TN. he makes the molds for the helmets and the guns are carved out of wood on a MC BTW that is Frank our tech in the mask

[Guy Mathews]

Give him a complex will ya! give him a big head we will all be calling him yoda!

When 900 years old are you, look you not as good as Jim. ehhh? :D

I'm going to hell for sure! LOL!

[james mcgrew]

ya'll are still nuts!!

[Bob Savage]

Speaking of Jedi check out what James L is doing out in TN. he makes the molds for the helmets and the guns are carved out of wood on a MC BTW that is Frank our tech in the mask

Very cool! The guns look awesome.

[Guy Mathews]

ya'll are still nuts!!

You and I are not nuts. We are the squirrels who gather the nuts!

[james mcgrew]

http://www.youtube.com/user/CAMasterCNC#p/a/u/0/QysP-ZCx9cE

[Bryan Cowan]

http://www.youtube.com/user/CAMasterCNC#p/a/u/0/QysP-ZCx9cE

Now that is awesome!

[Guy Mathews]

That is the kind of innovation that is going to put CAMaster miles ahead of the competition. Out-freaking-standing!!!!

One complaint though... What does that have to do with rotary axis?

Jim start a new thread for something like this can't ya?!?!?!?!