Green Woodworking

[Nathan Talbert]

I want to get into woodworking but I don't have alot of space or money to spend now. I've been looking at green woodworking as an option. Do you all think this would be a less expensive realm of woodworking to delve into? The tools needed to make chairs and stools seem to be few and relatively inexpensive: shave horse, draw knife, spoke shaves, seat planes, spring pole lathe (down the road), and probably a few more. Is anyone into this stuff? If so, how did you learn? Thanks.

[Chuck Nickerson]

Green woodworking, as normally practiced, can be less expensive to gear up. As for how to learn, there are four ways: classes, books, internet, and making mistakes. Which way to go depends on your budget and timeframe; the best classes fill up months in advance. A mixture of all four is the best way to learn. An instructor can straighten you out very quickly if you've got something wrong.

One potential problem depending on where you live: getting green wood. I live in Los Angeles, and getting green wood to work is a royal pain.

[Robert Rozaieski]

I don't want to discourage you, but it can be just as expensive as cabinetmaking. Just as with cabinetmaking, it depends mostly on how much work you want to do regarding tool restoration.

You can buy an inexpensive, vintage draw knife and do a lot of work to reshape the edge properly (like a knife, not like a plane iron) and sharpen it up, or you can spend a lot more money and get one ready to go out of the box with nothing but some minor honing. I chose the former for my own knife but it's a personal choice.

There are also several other tools for chairmaking that you are unlikely to find good vintage versions of in the wild. Some that come to mind are travishers, inshave/scorp (most in the wild have the wrong shape and cutting geometry for chair making), spoon bits and taper reamers. You can make a good travisher and reamer but spoon bits are expensive whether you buy new or old. You can use other bits like augers for some of the holes but for holes bored at very sharp angles to the surface of the wood (like the outside spindles in the bent back of a Windsor chair) you need a bit that can enter at right angles to start the hole and then change angles as it bores the rest of the way. Not too many bits besides a spoon bit can do this.

Then you still need saws, chisels and spokeshaves, maybe a froe and an adze and a hewing hatchet and some splitting wedges and a way to sharpen everything.

You need a way to generate steam to bend parts and a steam box. You can build the steam box but you still need a way to make steam. You can build a shave horse failry cheap and a pole lathe as well. But you still need lathe tools for turning.

If you are a bottom feeder and have the ability and desire to search for deals on old tools and put in the work to make them sing, I'd say you could get into chair making for a few hundred dollars. But I'd say you could get into cabinetmaking for the same. Again, it all depends on how much work you are willing to do tuning up old tools.

And just like the cheap new planes, chisels, saws, etc., the cheap new drawknives, inshaves, spokeshaves, froes, etc. are just as bad. Many can be made to work, but only with a lot of extra work, just like buying an old tool and tuning it up. For a truly ready to go out of the box tool, whether for chairmaking or cabinetmaking, you have to spend some money.

Now this isn't meant to discourage you from taking up chairmaking or cabinetmaking. As I said, you don't have to spend what I would consider a lot of money to get into either. You just have to be willing to tune up your own tools and not have the best of everything. I would say with a budget of $300-400, you could easily get started doing either. You won't be buying LV or LN tools, but you can still build stuff.

[Bob Glenn]

I bought Dunbar's Windsor chair book, read it cover to cover three times over a period of a couple years. The whole process seemed too daunting to under take, so I put off trying to make a chair for a number of years.

I had already collected a lot of the old tools, a draw knife, brace and bits, a few spoke shaves and some planes and a froe.

I decided to just try to carve a spindle out of a quarter sawn oak board that was fairly straight grained, clamped in the vise, using my draw knife and spoke shave. It didn't turn out very good, but I learned enough on that first spindle to try again. after about five, I had one that I was pretty proud of. Now I just had to make twelve more just like it. It took a long time and I developed things as I went that seemed to work for me. I had no shaving horse, or room for one, so I made a holding device out of a 1 x 6 that clamped in my vise and secured the spindle along the hollowed edge of the board. A piece of rope around the spindle tied to a foot treadle secured the spindle to the board while carving.

I didn't have a wood lathe, or room for one either, but I had a small metal lathe with an 18 inch bed, not long enough to turn legs. So I built an extension on the bed, bought a spur drive and mounted a piece of oak as a tool rest on the cross feed in a bench vise. I had to teach myself to turn the legs and found old turning tools in flea markets and antique shops. I made lots tinder to start fires, and lots and lots of fire wood with mistakes. Finally, as with the spindles, I had a double baluster leg that looked good, now just make three more to match. More fire wood.

Getting the wood is the hard part. I found a sawyer that would cut 2 inch poplar seat blanks for me, and I started following the tree trimmers around town begging for any straight piece of oak or maple they had laying around.

At the time, I thought the only way to make a chair was the way the book said, using the tools Dunbar recommended. So I ponied up about 385 dollars and bought Fred Emhoff's full set of spoon bits and his reamer. I have since found, as previously mentioned, just about any drill will do, except for the spindle holes on the bends of the top rail. I have been able to use twist drills to drill these holes by starting small and increasing the size of the drill bit incrementally. I have since made my own reamer using a tapered saw blade and tapered wood holder. Search "Green Woodworking" for plans on this reamer.

I spend some big bucks on a nice travisher and compass plane, but I started by modifying a cobbler's heel inshave. You have to cut the handles off to get it to work in the tight areas around the back of the seat. Imagine my surprise when I saw Curtis Buchanon had one just like when he was on Roy Underhill's show. I guess great minds work alike.

I built a steam box out of some 1x4's and 1x6's and used two coffee cans and double burner Coleman stove to make steam. Some old plywood and 1x12's became bending forms.

I took me eight months to make this first chair and I have made about ten since. I have developed lots of my own ways to do things out of necessity, when I didn't the tools, knowledge or skill to accomplish a given task.

My best advise, is to just get started. If you only have a drawn knife, carve spindles until you can get the tools to do something else. There lots of ways to make a windsor chair, and you will enjoy the adventure of discovery as you find your way along the path. Good luck!

[Chuck Nickerson]

Bob wrote the post I wish I'd written. If you've got one tool, get good at using it. There are projects you can do with very few tools.

[Jim Koepke]

One potential problem depending on where you live: getting green wood. I live in Los Angeles, and getting green wood to work is a royal pain.

Especially if the neighbors catch you trimming their trees. Of course, if you learn tree trimming, you can charge to gather wood.

My desire to have some lawn chairs got me started in woodworking. None of the plastic crud in the stores was what was wanted and everything else was too expensive.

Found a book in the local library with a working drawing and cut list to build an adirondack chair. Took to collecting pallets for wood. At the time all the woodworking tools in my garage consisted of a hand saw, a crow bar and a hammer.

After making a few from pallets and nails, my wife let me buy some cheap pine to make a few more. It has been a long slow journey, but the learning has been worth it.

One does not need a lot of tools to make useable furniture. With just a few tools, one can make some fine furniture to appreciate for years to come.

jim

[Dave Schwarzkopf]

Jim,

You couldn't be more right....in the correct hands, a few good tools can make masterpieces. A barely serviceable saw in skilled hands is likely to cut straighter than an Eccentric one custom fit to a newbie's hands.

But I feel it necessary to warn Nathan about the infamous 'slope'. Many start out with humble intentions and even humbler tools; before you know it your wife has joined an anti-Schwarz club and there's more invested in your tool arsenal than your house.

Gateway tools and projects have led to record numbers of handtool addictions. Boutique makers are springing up everywhere. It's an epidemic. My name is Dave, and I actually believe that the slope has a bottom, (or at least levels off a bit....I hope).

[Mark Stutz]

My name is Dave, and I actually believe that the slope has a bottom, (or at least levels off a bit....I hope).

We've all started out under this same delusion:D

[Nathan Talbert]

If I've learned anything thing from being a newbie and this whole "slippery slope" process it's that eventually you just have to just jump in with both feet and make something. You only need bare essential tools for that project at first. This will give you time to figure out what kind of work you'll enjoy. Even if you're limited on money and space (like me), you can still find a project that will fit you're budget, space, and time. You will get tired of everyone else posting gloats and project pictures and enjoying the craft while you're surfing the web all day. Sorry for the rant ya'll.

I'm going to make some mighty fine dovetail joint birdhouses using pallets from where I work using the few tools I have. You may think I'm crazy but that is what my money, space, and time dictates what I make at this point. Maybe that can be my lucrative business model. "Handmade Furniture From Recycled Pallet Woodworking Inc." :cool:

[Joshua Clark]

've been looking at green woodworking as an option... Is anyone into this stuff? If so, how did you learn? Thanks.

Nathan-

I'm interested in green woodworking as well. It can certainly be a less expensive hobby to start out in than traditional cabinetmaking or "fine" woodworking. The tools you'll need to get going are pretty simple- just a hewing hatchet, a froe, some splitting wedges, and a boring tool like a t-handle auger. With these tools you can make some simple things like a hewing bench and a shave horse. Once you have the shave horse you can get a drawknife and spokeshave and start making simple chairs and furniture. An adze, some chisels, and a brace and bit(s)would be a good additions at some point. The good thing is that all of these tools are very common and none are terribly expensive, especially if you aren't looking for tools in mint condition.

If you want some great inspriation you should take a look at Roy Underhill's books and videos. Visit your local library and check out any or all of his books. While you are there put in a inter-library request for the Woodwright's Shop videos. The entire first season is available on VHS. It's incredibly inspiring. He starts with an axe and a tree and makes some basic tools, a rake, dough bowl, shave horse, chair, etc. It's great stuff.

The most important thing is to be able to get a supply of green wood. Depending on where you live this could be challenging. Your best bet is to talk to local arborists and tree cutters, or check out any local yard waste disposal areas. If you live near any stare forests you may be able to talk to a forester about obtaining downed wood or trees marked for firewood- that's how I get all of my green wood.

Best of luck to you,

Josh

[Nathan Talbert]

Thanks a bunch Josh! Roy Underhill is a pretty unique guy. I'll look for some of his stuff on Amazon too. Finding green wood shouldn't be too big a problem. I live in Virginia Beach, and I have some friend who live in the country who wouldn't mind me taking some timber off their hands. Thanks again everyone!

[Darrell Bottoms]

Do you guy's know of any place on the web to find out more about green woodworking...I'm either not looking in the right place...or just haven't quite figured out the right method to search...

[Joshua Clark]

I don't know of any green woodworking specific web sites, but a lot of the woodworking sites do have some green woodworking content. The trick is finding it..

Popular Woodworking has some stuff from Don Weber, the Bodger, including this great video of him splitting a log http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/don_weber_why_split_wood_video/

You can also view any of Roy Underhill's shows from the past four seasons on PBS's website: http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/schedule/video.html

I also found this: http://www.woodworkingonline.com/category/green-woodworking/ I'm sure there is a lot of other stuff out there as well.

Josh

[Bob Glenn]

John Alexander has a book on green woodworking. Lots of info on line also.

[Darrell Bottoms]

Please excuse my ignorance.

I am reading this as literally working with "green" fresh wood?

[Chuck Nickerson]

Darrell - green woodworking is working with wood not yet dried to furniture grade, which is 8%. Because we're often often splitting the wood for our coarse cuts, we favor species that are easily split. The philosophy is captured in the title of Roy's recent book "Wedge and Edge". Michael Follansbee's site can give you some info.

Chuck

[James Owen]

Here are a few sites that you may find useful:
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http://www.living-wood.co.uk/

http://www.bodgers.org.uk/bb/phpBB2/index.php

http://treewright.blogspot.com/

http://www.bodgers.org.uk/index.php

http://www.robin-wood.co.uk/links.htm

http://www.markhancock.co.uk/

http://www.woodworking.co.uk/

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=25

http://www.bushcraftliving.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=31

http://www.stuartking.co.uk/index.php/chair-bodgers-of-buckinghamshire/
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You'll probably have to dig through the forum links to find the information you're looking for.

[Darrell Bottoms]

Sure appreciate the information and patience....You guy's are great.

I know so little about actual woodworking and am a bit excited about the aspect of green woodworking.

Time to spend some time researching the info/links.

Thanks!